Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724875#Comment_119724875

In most US states (i.e. California) questioning vaccines is equal to an unprofessional conduct and yields loosing a license to practice. What that means is that anybody who provides information that contradicts the contemporary scientific consensus and is contrary to the standard of care is risking their employment and future career. A great deterrent for many healthcare professionals from speaking out as many have mentioned.

You say that it is already being questioned. That should not be a surprise. Where is it questioned and by whom?

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724515#Comment_119724515

The safety of vaccines has been questioned by a number of sources at this point. It is yet another promise of a vaccine that slowly comes to an end and people are waking up to it.

We are still not there when it comes to having a transparent discussion on this and pretty much anybody who voices their concerns is swiftly labeled an anti-vaxxer. Yet it has nothing to do with being pro or against the vaccine, but with critical thinking and using vaccines when appropriate instead of as 'good for all'.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725049#Comment_119725049

Its very hard to have a transparent discussion. For some reason it draws in posters who like calling people names.

Imagine grown up professionals in a debate calling each other names, well it's unimaginable.

So it's plain to see that the name caller's are neither professional or mature.

So when that antivaxxer is met with a provaxxer response then you'll be called a whatever.

Ignoring anyone who calls people antivaxxers is the only way. That sieve's the wheat from the chaff.

ddarcy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724931#Comment_119724931

Like your use of extremes here. California is as far left as Florida is right. Why hasn’t Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas surgeon generals come out? They’re not being quashed as you say above. That’s the fun thing with evidence, if more come out then it builds a stronger case.

i agree the deeply liberal states won’t like this discussion, but there’s far more conservative states. Where are they? Like I said earlier the Florida Surgeon general has form. He was solely appointed because he is in line with governor of floridas views (basically free for all method to Covid). He should be questioned on it. And most people will look at his evidence and make decisions on it. Obviously won’t happen in some quarters, but like I said above, surely Florida is not the only state seeking this. Or does this suit agendas with the governor of the state

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716500#Comment_119716500

"The vaccines aren't drugs" - what word would you use? medication? therapy?

"completely leave the body within days" .......... you have some reference for this?

From what I have read this is false. It was a claim by the manufacturer (repeated by others) which has been shown to be untrue by different studies, whose results are generally accepted.

Johnboy1951

Florida is hardly the only place to take a different, to narrative, view on vaccines for Covid-19.

A couple of European countries have also limited injections to specific cohorts. Denmark comes to mind immediately

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/denmark-ends-covid-vaccinations-for-981

Yes, I have confirmed with a Danish friend that the information is correct.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725215#Comment_119725215

As far as I've always believed is the vaccines are for people who are elderly, immunocompromised and people who's immune system is shot.

It gives them a boost of immunity.

98%+ of people don't need them. Their immune systems will fight the virus adequately.

From early on in the pandemic we were told most of us will have symptoms but won't get sick.

It's a fact.

Why vaccinate yourself for something to protect someone else from something they're vaccinated against anyhow, is anybody's guess.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725138#Comment_119725138

For the same reason why nobody before Nicolaus Copernicus came up with the idea of heliocentrism. People have warmed up to his believes after a while though. Let's wait and see.

astrofool

Bloody hell, can an anti-vaxxer thread be created again, the inmates are running the asylum at the moment.

(it does seem to have spread beyond the Covid vaccines as well).

Happy to have this post deleted.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725147#Comment_119725147

They're vaccines, if you want another word for some reason, medication probably covers everything that a doctor or nurse prescribes.

Numerous independent studies into vaccines show no remaining elements days after vaccination occurs, all that remains is the immune system response to the vaccine (antibodies and immune cell memory).

Show the studies that say otherwise (remembering this was in response to an ill-informed rant from another poster about dosing).

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725652#Comment_119725652

mRNA detected in breast milk:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2796427?guestAccessKey=1c13d17c-1c25-4828-b261-9f321e5126a1&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social_jamapeds&utm_term=7701881843&utm_campaign=article_alert&linkId=183092079

Also a study in rodents, mRNA levels were detected in the heart, lung, testis, and brain tissues, indicating tissue biodistribution: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168365915300535?via%3Dihub

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725215#Comment_119725215

Thats the way I think it will evolve here. It's kinda happening already. 50+ cohort will be strongly encouraged to get the covid and flu vaccines every year. It will be available to the rest but I wouldn't see a large take-up or push. I doubt HSE or parents will be pushing it on children (from memory only 22% of 5-11 year olds were vaccinated).

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724474#Comment_119724474

The number of cardiac related events being tracked for 18-39 males in 42... which suggest a small set of data to work with.

The study says:

Increased risk in the primary analysis for the 25 - 39 age group was based on a small sample size. 

But here is also an important point from the study:

In the 28 days following vaccination, no increase in risk was observed for all-cause deaths.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725670#Comment_119725670

Your study proved what I said that it leaves the body within days, certainly by the time of the second dose, did you even read it?

No vaccine mRNA was detected in prevaccination or postvaccination EBM samples beyond 48 hours of collection. Also, no COVID-19 vaccine mRNA was detected in the EBM fat fraction or the EBM cell pellets.

Exact same with the rodent study (though it is from ~7 years ago when they were figuring out the right dosages for Lipid-Nano Particles, which was informed by studies like this).

intravenous and intraperitoneal and to a lesser extent intramuscular and intratracheal deliveries led to trafficking of mRNA-LNPs systemically resulting in active translation of the mRNA in the liver for 1–4 days. Our results demonstrate that LNPs are appropriate carriers for mRNA in vivo and have the potential to become valuable tools for delivering mRNA encoding therapeutic proteins.

Kudos on finding one of the studies that anti-vaxxers were sharing on twitter back in Summer 2020 during COVID vaccine trials.

Given the study results you yourself provided, you can now retract your position.

(and if you're really scared of mRNA for other make believe reasons, Novavax is also an option)

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725671#Comment_119725671

This has always been the case, colleges and schools also run flu vaccine drives depending on prevalence (which in the future will likely include COVID vaccines, though we'll see what happens after the bi-valent vaccine rolls out, SARS-COV2 doesn't seem to be as mutagenic as the flu, for now anyway).

ceadaoin.

Why do people continue to insist on looking at the vaccine through the lens of politics? The Florida surgeon General is an anti vax far right loon, but Denmark and Sweden also have more restrictive guidelines on who should be vaccinated. Denmark officials came out and stated outright that it was a mistake to vaccinate children. Why are those countries not labeled in a similar fashion?

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726075#Comment_119726075

Maybe the antivaxxers were quoting this back when we were told mRNA vaccine stayed in the injection site muscle?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726156#Comment_119726156

Did they say it was a mistake?

Or did they say, if we had known then what we know now about Omicron, we would not have done so?

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725652#Comment_119725652

Ah, a misunderstanding on my part.

So you said the initial substance of the injection does not stay around for any appreciable length of time, but I was thinking of the effect of that substance - the spike proteins - remaining in the body for months after injection of the medication.

I guess it is hardly surprising the spike protein is present for a long time as the injection essentially causes the body to produce these proteins and there apparently is no 'off switch' or 'timed death' to the process.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726702#Comment_119726702

https://youtu.be/8nD6Q9X0SFw

Note at the end of the segment, how they say the vaccines will neutralize and destroy the virus before you even get a chance to become sick.

Unfortunately nearly everyone I know who were vaccinated became sick.

As for conventional vaccines, well they definitely have a better standard than the mRNA vaccines.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726819#Comment_119726819

The "conventional" COVID vaccine has a far worse efficacy and higher infection rate than the mRNA vaccines (Sinopharm/vax) so that's another anti-vax talking point squished. Novavax is the next nearest conventional vaccine albeit using new tech for the adjuvant, efficacy also not as high as mRNA (but close).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726163#Comment_119726163

Did you think it seeped back out of the muscle through the skin somehow, or just stayed there forever like a tattoo? Honestly, explain the mechanism you think you were told about.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726819#Comment_119726819

mRNA vaccines create neutralizing antibodies which prevent infection of the mucuous membrane. These only stick around for a period of months. Also they are not a perfect match for Omicron strain. After that the vaccine still has an effect through long lasting cells in the immune system which are there to respond and protect against severe infection ie stop it reaching the lungs.

The neutralizing antibodies from non-mRNA vaccines fade at a faster rate than mRNA ones.

The neutralizing antibodies from previous covid infection also fade, but at the slowest rate.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724875#Comment_119724875

Exactly ddarcy . Even the study raises questions about confounders which skew the results. And say more study is needed before any real conclusions can be drawn .

That Ladapo guy has been railing with de Santis all along and is probably responsible for the high numbers who never got vaccinated in Florida , and subsequently died .

Shame some people don't actually read the actual research before they post the headline articles !

Was waiting to see who would be the first ...and he ( @walus ) didn't disappoint !

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727443#Comment_119727443

Unsure why you are specifically saying this about mRNA... you havent shown any way non mRNA are superior.

Against the virus strain they were developed to target they did work as intended.

Given the timelines of development they are working astonishingly well against a new virus and still show effectiveness against severe covid against new variants. Their protection against delta variant was also remarkably good.

If we were told in march 2020 we would have vaccines such as these we would have taken it as a win, hands down.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727625#Comment_119727625

The pharma industry watered down their efficiency, and people didn't want to admit they took something that didn't work in stopping covid.

It's like being a kid in December and finding your Christmas present from Santa in the loft, but hoping father Christmas will come anyway.

You believe what you like, but I think more and more people have the honesty to know the difference.

Goldengirl

@bad2thebone do you think you and some others here are testament to "critical thinking and maturity"?

When calling others names, and not reading others posts, and links to data properly, but repeating misinformation, is the stock in trade of quite a few posting here, on your side of the argument, I would respectfully say that we are not the ones who need to examine our consciences.

The vaccine has protected against transmission by greatly reducing infection, before Omicron. The new bivalent vaccine should make a difference to this variant.

Its not so much a failure of the older vaccine now but the success of the Covid virus mutating to evade immunity.

It has even evolved to evade antibody treatments which worked for immunocompromised people who became infected before.

There is only one monoclonal antibody working against Omicton in use atm. Others are in development but it is an uphill battle.

The only thing keeping vulnerable people safe now is vaccination even if more limited than previously and the lucky fact that this variant is causing less severe infection in those who are vaccinated generally.

Your memory of what happened earlier in the pandemic is deeply flawed or you are choosing to ignore / rewrite history. People who were not vaccinated or who had only one dose during the vaccine rollout were dying in their thousands following infection with Covid. All ages, more so from 44 up but nonetheless younger people who should never have become that ill.

By your repeating that Covid was not a problem to so many, you are laughing in the face of those whose relatives died. Or those who are still suffering illness as a result of that earlier infection.

While you type your misinformation on the thread who do you think you are helping with this?

Nobody is forcing you or your family to take a vaccine. Do what you like.

But lay off the villification of posters who agree with the science, and not a mish mash of invective and ill informed rants based on nothing more than baseless and unvouched opinions.

I wouldn't be asking others about honesty, if I were you.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726819#Comment_119726819

I am surprised to see a date of July 2021 for that video.

It was well known by then that the mRNA injections did not prevent the recipient from getting sick. Strange that it is allowed to remain available considering the huge efforts made to eliminate 'mis' and 'dis' information.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119728190#Comment_119728190

A lot of posters have already dicested the so called science by showing up all it's failings. Failure that have been pointed out by other scientists.

You then went off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the subject matter and got personal with the poster and other posters, that's where you lost your argument.

Suggesting that I'm laughing in the face of people who were really sick or died because of covid is a very cold and calculating opinion.

You say I'm posting misinformation and it's unhelpful, I'm not here to be unhelpful or mislead anyone.

I think you're being mislead with your personal attack. And are reading my post's upsidedown or backwards .

Anyhow getting personal with a poster just derails the thread. If you want to discuss the topic with me, leave out your opinion on what you think I think, or doing my thinking for me and regurgitating it it in a way that'll imply that I'm not posting in good faith.

Have a nice day.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119728100#Comment_119728100

I have several times now replied to what I thought were genuine questions you asked. Each time you reply making zero attempt to engage with the points and questions made to you.

You continue believing what you like, but next time you "just ask a question" don't be surprised if there's no answer.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119728870#Comment_119728870

People are allowed to call out and reply to all the lies and misinformation you are spreading across multiple threads, don't be offended when they do.

I will point out that Goldengirls post centred on the vaccines and answered all your questions and more and your sole response was not to rebut or answer a single point but to attack Goldengirl instead. That is on you.