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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭darconio


    I'd thought better of you, ...antivax playbook, of course is not true, is better the study you linked based on a bunch of autopsies

    This study was able to get deeper insights using actual cardiac tissues collected during autopsies from seven COVID patients from Brazil, two people who died from influenza and six control patients.

    The dose for children is 10 micrograms, as somebody else said, while the one for adults is 30: since they are supposed to take 2 doses plus booster, that makes exactly the amount of drug not recommended. But nevermind the numbers, let's vaccinate every child from something that doesn't affect them in the slightest with something that might permanently damage them, antivax playbook, page 9.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You probably know this and are being deliberately silly, but that's not how dosing works. The vaccines aren't drugs for one (another popular anti-vax refrain by the way) and completely leave the body within days of injection so when the next dose is administered, you're starting from 0 again (the antibodies that save your life will be present as your immune system produces them, not the vaccine).

    Some treatments do inject the Antibodies directly, but it's not as effective as the vaccine, requires multiple treatments and is a lot more expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,081 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This is an attempt to discredit the vaccines with deliberate misinfornation.

    A 30mg dose is one go is entirely different to 30mg distributed over months.

    Its like saying max dose of paracetamol for children is one go is X. Then saying paracetamol is dangerous because you can exceed that with several doses in a day.

    So no, you dont just get to drop antivax misinformation onto ths thread then hide behind a smokescreen like 'never mind the numbers'.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,938 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Dr. John Campbell - Covid symptoms change

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,759 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Was going to reply to this misinformation, but see you and astrofool have already set the record straight, thanks!

    It just proves that the antivax playbook doesn't extend to basic infornation about how the vaccines work.

    @darconio maybe read the actual up to date lleaflet before posting next time.

    Post edited by Goldengirl on

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,759 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Good to see ZOE data but he is behind . UK cases have gone up 25 % in the last week .

    Also the decision by the NHS not to test asymptomatic admissions to hospital is another instance of UK going against what was learnt about hospital breakout clusters of infections just because they now say they " are living with the virus " , and nit listening to the science . Just following the path of least resistance .

    When they get large hospital acquired infection will they change their minds again?

    Fact is while younger fitter people might be able to fight off an infection transmitted with a low viral load , this most likely would not be the case for the majority of elderly unwell people in hospitals .

    One would hope that they at least try to keep these untested people away from anyone vulnerable or not vaccinated / boosted .

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Apothic_Red


    Still waiting for the Twindemic to kick off.

    ICU holding steady at 11, slight uptick in hospital cases at 433.




  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,484 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    darconio threadbanned



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    Joseph A. Ladapo MD, PhD, State Surgeon General of Florida as of 7th October recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old. This is on the back of the fact that “there is an 84% increase in the relative incidence of cardiac-related death among males 18-39 years old within 28 days following mRNA vaccination" and that "with a high level of global immunity to COVID-19, the benefit of vaccination is likely outweighed by this abnormally high risk of cardiac- related death among men in this age group.”

    https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/20221007-guidance-mrna-covid19-vaccines-doc.pdf

    @astrofool , @odyssey06 , @Goldengirl I presume this fella and Florida Health Department must be yet another desperate loons pushing the anti-vax narrative, right? I mean they must be as we all know that vaccines are safe.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Its coming out in drips that these things are dangerous. So as there's going to be no panic or backlash.

    It's the only way, imagine the panic if it was all over the newspapers.

    It started out as a conspiracy theory. And the egotistical people who are oppositional to anything thats a potential conspiracy wouldn't comprehend that they were possibly used as guinea pigs for what's questionable as one of the biggest medical experiments in history.

    The rest is history. Full stop.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    He’s been anti vax for a while. Ever since he’s gotten the job he has refused to order vaccines for the state, recommended against them. This has been going on for over a year.

    Let me ask you this, why have the other 49 state surgeon generals not made the save recommendations as him? not like what he is saying is one day old. Like I said he’s been on this since he was appointed.

    Here’s the study he’s on about if you want to read it. It is already being questioned.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    In most US states (i.e. California) questioning vaccines is equal to an unprofessional conduct and yields loosing a license to practice. What that means is that anybody who provides information that contradicts the contemporary scientific consensus and is contrary to the standard of care is risking their employment and future career. A great deterrent for many healthcare professionals from speaking out as many have mentioned.

    You say that it is already being questioned. That should not be a surprise. Where is it questioned and by whom?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    The safety of vaccines has been questioned by a number of sources at this point. It is yet another promise of a vaccine that slowly comes to an end and people are waking up to it.

    We are still not there when it comes to having a transparent discussion on this and pretty much anybody who voices their concerns is swiftly labeled an anti-vaxxer. Yet it has nothing to do with being pro or against the vaccine, but with critical thinking and using vaccines when appropriate instead of as 'good for all'.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Its very hard to have a transparent discussion. For some reason it draws in posters who like calling people names.

    Imagine grown up professionals in a debate calling each other names, well it's unimaginable.

    So it's plain to see that the name caller's are neither professional or mature.

    So when that antivaxxer is met with a provaxxer response then you'll be called a whatever.

    Ignoring anyone who calls people antivaxxers is the only way. That sieve's the wheat from the chaff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    Like your use of extremes here. California is as far left as Florida is right. Why hasn’t Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas surgeon generals come out? They’re not being quashed as you say above. That’s the fun thing with evidence, if more come out then it builds a stronger case.

    i agree the deeply liberal states won’t like this discussion, but there’s far more conservative states. Where are they? Like I said earlier the Florida Surgeon general has form. He was solely appointed because he is in line with governor of floridas views (basically free for all method to Covid). He should be questioned on it. And most people will look at his evidence and make decisions on it. Obviously won’t happen in some quarters, but like I said above, surely Florida is not the only state seeking this. Or does this suit agendas with the governor of the state



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,944 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    "The vaccines aren't drugs" - what word would you use? medication? therapy?

    "completely leave the body within days" .......... you have some reference for this?

    From what I have read this is false. It was a claim by the manufacturer (repeated by others) which has been shown to be untrue by different studies, whose results are generally accepted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,944 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Florida is hardly the only place to take a different, to narrative, view on vaccines for Covid-19.

    A couple of European countries have also limited injections to specific cohorts. Denmark comes to mind immediately

    https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/denmark-ends-covid-vaccinations-for-981

    Yes, I have confirmed with a Danish friend that the information is correct.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    As far as I've always believed is the vaccines are for people who are elderly, immunocompromised and people who's immune system is shot.

    It gives them a boost of immunity.

    98%+ of people don't need them. Their immune systems will fight the virus adequately.

    From early on in the pandemic we were told most of us will have symptoms but won't get sick.

    It's a fact.

    Why vaccinate yourself for something to protect someone else from something they're vaccinated against anyhow, is anybody's guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    For the same reason why nobody before Nicolaus Copernicus came up with the idea of heliocentrism. People have warmed up to his believes after a while though. Let's wait and see.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Bloody hell, can an anti-vaxxer thread be created again, the inmates are running the asylum at the moment.

    (it does seem to have spread beyond the Covid vaccines as well).

    Happy to have this post deleted.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They're vaccines, if you want another word for some reason, medication probably covers everything that a doctor or nurse prescribes.

    Numerous independent studies into vaccines show no remaining elements days after vaccination occurs, all that remains is the immune system response to the vaccine (antibodies and immune cell memory).

    Show the studies that say otherwise (remembering this was in response to an ill-informed rant from another poster about dosing).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,965 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Thats the way I think it will evolve here. It's kinda happening already. 50+ cohort will be strongly encouraged to get the covid and flu vaccines every year. It will be available to the rest but I wouldn't see a large take-up or push. I doubt HSE or parents will be pushing it on children (from memory only 22% of 5-11 year olds were vaccinated).

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,081 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The number of cardiac related events being tracked for 18-39 males in 42... which suggest a small set of data to work with.

    The study says:

    Increased risk in the primary analysis for the 25 - 39 age group was based on a small sample size. 

    But here is also an important point from the study:

    In the 28 days following vaccination, no increase in risk was observed for all-cause deaths.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Your study proved what I said that it leaves the body within days, certainly by the time of the second dose, did you even read it?

    No vaccine mRNA was detected in prevaccination or postvaccination EBM samples beyond 48 hours of collection. Also, no COVID-19 vaccine mRNA was detected in the EBM fat fraction or the EBM cell pellets.

    Exact same with the rodent study (though it is from ~7 years ago when they were figuring out the right dosages for Lipid-Nano Particles, which was informed by studies like this).

    intravenous and intraperitoneal and to a lesser extent intramuscular and intratracheal deliveries led to trafficking of mRNA-LNPs systemically resulting in active translation of the mRNA in the liver for 1–4 days. Our results demonstrate that LNPs are appropriate carriers for mRNA in vivo and have the potential to become valuable tools for delivering mRNA encoding therapeutic proteins.

    Kudos on finding one of the studies that anti-vaxxers were sharing on twitter back in Summer 2020 during COVID vaccine trials.

    Given the study results you yourself provided, you can now retract your position.

    (and if you're really scared of mRNA for other make believe reasons, Novavax is also an option)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This has always been the case, colleges and schools also run flu vaccine drives depending on prevalence (which in the future will likely include COVID vaccines, though we'll see what happens after the bi-valent vaccine rolls out, SARS-COV2 doesn't seem to be as mutagenic as the flu, for now anyway).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,727 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Why do people continue to insist on looking at the vaccine through the lens of politics? The Florida surgeon General is an anti vax far right loon, but Denmark and Sweden also have more restrictive guidelines on who should be vaccinated. Denmark officials came out and stated outright that it was a mistake to vaccinate children. Why are those countries not labeled in a similar fashion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Spudman_20000


    Maybe the antivaxxers were quoting this back when we were told mRNA vaccine stayed in the injection site muscle?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,081 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Did they say it was a mistake?

    Or did they say, if we had known then what we know now about Omicron, we would not have done so?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,944 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Ah, a misunderstanding on my part.

    So you said the initial substance of the injection does not stay around for any appreciable length of time, but I was thinking of the effect of that substance - the spike proteins - remaining in the body for months after injection of the medication.

    I guess it is hardly surprising the spike protein is present for a long time as the injection essentially causes the body to produce these proteins and there apparently is no 'off switch' or 'timed death' to the process.



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