Employers struggling to fill positions with hundreds of thousands unemployed

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a huge difference between PUP and dole. PUP was/is a flat rate emergency payment for workers who find themselves unable to work due to pandemic. Checks were not made unless glaring issues arose, due to DSP staff working from home etc. Checks are being made now and bogus claims will be weeded out.

Dole has numerous extras, from medical card to rent support to hardship payments for communions, confirmations etc

true, but the truth is, the dole simply isn't enough to truly survive on, the fact that the dole was almost doubled for new recipients(pup claimants), over night, clearly shows this. once again, a significant proportion of pup money went straight back into the economy, i.e. an increase in welfare payments would more than likely have the same outcome, as very little would probably be saved or used to service debts, increasing economic activities and creating jobs

ineedeuro

Wanderer78 wrote: »

true, but the truth is, the dole simply isn't enough to truly survive on, the fact that the dole was almost doubled for new recipients(pup claimants), over night, clearly shows this. once again, a significant proportion of pup money went straight back into the economy, i.e. an increase in welfare payments would more than likely have the same outcome, as very little would probably be saved or used to service debts, increasing economic activities and creating jobs

You just want to increase the social welfare state we already are cultivating? You have career social welfare people and it is growing yearly. No interest in getting a job or ever getting a job.

Increase in social welfare will just drive this number up and start a bigger wedge between people working and not working

Wanderer78

ineedeuro wrote: »

You just want to increase the social welfare state we already are cultivating? You have career social welfare people and it is growing yearly. No interest in getting a job or ever getting a job.

Increase in social welfare will just drive this number up and start a bigger wedge between people working and not working

nope, and we actually dont have a welfare state, as most citizens of working age actually work, strangely enough!

you may also need to revise your statement on growing year to year, graph supplied....

once again, long term unemployment is actually extremely complex

once again, a significant proportion of pup money went straight back into the economy, as this money was spent, i.e. it ended up in the bank accounts of private sector businesses by doing so, keeping these businesses open and maintaining the jobs created by these business owners

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

true, but the truth is, the dole simply isn't enough to truly survive on, the fact that the dole was almost doubled for new recipients(pup claimants), over night, clearly shows this. once again, a significant proportion of pup money went straight back into the economy, i.e. an increase in welfare payments would more than likely have the same outcome, as very little would probably be saved or used to service debts, increasing economic activities and creating jobs

The dole should be for people who really need it.

Anyone who is able to work but won't, should get max 50 quid a week.

We pay far too much welfare in this country.

Dempo1

6 wrote: »

Let's see when the dole replaces PUP will there be as much job snobbery.

If there is we'll just import workers. Then you will have people moaning about people taking our jobs etc

So 6, here's 6 things to consider

Job snobbery as you put it not at all the issue, People have sensibly moved on, particularly from the sectors who've been moaning the loudest.

The "Concerned" employers now wishing to fill rolls had the option of retaining staff on wage subsidy schemes, instead they dropped them like bad habits.

The sector most vocal (Hospitality) is only opening today, and at less than a 3rd of capacity, this will equate to less than half the staff actually required, it's simple economics.

Despite ample evidence there is not widespread refusal to return to work, some persist in promoting a false narrative. Besides, there's equal amounts of evidence people actually applying for rolls being ignored and not so much as an SMS sent to acknowledge applications.

There's also evidence of a concerted effort to go further a field to hire staff, not because of desperation but because employers foolishly believe they can get cheaper staff with reduced terms and conditions, one little tit bit they are not factoring in is accommodation, both none existant and horrendously expensive.

Finally there's also serious and genuine hesitancy regrading the actual viability of many of the very businesses moaning. If you we're inclined, say to return to a hotel /bar/ restaurant job, one thing that must be playing on the mind is what happens in 3, 4 months time. The Hospitality sector is changed, perhaps not forever, but certainly for a few years to come. I know the business and I've absolutely no doubt few will survive and for those that do their business model forever changed.

It's not Job Snobbery, it's Job security

Wanderer78

6 wrote: »

The dole should be for people who really need it.

Anyone who is able to work but won't, should get max 50 quid a week.

We pay far too much welfare in this country.

so who is the judge that decides people can or cant work, is this person you?

so you d like to reduce the money supply to the economy, thus reducing economic activities, potentially forcing businesses to close, i.e. potentially increasing unemployment? and you d like to reduce the ability of people being able to provide the essentials such as food etc, potentially forcing them into criminality to do so?

once again, as soon as the wee virus came along, the dole was almost doubled for new recipients over night...............

do you folks even think about what you say, at all!

Dempo1

6 wrote: »

The dole should be for people who really need it.

Anyone who is able to work but won't, should get max 50 quid a week.

We pay far too much welfare in this country.

Now your just being silly and absurd

enricoh

Wanderer78 wrote: »

true, but the truth is, the dole simply isn't enough to truly survive on, the fact that the dole was almost doubled for new recipients(pup claimants), over night, clearly shows this. once again, a significant proportion of pup money went straight back into the economy, i.e. an increase in welfare payments would more than likely have the same outcome, as very little would probably be saved or used to service debts, increasing economic activities and creating jobs

Someone better tell the northern Irish dole office that that e205 isn't enough to live on. It's iirc 70stg a week up there!
Somewhat related every second fella on sites here in the north east is a nordie- I wonder why?!
Can't the nordie assembly not double the dole so these lads don't have to work!

SnuggyBear

I'm leaving the hotel I'm in for another hotel. They were almost on their knees to keep me. Oh you suddenly have all this extra money to offer me?

Wanderer78

enricoh wrote: »

Someone better tell the northern Irish dole office that that e205 isn't enough to live on. It's iirc 70stg a week up there!
Somewhat related every second fella on sites here in the north east is a nordie- I wonder why?!
Can't the nordie assembly not double the dole so these lads don't have to work!

....and have a chat to those that have had to experience long term unemployment in the uk, you ll actually find cash in hand jobs are common, along side criminal behavior!

rolling boh

Am pretty sure a sizeable number on welfare have another income so are doing OK on the welfare and the extra money that comes their way no need for them to take up full time work that is been offered at the moment .

jrosen

The pandemic has highlighted to many, including myself how little job security we have. Industries like retail, personal services and hospitality have little to no benefits. The pay is generally low, no health benefits, no overtime rates, no sick pay, no maternity pay, no pension contributions.

It was difficult to get on any courses I looked at over the pandemic, they were heavily booked up. I would imagine there are alot of people who have seen they can get better jobs, with better pay and conditions working less ****ty hours.

If employers want to keep their staff, better pay and conditions will be a good place to start.

Dempo1

rolling boh wrote: »

Am pretty sure a sizeable number on welfare have another income so are doing OK on the welfare and the extra money that comes their way no need for them to take up full time work that is been offered at the moment .

More sillyness unless your referring to those on certain welfare payments LIGITIMATELY entitled to earn a limited additional income??

Dempo1

jrosen wrote: »

The pandemic has highlighted to many, including myself how little job security we have. Industries like retail, personal services and hospitality have little to no benefits. The pay is generally low, no health benefits, no overtime rates, no sick pay, no maternity pay, no pension contributions.

It was difficult to get on any courses I looked at over the pandemic, they were heavily booked up. I would imagine there are alot of people who have seen they can get better jobs, with better pay and conditions working less ****ty hours.

If employers want to keep their staff, better pay and conditions will be a good place to start.

Well said

TefalBrain

Basic economics and capitalism. Pay people a decent wage and they'll work for you, don't and they won't.

Dempo1

enricoh wrote: »

Someone better tell the northern Irish dole office that that e205 isn't enough to live on. It's iirc 70stg a week up there!
Somewhat related every second fella on sites here in the north east is a nordie- I wonder why?!
Can't the nordie assembly not double the dole so these lads don't have to work!

Apples and Oranges (no pun intended) comes to mind, their systems completely different, you should do some research, incidentally NI per captita compared to the Mainland UK has by far the most generous welfare supports and I might ADD this has caused quite some angst in the UK.

Anyway why drag NI into this thread, completely irrelevant.

Dempo1

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I'm leaving the hotel I'm in for another hotel. They were almost on their knees to keep me. Oh you suddenly have all this extra money to offer me?

You've got me thinking, I've 30+ years experience in most departments, would your old job take my arm off if I send a resume

ineedeuro

jrosen wrote: »

The pandemic has highlighted to many, including myself how little job security we have. Industries like retail, personal services and hospitality have little to no benefits. The pay is generally low, no health benefits, no overtime rates, no sick pay, no maternity pay, no pension contributions.

It was difficult to get on any courses I looked at over the pandemic, they were heavily booked up. I would imagine there are alot of people who have seen they can get better jobs, with better pay and conditions working less ****ty hours.

If employers want to keep their staff, better pay and conditions will be a good place to start.

Really? I signed up for a course last week without any issue. Loads of space left and the entire course can be done remotely.

As soon as I downloaded the brochure someone from the college contacted me to talk over what was available and how I could sign up. Excellent service.

I haven't read the previous 8 pages. But on page one people were saying, better raise the minimum wage then as if that's a magic bullet, introduced in a vacuum.

Go back to the 90s and €10.20 would be very good income. Raise the minimum wage and other factors will kick in like inflation. Minimum wage type work can only be valued higher in the short term everything will equalise back fairly quickly.

Wanderer78

rolling boh wrote: »

Am pretty sure a sizeable number on welfare have another income so are doing OK on the welfare and the extra money that comes their way no need for them to take up full time work that is been offered at the moment .

...and what would your proof be of this certainty?

jrosen wrote: »

The pandemic has highlighted to many, including myself how little job security we have. Industries like retail, personal services and hospitality have little to no benefits. The pay is generally low, no health benefits, no overtime rates, no sick pay, no maternity pay, no pension contributions.

It was difficult to get on any courses I looked at over the pandemic, they were heavily booked up. I would imagine there are alot of people who have seen they can get better jobs, with better pay and conditions working less ****ty hours.

If employers want to keep their staff, better pay and conditions will be a good place to start.

yes, covid yet again has proven that precariousness of employment is now an extremely serious problem, particularly for younger generations, couple that with growing precariousness of critical needs such as housing and accommodation, and you have an extremely serious problem brewing!

zerosugarbuzz

is_that_so wrote: »

As I said there are some who will do so and some of my anecdotes contradict your anecdotes. How did you manage to get begrudgery out of my post?

I got the bedrudgery from your resentment and belief that people are staying on PUP when they don't need to. And the fact that you believe it is a lot of money for people to recieve, despite the fact that it is not even at minimum wage levels. Bare in mind all of those people were tax payers into the system, when all these lockdowns were imposed on them and the rest of us.

ineedeuro

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and what would your proof be of this certainty?

Check your local facebook group. You have loads of people offering services "cash in hand". Gardening, cleaning, carpentry etc etc etc. Majority of the local rubbish collection services are people on social, the people that dump all over the country side once they collect from your house

Also you will find a lot of the local child minding services are ladies who are on social welfare and minding children from home. It's hardly a secret, everyone knows it is going on. I was even told by one child minder the social dont care because they know people can't afford creche etc so this is way out for a lot of people

Dempo1

ineedeuro wrote: »

Really? I signed up for a course last week without any issue. Loads of space left and the entire course can be done remotely.

As soon as I downloaded the brochure someone from the college contacted me to talk over what was available and how I could sign up. Excellent service.

Last week? The post your referring too suggests applications made over the pandemic, not recently? I spoke to many people during the pandemic who found it very difficult to get on courses, I'm not being critical but obviously availability has improved somewhat recently

Wanderer78

ineedeuro wrote: »

Check your local facebook group. You have loads of people offering services "cash in hand". Gardening, cleaning, carpentry etc etc etc

Also you will find a lot of the local child minding services are ladies who are on social welfare and minding children from home. It's hardly a secret, everyone knows it is going on. I was even told by one child minder the social dont care because they know people can't afford creche etc so this is way out for a lot of people

...im not on facebook, so you ll have to try harder!

....so if that is the case, is welfare actually enough, again considering the immediacy of the almost doubling of pup literally overnight?

The idea that minimum wage is a significant factor in overall inflation is always worth challenging.

3DataModem

The situation in the US (which has a fairly liquid labor market) is that companies are increasing wages and benefits at the bottom end to get staff post-pandemic. This is exactly how the market should work.

I have previously repeated the "high min wage causes job losses" opinion but that's just my aversion to government interference (and I suspect many others too), and is really only applicable for a very niche set of circumstances.

TefalBrain

ineedeuro wrote: »

Check your local facebook group. You have loads of people offering services "cash in hand". Gardening, cleaning, carpentry etc etc etc. Majority of the local rubbish collection services are people on social, the people that dump all over the country side once they collect from your house

Also you will find a lot of the local child minding services are ladies who are on social welfare and minding children from home. It's hardly a secret, everyone knows it is going on. I was even told by one child minder the social dont care because they know people can't afford creche etc so this is way out for a lot of people

Well if it's on Facebook it must be true....

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea that minimum wage is a significant factor in overall inflation is always worth challenging.

let the central banks know if you find this inflation, as theyre also looking for it!

I hope those very worried about low income individuals avoiding taxes and living off govt handouts are similarly exercised by the defaulters list every year.

Mainly farmers, small business owners on it as i recall.

SnuggyBear

TefalBrain wrote: »

Well if it's on Facebook it must be true....

Infairness it's well known that there is a lot of cash in working going on.

ineedeuro

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...im not on facebook, so you ll have to try harder!

....so if that is the case, is welfare actually enough, again considering the immediacy of the almost doubling of pup literally overnight?

I would suggest joining facebook so at least you can keep up with activities on the local area. Lots of excellent community activities going on all over Ireland, was lovely to see. You do realise just because you have facebook you don't have to plaster your life all over it? as a means of communication in a community it is an excellent tool

The old saying goes 'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'

Wanderer78

ineedeuro wrote: »

I would suggest joining facebook so at least you can keep up with activities on the local area. Lots of excellent community activities going on all over Ireland, was lovely to see. You do realise just because you have facebook you don't have to plaster your life all over it?

The old saying goes 'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'

thank you, but ive life to be living, i stay in touch by other means, thankfully some groups pages are open to the public, i spend too much time on the internets anyway, tis all good

ineedeuro

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thank you, but ive life to be living, i stay in touch by other means, thankfully some groups pages are open to the public, i spend too much time on the internets anyway, tis all good

So you do use facebook? that was a fairly pointless exchange if you knew in the first place what I was talking about?

Wanderer78

ineedeuro wrote: »

So you do use facebook? that was a fairly pointless exchange if you knew in the first place what I was talking about?

im not a member of it, couldnt be arsed, couldnt be arsed looking for pointless posts either, ive limited time anyway, ive stuff to be doing. facebook is used to find particular information, most information doesnt seem to be information at all on it, a lot of bullsh1t on it, by the looks of it

rolling boh

Anybody who is just getting welfare all above board will not sustain any sort of lifestyle with much comfort in the long term so they will have to get extra cash .For a lot who work in low paid jobs dole and a cash in hand job here and there they will be better off .

zerosugarbuzz

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't read the previous 8 pages. But on page one people were saying, better raise the minimum wage then as if that's a magic bullet, introduced in a vacuum.

Go back to the 90s and €10.20 would be very good income. Raise the minimum wage and other factors will kick in like inflation. Minimum wage type work can only be valued higher in the short term everything will equalise back fairly quickly.

Go back to the 90's when a young couple in their 20's could buy a 3 bedroomed house inside the M50 relatively easily.

enricoh

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....and have a chat to those that have had to experience long term unemployment in the uk, you ll actually find cash in hand jobs are common, along side criminal behavior!

Just as well with our high dole rates in Ireland case in hand jobs are uncommon and criminal behavior almost non existent!!

Wanderer78

enricoh wrote: »

Just as well with our high dole rates in Ireland case in hand jobs are uncommon and criminal behavior almost non existent!!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/


...anymore bullsh1t now folks!

LillySV

Dempo1 wrote: »

Your determination to smear is palpable and embarrassing.

Not only phone calls made, letters continously sent, Log in locations to mywelfare accounts (IP addresses etc), visits to addresses, cross referencing with Revenue and indeed work place visits by SW inspectors. I've clearly said there have and will be abuses but you fail to understand 10"s of thousands of claims suspended, closed and surely you've seen numerous arrests and criminal charges which have been well publicised.

This emergency payment was brought in literally over night, of course it was open to abuse and I might add not the only abuse/frauds that have occurred during this pandemic. Over 800k availed of the PUP scheme at some stage but you paint a picture of rampant fraud, this is factually incorrect.

U haven’t a clue of what your talking about ... visits by inspectors to addresses... they weren’t allowed! Thousands of claims suspended and loads of arrests for it... u serious... I think you are watching too much magnum pi or something

When pup payment first started it was paid out in a rush, anyone who applied got it... then awhile later they applied afew checks, including cross referencing revenue records to see if they actually had been working ...a lot of claims were then closed as they found they hadn’t been..

What I’m on about is the large number of people who did qualify while in Ireland but then left Ireland and continued to receive pup since then ... and have no intention to stop their payment or look for work while they happy out on a relative fortune while in their own country ... can’t blame them... the govt paid out a figure that was probably higher than what they had been getting after tax and definitely after cost of travel and crèches costs etc

There had been afew checks started at airports last year to catch some but the dept was vilified in the press at time for it and your govt hadn’t the neck to take on our pc police so very little checks since .

Dept can’t check customers bank info to see where it’s being collected ... as regards checks to where people logged on ... why would they need to log on .. they’re already set up in payment amd they’re not being touched ... and if they ever did have to , I’m sure vpn will sort that

LillySV

Wanderer78 wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/


...anymore bullsh1t now folks!

Ireland got a lot better at hiding their unemployment figures so would take those figures with a pinch of salt .... anyone that’s on back to work, back to education , lone parents , community employment etc are not included in those figures ... i would expect pup is included though ...

Dempo1

LillySV wrote: »

U haven’t a clue of what your talking about ... visits by inspectors to addresses... they weren’t allowed! Thousands of claims suspended and loads of arrests for it... u serious... I think you are watching too much magnum pi or something

When pup payment first started it was paid out in a rush, anyone who applied got it... then awhile later they applied afew checks, including cross referencing revenue records to see if they actually had been working ...a lot of claims were then closed as they found they hadn’t been..

What I’m on about is the large number of people who did qualify while in Ireland but then left Ireland and continued to receive pup since then ... and have no intention to stop their payment or look for work while they happy out on a relative fortune while in their own country ... can’t blame them... the govt paid out a figure that was probably higher than what they had been getting after tax and definitely after cost of travel and crèches costs etc

There had been afew checks started at airports last year to catch some but the dept was vilified in the press at time for it and your govt hadn’t the neck to take on our pc police so very little checks since .

Dept can’t check customers bank info to see where it’s being collected ... as regards checks to where people logged on ... why would they need to log on .. they’re already set up in payment amd they’re not being touched ... and if they ever did have to , I’m sure vpn will sort that

I think if you look at my posts on this thread you'll actually learn I do actually have a clue, but more importantly an objective understanding of what PUP is. I don't subscribe to the SW bashing mantra you clearly revel in and it's really quite disturbing. So I won't continue to engage with your bile and utterly incomprehensible arguments.

Banana Republic 1

6 wrote: »

The dole should be for people who really need it.

Anyone who is able to work but won't, should get max 50 quid a week.

We pay far too much welfare in this country.

Begrudging arrogance is the worst kind.

Eric Cartman

The PUP needs to be clamped down on, its very clear that there is a national crisis of work ethic, many would rather sit on their arse getting handouts than earn their money. This really does explain why the left does so well in irish politics.

But even socialist countries needed waiters and bin men so something will have to be done

Smee_Again

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The PUP needs to be clamped down on, its very clear that there is a national crisis of work ethic, many would rather sit on their arse getting handouts than earn their money. This really does explain why the left does so well in irish politics.

But even socialist countries needed waiters and bin men so something will have to be done

And that thing is to pay those waiters a liveable wage.

am_zarathustra

People have been banging that drum for decades and it never happens. Different jobs simply appear, think of the rise in entertainment etc

RandomViewer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The PUP needs to be clamped down on, its very clear that there is a national crisis of work ethic, many would rather sit on their arse getting handouts than earn their money. This really does explain why the left does so well in irish politics.

But even socialist countries needed waiters and bin men so something will have to be done

PUP numbers have dropped , people have found other jobs and hospitality jobs offering 10-20 hours over 7 days aren't going to get many takers, employers need to work with SW to ensure no one is going to be worse off,

enricoh

Dempo1 wrote: »

Apples and Oranges (no pun intended) comes to mind, their systems completely different, you should do some research, incidentally NI per captita compared to the Mainland UK has by far the most generous welfare supports and I might ADD this has caused quite some angst in the UK.

Anyway why drag NI into this thread, completely irrelevant.

So for example a hotelier down south has to increase wages to convince staff to come back to work. They're on the pup e350 n now the government is paying the vast majority of their rent on hap. No biggie this summer to pay extra, come November it's a different story.
The hotelier up north is competing with 70stg versus e350 down here.
Why drag NI into the thread? completely irrelevant you say. Our cost base and prices rise again like in the tiger and we'll have tons of shoppers heading north again, weekends away up north etc etc.

Dempo1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The PUP needs to be clamped down on, its very clear that there is a national crisis of work ethic, many would rather sit on their arse getting handouts than earn their money. This really does explain why the left does so well in irish politics.

But even socialist countries needed waiters and bin men so something will have to be done

O dear God, Clamped down, you make it seem if PUP was illegal, cop on. Telling your opinion of Binman "even socialist countries need them", what does that actually mean, mother of God, Tulips came out 2 months ago

RandomViewer

enricoh wrote: »

So for example a hotelier down south has to increase wages to convince staff to come back to work. They're on the pup e350 n now the government is paying the vast majority of their rent on hap. No biggie this summer to pay extra, come November it's a different story.
The hotelier up north is competing with 70stg versus e350 down here.
Why drag NI into the thread? completely irrelevant you say. Our cost base and prices rise again like in the tiger and we'll have tons of shoppers heading north again, weekends away up north etc etc.

Don't think you qualify for HAP on PUP, it's not a means tested payment, 350 is the upper rate ,anyone who was working part time will be on lower rates,

Dempo1

enricoh wrote: »

So for example a hotelier down south has to increase wages to convince staff to come back to work. They're on the pup e350 n now the government is paying the vast majority of their rent on hap. No biggie this summer to pay extra, come November it's a different story.
The hotelier up north is competing with 70stg versus e350 down here.
Why drag NI into the thread? completely irrelevant you say. Our cost base and prices rise again like in the tiger and we'll have tons of shoppers heading north again, weekends away up north etc etc.

Again, what has a hotel in NI got to do with the argument, why would an Irish PAYE worker decide to work in a UK employment system, are you suggesting PUP recepients from the hotel sector be extradited across the border to fill positions? For the record, the UK has 130k current vacancies in the hospitality sector that can't be filled, just reported on last week, is that the fault of PUP??????????