Murder at the Cottage | Sky

gussieg

so what about the unknown intruder in the house as mentioned previously by the house keeper? or was it a cat? what bottle of wine? and the missing gate? i dont recall a mention of that either. most of these stories /theories/documentaries are notable by the absence of mr t de p, and other relevant parties.
and is it too late to do dna now or is the perpetrator already dead? who Knows? who indeed..

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

She was over at Xmas for a reason, that's the real clue, wasn't someone in the direct local vacinity

You think someone came all the way from France or some other country to kill her but used a stone and then a concrete block that just happened to be lying at an obscure location in a badly overgrown area of the garden?

monkeybutter

dark crystal wrote: »

With the Keystone Guards on the case, it appears whoever did it hasn't been caught, so they did, in fact, get clean away with murder.

The nature of the attack just doesn't seem planned to me - no weapons involved, just whatever was to hand. Looks more like a crime of passion or opportunity.

Maybe that was indeed the plan

MoonUnit75

SevenAte9 wrote: »

I think you should re-read the DPP's report.

First, IB was interviewed by a Garda Sergant on December 31st - no mention of marks on hands - not "first questioned a few weeks after the murder."

Secondly, from pg25 of the DPP's report;
Dr. Louise Barnes, a dermatologist (skin specialist) closely observed Bailey some five
days after the murder. She states “at no time, did he strike one as being suspicious.
As a keen observer of peoples appearance due to my profession I certainly did not
notice any marks or injuries to his face or hands.”
Denis O'Callaghan saw Bailey on 24 December 1996 (the day after the murder) and he
noticed multiple light scratches on Bailey's arms.
Such light scratches are not consistent with cuts by razor like thorns.
Richard Tisdall in his statement 190B recalls seeing scratch marks on one of Bailey's
hands on Sunday night 22 December 1996 (prior to the murder but after the cutting of
the tree and the killing of the turkeys)


Does it not strike you as odd that of the 44 page report, the entire forensic evidence was dealt with in 1 section on 1 page.

No one disputes he had scratches on his hands, he admits himself he had scratches on his hands, so Dr. Barnes' observations five days later are pointless. Sophie had a light night shirt on her, presuming the killer was warmly dressed on this cold night you would not expect scratches from briars to tear up a well dressed person in a similar way to someone in light night clothes.

There are multiple witnesses who said he had no obvious scratches on the night leading up to the murder, a couple of people close to him and one independent witness who claim to have seen scratches before the murder. These are the kind of inconsistencies that would be ironed out much, much better in the witness box than in a report.

Mackwiss

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

You think someone came all the way from France or some other country to kill her but used a stone and then a concrete block that just happened to be lying at an obscure location in a badly overgrown area of the garden?

This is actually a very good point. The place is in the middle of nowhere, so was the night cloudy? Moonless? Because if you need to walk to get the concrete block and hit here straight on there needs to be light. This got me thinking if the murder happened at the early hours instead of middle of the night? If this is the case the murder happened between probably 8 AM and the time the body was discovered?

Or the light from the headlights of a car illuminated the whole situation?

P.S. - To those that answered the previous questions about license plates. Thanks! So it should be an 80s registered vehicle?

fryup

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

You think someone came all the way from France or some other country to kill her but used a stone and then a concrete block that just happened to be lying at an obscure location in a badly overgrown area of the garden?

maybe not to kill her but to meet her, maybe rekindle an old friendship or relationship and was rebuffed

didn't one of her ex boyfriends have a fixation with her? stalking her in Paris? a certain Bruno Carbonnet?

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

You think someone came all the way from France or some other country to kill her but used a stone and then a concrete block that just happened to be lying at an obscure location in a badly overgrown area of the garden?

Jaysus I never said they came from France

dark crystal

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

You think someone came all the way from France or some other country to kill her but used a stone and then a concrete block that just happened to be lying at an obscure location in a badly overgrown area of the garden?

Exactly - this wasn't planned imo.

Another thing is that Sophie arrived alone in Ireland on 20th December. She was killed on the night of the 22nd, having planned to return to France on the 24th.

During her very brief stay, it was very unlikely she was with a companion, as her 2 day visit was quite well documented as having been in the local bar for tea and scones, shopping in the local boutique and taking a long solitary walk to the isolated castles by the lake, which she recounted to a friend in her home.

Whoever killed her only turned up sometime after she had visited the local bar earlier that day, the 22nd (sorry, not sure of the exact time she was there) and likely after she spoke to her husband on the phone that evening. Not much of an illicit rendezvous if her out-of-town-lover only decided to make an appearance for a mere 24 hours before she was to leave the country again and without as much as a phone call made beforehand.

Whoever killed her, knew where she lived alright, but I don't think she was expecting them.

MoonUnit75

fryup wrote: »

maybe not to kill her but to meet her, maybe rekindle an old friendship or relationship and was rebuffed

didn't one of her ex boyfriends have a fixation with her? stalking her in Paris? a certain Bruno Carbonnet?

He had a cast-iron alibi apparently.

gmisk

fryup wrote: »

maybe not to kill her but to meet her, maybe rekindle an old friendship or relationship and was rebuffed

didn't one of her ex boyfriends have a fixation with her? stalking her in Paris? a certain Bruno Carbonnet?

Bruno carbonnet was in France at an event with a tonne of witnesses it was mentioned in the first or second episode

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

No one disputes he had scratches on his hands, he admits himself he had scratches on his hands, so Dr. Barnes' observations five days later are pointless. Sophie had a light night shirt on her, presuming the killer was warmly dressed on this cold night you would not expect scratches from briars to tear up a well dressed person in a similar way to someone in light night clothes.

There are multiple witnesses who said he had no obvious scratches on the night leading up to the murder, a couple of people close to him and one independent witness who claim to have seen scratches before the murder. These are the kind of inconsistencies that would be ironed out much, much better in the witness box than in a report.

You iron these out before you go to court or you will get some bollicking from the judge

MoonUnit75

dark crystal wrote: »

Exactly - this wasn't planned imo.

Another thing is that Sophie arrived alone in Ireland on 20th December. She was killed on the night of the 22nd, having planned to return to France on the 24th.

During her very brief stay, it was very unlikely she was with a companion, as her 2 day visit was quite well documented as having been in the local bar for tea and scones, shopping in the local boutique and taking a long solitary walk to the isolated castles by the lake, which she recounted to a friend in her home.

Whoever killed her only turned up sometime after she had visited the local bar earlier that day, the 22nd (sorry, not sure of the exact time she was there) and likely after she spoke to her husband on the phone that evening. Not much of an illicit rendezvous if her out-of-town-lover only decided to make an appearance for a mere 24 hours before she was to leave the country again and without as much as a phone call made beforehand.

Whoever killed her, knew where she lived alright, but I don't think she was expecting them.

One interesting factoid noted by the gardai was that the small Fiesta hire car had the passenger seat pushed back almost all the way to accommodate a tall person. They felt it was unlikely the hire car company handed it over like this after it was valeted, makes sense not to obstruct the back seats like that.

dark crystal

Mackwiss wrote: »

This is actually a very good point. The place is in the middle of nowhere, so was the night cloudy? Moonless? Because if you need to walk to get the concrete block and hit here straight on there needs to be light.

As far as I remember, Ian Bailey mentioned that himself and Jules stopped the car on the way home from the bar that night to look at the full moon, so there was moonlight on the night. No idea if it was cloudy or not though.

fryup wrote: »

maybe not to kill her but to meet her, maybe rekindle an old friendship or relationship and was rebuffed

didn't one of her ex boyfriends have a fixation with her? stalking her in Paris? a certain Bruno Carbonnet?

It was mentioned he had an alibi - he was at an art expo somewhere in France for three days.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

One interesting factoid noted by the gardai was that the small Fiesta hire car had the passenger seat pushed back almost all the way to accommodate a tall person. They felt it was unlikely the hire car company handed it over like this after it was valeted, makes sense not to obstruct the back seats like that.

What position would they leave it in?

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

You iron these out before you go to court or you will get some bollicking from the judge

The gardai only have the statements to work with, it's up to a jury to figure out who is actually credible and the barristers to tease out who is able to stand over their statements. That's how it works. The DPP consistently discounted prosecution witnesses but likely defence witnesses are not criticised in the same manner.

fryup

who said it was a hire car?

dark crystal

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

One interesting factoid noted by the gardai was that the small Fiesta hire car had the passenger seat pushed back almost all the way to accommodate a tall person. They felt it was unlikely the hire car company handed it over like this after it was valeted, makes sense not to obstruct the back seats like that.

Was that Sophie's rental car?

I'm guessing they didn't do any DNA tests on it?

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

What position would they leave it in?

I've hired cars in at least 13 countries on average twice a year and have never been given a car with either seat pushed all the way back towards the back seat. Especially not in a compact car similar in size to a Fiesta. I normally throw a few bits and pieces, maps in the old days and tablets and the like these days, and would notice if the seat was set well back from the drivers position.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

The gardai only have the statements to work with, it's up to a jury to figure out who is actually credible and the barristers to tease out who is able to stand over their statements. That's how it works. The DPP consistently discounted prosecution witnesses but likely defence witnesses are not criticised in the same manner.

Because they didn't make fools of themselves

The dpp will indeed look at the witness statements

If all you have is two credible witnesses contradicting each other it won't move forward with the case

The only evidence to build a case on was Marie Farrell, once she fell you have no case

The dpp has the case files etc you have their report on them

MoonUnit75

fryup wrote: »

who said it was a hire car?

It was a hire car, it's in the witness statements as well. Alfie Lyons and another neighbour commented on it. The other neighbour said it was the first time they ever saw a hire car outside the house where Sophie had not come out to talk to them so it stuck out in their mind. I'm almost certain I read it was an Avis car.

MoonUnit75

dark crystal wrote: »

Was that Sophie's rental car?

I'm guessing they didn't do any DNA tests on it?

Yes, it was her hire car. I don't remember any mention of DNA tests on it, you'd think it would be obvious but this wasn't exactly a tight ship.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

I've hired cars in at least 13 countries on average twice a year and have never been given a car with either seat pushed all the way back towards the back seat. Especially not in a compact car similar in size to a Fiesta. I normally throw a few bits and pieces, maps in the old days and tablets and the like these days, and would notice if the seat was set well back from the drivers position.

I have, the chances of it happening in a compact car are even higher, it was where the last person to drive the car left it

Come on

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

I have, the chances of it happening in a compact car are even higher

Come on

Maybe you use an ultra budget hire company like Firefly? Sophie used a well respected outfit.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Maybe you use an ultra budget hire company like Firefly? Sophie used a well respected outfit.

Do they only hire short arses

Have you rented in Ireland? Cork airport

That's a strange amount of time to be spending noting the positions of car rental seats, driver and passenger

You should note she was only 4ft 11, so would have the seat very forward

FrankN1

Did they not do any DNA tests from the wine glasses?

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

Do they only hire short arses

Have you rented in Ireland? Cork airport

That's a strange amount of time to be spending noting the positions of car rental seats, driver and passenger

You should note she was only 4ft 11, so would have the seat very forward

Almost always at airports, I doubt I'm the only one with the same routine. I keep my phone holder, charging cables, tablet with emails etc. that I'll need etc. in my hand luggage, open the car, dig out all that stuff from the bag and throw it on the passenger seat. I'd notice if it was set well back sitting in to set up the phone charger etc. I'd have to get out to push it forward to keep stuff in easy reach. Never happened!

Yurt2

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Maybe you use an ultra budget hire company like Firefly? Sophie used a well respected outfit.

Supreme shade being thrown here. You use downmarket car rental agencies.

Lol.

MoonUnit75

Yurt! wrote: »

Supreme shade being thrown here. You use downmarket car rental agencies.

Lol.

Not my best work, but your appreciation is noted.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Mackwiss wrote: »

This is actually a very good point. The place is in the middle of nowhere, so was the night cloudy? Moonless?

the night of the murder was a full moon. that was a huge part of the podcast but wasn't even mentioned in the sky show. ian bailey used to be seen by neighbours howling at full moons. they obviously chalked him down as a weirdo when they saw that.

a huge part of the podcast that they never mentioned is jule's interview when she was arrested. in the garda transcript of the interview (not recorded... written up by a guard) jules says they drove to a lookout point that night and ian pointed out the flickering light in sophie's house and said something bad is going to happen to her tonight in the full moon!

jules claimed she never said that in the interview. and if it wasn't mentioned in the sky doc, I guess they must believe her.

so either
1) it's true and ian said it
2) the guards had no problem throwing a complete lie into an official interview to stitch up their guy

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Almost always at airports, I doubt I'm the only one with the same routine. I keep my phone holder, charging cables, tablet with emails etc. that I'll need etc. in my hand luggage, open the car, dig out all that stuff from the bag and throw it on the passenger seat. I'd notice if it was set well back sitting in to set up the phone charger etc. I'd have to get out to push it forward to keep stuff in easy reach. Never happened!

I have to say I doubt your recollection across 26 separate events and 13 years