Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

Avon8 wrote: »

Have all your 17k posts ended with a sneery, sarcastic (and non funny) remark? That's just the last couple of pages. The cheek then to accuse other posters of personal attacks

Well thanks for the review of all my 17K posts.. You have a total of 23 posts? The bits you quoted are all comments on the topic of what was written and little different to many many other posts here.

And if you insist on taking things out of context. Your first quote btw. I'm actually agreeing with Graham if you want to check.

Ditto the second and my reply was in response to this comment

Looking forward to seeing how you mangle truth to claim that this is not backing up what I said

The third is also in context with regard to the outrage detailed in that post.

That some evidently don't like that my pov is their perogative. But yes afaik personal attacks are not permitted on boards

seamus

zackory wrote: »

If we kick back to July 19th for indoor from July 5th then a few weeks later schools will be getting ready to go back then

BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM

Our schools are our priority so hospitality can wait.

Yeah, if only something had changed since last year.....

Look in the mirror and ask yourself how many times have you been told "The next 2 weeks are crucial" and lapped it up each and every time?

I was convinced that you were a re-reg, but given that you've posted this, I can only assume you haven't actually been reading boards for the last year.

Or more likely, you think the entire pandemic is made up, but you know how insane that sounds, so you just stick to the narrative that NPHET want to keep us locked down forever, for reasons that you can't verbalise, but you just know it's true.

thebaz

We have vaccines that work, better than anything we could have hoped for a year ago , we have a good vaccination program - and still more Fear and irrational anxiety is being generated in society . I really do wonder will we EVER return to full normaility or stay connected to this state of over anxiety for ever (generated by media) ?

We really have forgotten that life is for living.

daydorunrun

seamus wrote: »

No, I didn't.

Because as a general rule, if the content isn't entirely contained within the written article, then it's a clickbait piece to pull at the heartstrings.

Emotion isn't as conveyable over text. The only reason the media produce videos with text teasers is because the entire purpose of the piece is to provoke emotion, not to communicate important information.

If it was important, it would be a full article with a video to be optionally watched.

You've just described RTE's pandemic policy but I suppose that's OK? It's perfectly fine not to click on these types of stories, I don't the majority of the time- but I don't then go telling everybody how it is without at least informing myself of the relevant facts.


Anyway haven't read the thread for a while and think I'll make it permanent- full of know it all government apologists who have far too much time on their hands to be in here 24/7.

Klonker

gozunda wrote: »

I'm gobsmacked - are you saying the only government worldwide keeping an eye on variants of concern is Ireland? :eek:

You'll be delighted to know we don't require people to wear masks outdoors here either!

And for the moment you most certainly do require a pre-departure negative COVID-19 test for travel to Italy.

And afaik we're due to adopt the DCC in the 2nd week of July just two weeks after its rolled out.

But hey let's keep the level of outrage up.

Tell me what other country is having serious discussions about delaying opening indoor dining when cases are continuing to fall, vaccinations are going out at fast rates and where only 1 in 100,000 people are currently in hospital with covid.

Honest question now, if our situation in terms of case numbers and hospitalisation are the same this time next week and NPHET advise against opening indoor hospitality would you agree with it?

Oh and I don't know how many days in the week where you are from but 19th July is not in the 2nd week of July.

MOH

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. A truely staggering piece of mangling, dodging n diving and whataboutery there my friend..

The bit which you skipped btw was you falsely
Quoting Nolan stating that "schools are perfectly safe" - then bizarrely claiming what he said was a "lie". And btw you included inverted commas with that as a direct quote from Nolan. Complete and utter scutter.

It remains he didn't say that. But hey wtf does the truth matter when someone can go on an extended rant with a bit of faux outrage thrown in for good measure eh?

Eh, no. You do know inverted commas have more than one usage?
I referred to Nolan continuing his "schools are perfectly safe" lie.
I included it in inverted commas along the lines of "nothing to see here" - or as you should have used for "my friend".
If I was attributing it as a direct quote to Nolan, I would have

quoted it

, and/or provided a source for it.

There have been numerous statements by Nolan (among others) over the past 8 months all pushing the message that schools weren't driving an increase in Covid cases.

Nolan, Mar 26th - it's not schools

I know it is a controversial thing for me to say but simply because things happen at the same time or simply because things are correlated does not imply a direct cause and effect relationship between the return to learning in a classroom and an increase in the number of cases detected in children at the same time

Nolan, Apr 8th - it's still not schools, it's testing. Also any increased numbers are "transient"

All the evidence points to a modest increase in young children in latter March being associated with an increase in testing which began when they returned to school and stopped when they closed, rather than being associated with education per se

There was another one which I can't be arsed hunting down saying that school themselves were fine, it was activities such as parents picking up and dropping off kids that was the danger.


It's jumping through hoops to try to convince people that schools are safe, using excuses which have not been applied to any other cohort. Instead of just admitting that they might not be but a political decision has been made to keep them open.

Things I haven't heard Philip Nolan say (note for Gozunda: these are not quotes):
"Pubs are totally safe, but drunk people might hug each other outside which is a risk but that's not the pubs per se"
"We've seen an increase in the number of people testing positive after travel, but that's down to the fact that we're testing more people who are travelling. There's no reason to assume they got it travelling"
"Just because we've seen a load of house parties in one area and numbers there have gone through the roof we can't assume a direct cause and effect relationship"

Ballynally

zackory wrote: »

So its ok for you to describe somebody elses contribution as

an extended rant with a bit of faux outrage thrown in

and

Complete and utter scutter.

But when your toxic and condescending comments are thrown back in your face it becomes a personal attack on you.

Well able to dish it out but can't take it obviously.

The way i see it is that it is always a dilemma whether to engage w a poster or not, coming from a fair and balanced position, trying to make a point in a respectable manner. But, more often than not, some people cannot logically engage using arguments without going personal.
Then its gone from the argument into a personal spat. Some people engage in this deliberately and that's why they are on social media.
They do not take kindly if you point out inconsistencies and see it as a personal attack, even though they themselves started dissing out ad hominems.
Maybe it is best not engaging with them at all and look at their previous posts. There is usually a clue right there.

zackory

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, if only something had changed since last year.....

Something has changed since last year. Variants became famous.

Itssoeasy

Not shocked really with what is reported unfortunately. It’s why I’ve stopped looking at the daily briefings or even looking at the daily numbers because it’d drive to drink at times and trying to as much as possible ignore Covid(which given how you can’t listen to radio, or watch tv without it being mentioned is tough) and also to treat the reopening dates as RRPs.

The minister for health’s comments on morning Ireland this morning were telling when he talked about the people in hospitality.

normanoffside

Fianna Fail admits that they just rubberstamp NPHET decisions.

https://twitter.com/JRD0000/status/1407619767985479684

Silentcorner

If we don't press on with our re opening on July 5th...I don't see how anybody left defending the position of the Government can be taken seriously.

The hospital and ICU numbers are all that really matter....they are on the floor and will remain so until winter....just like last year.

If we don't open on the 5th...I wonder how many more of us will start to articulate serious concerns as to how Health Bureaucrats, Politicians and Media are allowed to destroy our economy, our physical and mental health without question and when exactly do they intend to stop.

We can all see what is happening around the world, the case for lock downs is wafer thin....given lock downs are extraordinarily damaging...just look at the carnage coming our health on the Waiting lists!!!

Ballynally

MOH wrote: »

Eh, no. You do know inverted commas have more than one usage?
I referred to Nolan continuing his "schools are perfectly safe" lie.
I included it in inverted commas along the lines of "nothing to see here" - or as you should have used for "my friend".
If I was attributing it as a direct quote to Nolan, I would have
, and/or provided a source for it.

There have been numerous statements by Nolan (among others) over the past 8 months all pushing the message that schools weren't driving an increase in Covid cases.

Nolan, Mar 26th - it's not schools

Nolan, Apr 8th - it's still not schools, it's testing. Also any increased numbers are "transient"

There was another one which I can't be arsed hunting down saying that school themselves were fine, it was activities such as parents picking up and dropping off kids that was the danger.


It's jumping through hoops to try to convince people that schools are safe, using excuses which have not been applied to any other cohort. Instead of just admitting that they might not be but a political decision has been made to keep them open.

Things I haven't heard Philip Nolan say (note for Gozunda: these are not quotes):
"Pubs are totally safe, but drunk people might hug each other outside which is a risk but that's not the pubs per se"
"We've seen an increase in the number of people testing positive after travel, but that's down to the fact that we're testing more people who are travelling. There's no reason to assume they got it travelling"
"Just because we've seen a load of house parties in one area and numbers there have gone through the roof we can't assume a direct cause and effect relationship"

I suggest you stay away fr engaging w Goz. It just gets nasty..

seamus

daydorunrun wrote: »

You've just described RTE's pandemic policy but I suppose that's OK?

Yeah, RTE have been a disgrace, and the odd occasion I come across a video-only clickbait piece from them I don't engage it.

but I don't then go telling everybody how it is without at least informing myself of the relevant facts.

In the absence of any more detailed information, I seem to be spot on. It's a click bait piece. A couple of posters calling it insanity and fascism, but not providing any good reason why this particular story is an exception to all of the other people who couldn't get home to see dying relatives.

normanoffside wrote: »

Fianna Fail admits that they just rubberstamp NPHET decisions.

Conroy isn't even a TD, never mind privvy to the inner workings of government decisions. It was Cooper who suggested that "N-fet" decisions were rubberstamped, she just made an appallingly muddled response to it.

To suggest that this proves that FF just rubberstamp NPHET decisions is a very big stretch. We have ample proof that it's not the case.

zackory

Silentcorner wrote: »

If we don't press on with our re opening on July 5th...I don't see how anybody left defending the position of the Government can be taken seriously.

To be fair at this point I don't think I have seen any of the government / NPHET defenders around here say they believe a delay to July 5th reopening should happen.

zackory

seamus wrote: »

To suggest that this proves that FF just rubberstamp NPHET decisions is a very big stretch. We have ample proof that it's not the case.

Apart from the "meaningful Christmas" that Michael gave us I can't think of any others?

km79

Irish times now reporting that it’s 50:50 on reopening as planned and a two OR THREE week delay is being considered
It’s lengthening all the time
And that brings us closer to a bank holiday week
The “variant” loves those.....so early August . Maybe . Schools will be returning soon then though and reopening schools will be a priority (but not universities )

So what then ? When do we accept it’s time to move on ?
The PUP bill has to be paid at some stage too . Not added to

gozunda

zackory wrote: »

So its ok for you to describe somebody elses contribution as an extended rant with a bit of faux outrage thrown in andComplete and utter scutter. But when your toxic and condescending comments are thrown back in your face it becomes a personal attack on you.Well able to dish it out but can't take it obviously.

Well yes it is - when that discusses what was in the comment. For the reason that's commenting on what was written. Not the poster. But I think you already know that ...

As for this - seems you are happy enough "dishing" it. I believe these are some of yours...

zackory wrote:

But when your toxic and condescending comments are thrown back in your face it becomes a personal attack on you. Well able to dish it out but can't take it obviously.

zackory wrote:

I'm calling bullsh1t on this.
Its absolute nonsense.

zackory wrote:

Never in the history of boards has a contributors posts seen the pot met the kettle as often as it does on your posts

zackory wrote: »

Great contribution there. Well done.

zackory wrote: »

The only one crying is you.

No time to pander to any continued personal bs directed at other posters and (not just me btw) I'm going to put you permanently on ignore

Silentcorner

zackory wrote: »

To be fair at this point I don't think I have seen any of the government / NPHET defenders around here say they believe a delay to July 5th reopening should happen.

Well, there has been a day or two of media fear mongering and a health minister signaling an intent....

Normally what happens then is, the posters all row in behind what the Government is doing....

We saw that a few weeks ago when the Government took a rather unusual step of speeding up the re opening after a week of media fear hysteria, caught them all on the hop!

namloc1980

Delay delay delay. Wait until the end of July and the talk will be of the need to protect the return to school and we'll need to remain cautious. There'll also be ferocious finger wagging at anyone going on holiday, "why can't you wait?" "you don't need to go" etc. The fear is ramping up and we have 40 people in hospital with Covid. 0.0008% of the population.

TomSweeney

Silentcorner wrote: »

If we don't press on with our re opening on July 5th...I don't see how anybody left defending the position of the Government can be taken seriously.

The hospital and ICU numbers are all that really matter....they are on the floor and will remain so until winter....just like last year.

If we don't open on the 5th...I wonder how many more of us will start to articulate serious concerns as to how Health Bureaucrats, Politicians and Media are allowed to destroy our economy, our physical and mental health without question and when exactly do they intend to stop.

We can all see what is happening around the world, the case for lock downs is wafer thin....given lock downs are extraordinarily damaging...just look at the carnage coming our health on the Waiting lists!!!

And anyone questioning this of course will just be labelled as a far right anti vaxxer - allthough the anti vaxxer nonsense is wearing thin since we see so many people who are restriction critical getting the vaccines.


But still yeah, FAR RIGHT!!!

it's a nice way of scaring people into not complaining.

Hurrache

Like I said, the sky is only falling in on those who have the fear because of the stories you're reading, you're a highly strung lot.

Whatsisname

seamus wrote: »

So you think vaccinations and testing is pointless if you can't travel to another country? Right.

There is no blanket human right to enter a country without restrictions.

Sometimes it is necessary to temporarily yield some of our basic humanities in order to protect society as a whole.

What these people have to do is no different to all the families who've had to have closed coffins, forgo wakes, restrict funerals to a tiny fraction of their families, say goodbye to dying parents or children over zoom, and all the thousands of other small humanities we've had to sacrifice.

Why are this couple getting special treatment?

Because it's a sob story; A human interest story specially selected to tug at the heartstrings for clicks and likes, not to start a serious debate.

Why is vaccination and PCR testing good enough for some activities but not for others? are they reliable or are they not reliable?

I don't remember a time where governments decided it was best to suspend our basic humanities for our own good and if governments can decide suspend our basic humanities at the drop of a hat, do we really have any to begin with? Some governments could do with reminding that they work for us, we don't work for them.

You're taking issue with this story in particular but the issue lies beyond this one singular example.

mightyreds

Hurrache wrote: »

Like I said, the sky is only falling in on those who have the fear because of the stories you're reading, you're a highly strung lot.

You would have to avoid all Irish media to avoid those stories

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

Tell me what other country is having serious discussions about delaying opening indoor dining when cases are continuing to fall, vaccinations are going out at fast rates and where only 1 in 100,000 people are currently in hospital with covid.

Honest question now, if our situation in terms of case numbers and hospitalisation are the same this time next week and NPHET advise against opening indoor hospitality would you agree with it?

Oh and I don't know how many days in the week where you are from but 19th July is not in the 2nd week of July.

I believe the comment referred to travel not "indoor dining" but no matter.

Question. Are they having "serious discussions" about delaying opening indoor dining?

Reading the current news - I'd reckon quite a few countries are keeping an eye on developments and ottomh the UK has already rolled back on its relaxation of restrictions

As to your "honest question". I think I would want to know at what is happening next week as to scenario of Nphet advising the government against "indoor hospitality" before agreeing or disagreeing with anything.

But no I don't always agree with their findings. But then I know I don't have the information or indeed level of expertise that they do.

Completely agree the 19th of July is years away. I just don't see it that date not been realistic tbf

Penfailed

TomSweeney wrote: »

I honestly think Australia will never open their borders again.

I honestly think you are wrong.

growleaves

mightyreds wrote: »

You would have to avoid all Irish media to avoid those stories

The source for the Irish Times story is Stephen Donnelly, so you'd also have to pretend that the media do not have a direct pipeline to the Government.

We went through all this a few months ago with a 10-page debate over whether M. Martin had really said that outdoor dining would be suspended until June or whether RTE and others had taken it upon themselves to suggest it.

It turned out that Martin had said it and some 'pro-restrictions' posters had egg on their face.

namloc1980

Social distancing, pods and other measures to remain in our schools next academic year also. Poor kids

.

KrustyUCC

gozunda wrote: »

Reading the current news - I'd reckon quite a few countries are keeping an eye on developments and ottomh the UK has already rolled back on its relaxation of restrictions

UK rolled back on the final reopening of society

They have been able to serve indoor in restaurants since May 17th so we were two months behind them

TomSweeney

Penfailed wrote: »

I honestly think you are wrong.

I hope to f*ck I am !!!



Really.

Beanybabog

seamus wrote: »

What lockdown?

Why are you inventing something and then getting upset about it?

Lots of people (myself included) just can’t accept that we will keep moving forward. Before the last lockdowns some people here swore blind there’ll never be another lockdown, we couldn’t afford it, people / industry wouldn’t stand for it…. and then we locked down for months. I don’t know if it’s just media scaremongering getting to me or if I’m being realistic, but I think there’s a good chance July 5th will be delayed. Any rise in case numbers (not hospitalisations even) and NPHET will want restrictions maintained or even reintroduced. 19th July travel could be delayed as they have 6 weeks to implement the cert- further delays are trickier mainly because the government can’t hide behind NPHET advice when they’re answerable to the EU whether any measures are justified to restrict travel. I’m afraid there could be a wave across Europe from the delta variant after summer and travel could be restricted / other countries introduce more restrictive measures, and we all missed the only chance we had to get a summer break because we still weren’t allowed leave. All while other people fly in here on the promise that they’ll restrict movements or get a test.
The Delta variant is really getting me down right now, because it’s not going to be the last variant. If we curb reopening, or god forbid, reintroduce more measures, where does it end. When we’re all vaccinated? Or when we have new vaccines against the variants? Or do we just tick along opening and closing things indefinitely? I really hope I’m wrong but I can’t see the end in sight yet. And selfish as it may be, if there’s only going to be a short summer period where holidays in the EU are possible, I want to go!