The social housing list in Dublin

Maybe if the government put supports in place for new arrivals and didn't just leave them to rot, the people may be able to help themselves.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

So still no hypothesis as to the root cause of that 100% over-representation on the social housing list?



Never mind, we’re all in it together aren’t we Lucy?

Yup! For good or ill!

clytemnestra

Bubblypop, why should we place an additional burden on our already-strained tax base trying to bring new arrivals up to the level where they can be net contributors to our economy? We have enough problems of our own. Most people in direct provision are not genuine asylum seekers and come from countries like Nigeria, with whom we have no colonial links or historical connection. We owe them absolutely nothing.

ThunbergsAreGo

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe if the government put supports in place for new arrivals and didn't just leave them to rot, the people may be able to help themselves.

Well many on the list are from the EU and thus made a choice to come here (and can leave whenever)

Should we have a move to Ireland get free supports scheme? Is that not what welfare is?

Who pays for this?

I don't really have a massive problem with migration (ideally skilled) or social housing. I do think the current systems are broken and can only lead to an ever increasing level of state support.

Social housing doesn't appear overnight, and the demand is competing against the open market driving up prices and rents for everyone.

We may lose a generation to emigration due to this, looks bleak for our youth

Hamachi

And maybe if we had a fit-for-purpose immigration system that controlled for skills-based migration, attracting people who can and will work, those government supports would not be necessary.

Or just maybe if we had a credible asylum system that admitted legitimate applicants and weeded out the 80%+ of shysters currently subverting the system, we could offer proper support to those genuinely in need of protection.

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Yup! For good or ill!

I think we’re done here Lucy. Good luck!

EddieN75

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe if the government put supports in place for new arrivals and didn't just leave them to rot, the people may be able to help themselves.

What kind of supports?

Housing and full social welfare rights including medical , educational and financial are all included in the ending direct provision white paper.

Singed ,sealed and delivered by the good taxpayer

clytemnestra

clytemnestra wrote: »

Bubblypop, why should we place an additional burden on our already-strained tax base trying to bring new arrivals up to the level where they can be net contributors to our economy? We have enough problems of our own. Most people in direct provision are not genuine asylum seekers and come from countries like Nigeria, with whom we have no colonial links or historical connection. We owe them absolutely nothing.

There is a system in place and if people's application for asylum is denied then they must leave the country.
It needs to be much quicker.
If they are granted leave to stay then why would we just dump them to live on social assistance for the rest of their lives?
That doesn't make sense. That's a drain for sure

ek motor

Hamachi wrote: »

So still no hypothesis as to the root cause of that 100% over-representation on the social housing list?

Still no data to back up any assertions?

Never mind, we’re all in it together aren’t we Lucy?

People like this never have any statistics to back up their assertions . When unfavourable to open door mass immigration or to certain minorities in society, statistics are buried. Just look at America's stats on murder/assault/violent crime perpetrators by race.

ThunbergsAreGo

bubblypop wrote: »

There is a system in place and if people's application for asylum is denied then they must leave the country.
It needs to be much quicker.
If they are granted leave to stay then why would we just dump them to live on social assistance for the rest of their lives?
That doesn't make sense. That's a drain for sure

Again, I think threads like this tend to focus too much on certain nationalities. This isn't unique to asylum seekers (bogus or not), though I think O Gormans scheme will massive exacerbate it.

This is a housing supply issue

EddieN75

EddieN75 wrote: »

What kind of supports?

Housing and full social welfare rights including medical , educational and financial are all included in the ending direct provision white paper.

Singed ,sealed and delivered by the good taxpayer

Langauage classes, education for older people on Irish society, maybe vocational training, other training courses.
Supports to help them live their lives productively, not supports to let them sit around on social welfare.

ek motor

bubblypop wrote: »

There is a system in place and if people's application for asylum is denied then they must leave the country.
It needs to be much quicker.
If they are granted leave to stay then why would we just dump them to live on social assistance for the rest of their lives?
That doesn't make sense. That's a drain for sure

Michael McDowell in 2005 :

"Michael McDowell said the patience of the Irish people would be very tested if they knew the ‘cock and bull’ stories being given by people looking for asylum.

He said these included, for example, that they thought they had arrived in Canada, or that they had been selected for ritual sacrifice or to carry out a ritual sacrifice in their home country.


‘I would prefer to interview these people at the airport, but the UN insists that I go through due procedure,’ said Mr McDowell.

He continued: ‘As soon as we go through due process and the gardaí arrive, they lift the phone and call a lawyer who gets them a judicial review to get them taken off the plane. And as soon as they serve papers on me it is my duty to stop the flight.’

The minister went on to say ‘there's a lot of political correctness that goes on here and it is manifestly bogus, far-fetched nonsense and it's about time we said it’."

This man had the guts to say it 16 years ago. Few have had the spine to do it since.

clytemnestra

The point is most of them shouldn't have ever been given leave to remain. They were aided by NGOs, the legal profession who are themselves on a taxpayer funded gravy train. Residency and citizenship should be something difficult to attain and people should be held to a very high standard when it comes to self-sufficiency, language proficiency, adhering to cultural norms, obeying the law etc. We have been incredibly careless and stupid allowing so many people to live here who don't contribute and who cause problems.

It's still happening, look at Eli Kisyombe, an absolute joke of a con merchant, now regularly featured on RTE like nothing happened.

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Well many on the list are from the EU and thus made a choice to come here (and can leave whenever)

We can't do anything about that. So, we do what we can with others

The whole system is wrong here, there should be incentives to work, it's the opposite for many however

ThunbergsAreGo

bubblypop wrote: »

We can't do anything about that. So, we do what we can with others

The whole system is wrong here, there should be incentives to work, it's the opposite for many however

Yeah I totally agree, the whole social housing system is poorly implemented.

Do Irish have the same rights in the EU, can I go to Italy and go straight on the list for one in Milan?? Seems ours is ripe for playing

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Again, I think threads like this tend to focus too much on certain nationalities. This isn't unique to asylum seekers (bogus or not), though I think O Gormans scheme will massive exacerbate it.

This is a housing supply issue

Threads like this are designed to look at nationality, that's the whole point of the OP!
So posters can come on & talk about all the foreigners coming in and using up all our money and the poor Irish get nothing etc etc
Dividing people.

Of it was really a thread about housing supply no one would mention nationality, it would be about housing.

clytemnestra

We can actually remove people from the EU who can't support themselves, we just don't do it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-a-dream-come-true-mother-of-three-receives-key-to-new-home-after-13-year-wait-on-housing-list-37604917.html

Look at this Polish woman, joined the housing list in 2005 the year after Poland joined the EU and presumably the minute she arrived in Ireland. I don't think that should have ever been allowed. "Security for life for me and my kids" - well I know a lot of hardworking Irish families who have really struggled to provide themselves with secure housing in that time and they should have been given priority over her.

clytemnestra

clytemnestra wrote: »

The point is most of them shouldn't have ever been given leave to remain. They were aided by NGOs, the legal profession who are themselves on a taxpayer funded gravy train. Residency and citizenship should be something difficult to attain and people should be held to a very high standard when it comes to self-sufficiency, language proficiency, adhering to cultural norms, obeying the law etc. We have been incredibly careless and stupid allowing so many people to live here who don't contribute and who cause problems.

It's still happening, look at Eli Kisyombe, an absolute joke of a con merchant, now regularly featured on RTE like nothing happened.

So you know better then the people employed to do the job?

the system is as is, if people want the system changed, then they need to try and get that done. We are a just society though, and we ourselves are probably glad we can go to the courts in order to uphold our rights. The courts don't discriminate between nationalities.

Hamachi

clytemnestra wrote: »

...well I know a lot of hardworking Irish families who have really struggled to provide themselves with secure housing in that time and they should have been given priority over her.

Shhhh, you’re not allowed to say that lest you be culpable for ‘dividing people’..

ThunbergsAreGo

clytemnestra wrote: »

We can actually remove people from the EU who can't support themselves, we just don't do it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-a-dream-come-true-mother-of-three-receives-key-to-new-home-after-13-year-wait-on-housing-list-37604917.html

Look at this Polish woman, joined the housing list in 2005 the year after Poland joined the EU and presumably the minute she arrived in Ireland. I don't think that should have ever been allowed. "Security for life for me and my kids" - well I know a lot of hardworking Irish families who have really struggled to provide themselves with secure housing in that time and they should have been given priority over her.

I bear no ill will towards the people involved.

I think the system is a mess and the lack of want in Ireland to enforce laws and instead just throw money at it to go away is infuriating

clytemnestra

bubblypop wrote: »

So you know better then the people employed to do the job?

the system is as is, if people want the system changed, then they need to try and get that done. We are a just society though, and we ourselves are probably glad we can go to the courts in order to uphold our rights. The courts don't discriminate between nationalities.

People voted against birthright citizenship in 2004 by over 80%. The Labour Party are trying to reverse this by stealth.

Re "discriminating between nationalities" that is the whole point of the nation state, without which we're just a mass of serfs fighting each other for crumbs from the table of the 1%. Which is where the EU, NGOs and our politicians are leading us. You think "complaining about foreigners" is some kind of distraction from fighting the real enemy? Unfettered immigration is being actively imposed on us to create this division. It's not that Irish people don't know this. I have no idea what your point is.

spaceHopper

DerekC16 wrote: »

According to FOI requests sent out by The Burkean

• South Dublin County Council have built 365 units of housing since 2014

• The council has built 293 units of housing since 2014.

This it the bit that counts. Plenty of irish people left here because of unemployment or the troubles and were housed in the UK so we need to get over ourselves. We aren't building anywhere near enough social housing to meet the needs of the country

clytemnestra

clytemnestra wrote: »

People voted against birthright citizenship in 2004 by over 80%. The Labour Party are trying to reverse this by stealth.
.

Can you explain how they are trying to do this?

clytemnestra

bubblypop wrote: »

Can you explain how they are trying to do this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/labour/status/1333010568245030913

Eric Cartman

bubblypop wrote: »

Can you explain how they are trying to do this?

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/124/

Ivana and friends with labours blessing are trying to circumvent the will of the vast majority of Ireland and return us to the days of the ‘lagos express’

Cilldara_2000

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.theburkean.ie/articles/2021/04/29/how-much-of-the-dublin-housing-list-is-foreign-born

It would nearly break your heart.

Like many other people, I face a very high marginal income tax rate, about 60% in my case.

The worker on median FT wages faces a 48.5% marginal income tax rate, very common in Ireland.

To think that my taxes are being used to house people on the list below.

I want to contribute to society, but give me a break.

I buy health insurance for my family, I try to be responsible, I volunteer (in a small way).

But you can only push me so far........Jesus Wept, why are we housing these people when we have a massive shortage of houses?

Why isn't there a sensible political party that will stand up and stop this?




"Unlike other councils South Dublin was able to give us a breakdown of the nationalities applying for public housing. The following list are the leading nationalities on the list per the figures supplied to us.

Nationality Number of Applicants
British 62
Bosnian 228
Latvian 102
Lithuanian 166
Polish 362
Somalian 68
Pakistan 89
Nigerian 239
Iraq 52
Congolese 75
Moldovan 51

Cry me a river. If you have more than €100k non-PAYE income, your marginal rate is 55%.

And solely looking at the marginal rate is nonsense anyway. A single person w/o any exceptional circumstances will have paid an effective rate of 29.8% up to €100k.

TomTomTim

LarryBird wrote: »

We haven't a single politician in this country brave enough to tackle the issue, not a single one. They would get destroyed and branded a racist/xenophobic by our special interest media organisations here.

We have zero balance and not only is it dangerous but it will eventually lead to our ruin.

Exactly. Democracy is not democracy when only "accepted speech" is allowed. It's democracy in name only. We're one of the few nations in the west that goes out of their way to try and avoid even discussing the topic, never mind having an honest debate about the issues.

suicide_circus

Parallel societies along racial lines have already formed in Ireland mirroring the experience of our EU neighbours and the segregation and ghettoisation is only going in one direction. Providing own door accommodation to asylum seekers while unable to do same for the indigenous population will only pour petrol on the fire.

I can only imagine the 20,000 plus leave to remain is a simple back of a fag packet calculation that with endless appeals paid for by the tax payer, it's cheaper in the short term allow these failed asylum applicants and illegal immigrants to stay.

Cilldara_2000

clytemnestra wrote: »

We can actually remove people from the EU who can't support themselves, we just don't do it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-a-dream-come-true-mother-of-three-receives-key-to-new-home-after-13-year-wait-on-housing-list-37604917.html

Look at this Polish woman, joined the housing list in 2005 the year after Poland joined the EU and presumably the minute she arrived in Ireland. I don't think that should have ever been allowed. "Security for life for me and my kids" - well I know a lot of hardworking Irish families who have really struggled to provide themselves with secure housing in that time and they should have been given priority over her.

This sort of thing is easy to get to the bottom of. This is the policy since 2012: http://www.housing.old.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad%2C29412%2Cen.pdf

I found the link to the pdf here: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/applying_for_local_authority_housing.html

It includes this information about EEA nationals:

All EEA nationals may be considered for assessment for social housing support from housing authorities
if;
1) they are in employment/self-employed in the State; or
2) where they are not currently working/employed it is because -
 they are temporarily unable to work because of illness/accident;
 they are recorded as involuntarily unemployed after having been employed for longer than a year, and they are registered as a job-seeker with Department of Social Protection and FÁS.4

To the central point of the OP. Numbers on a waiting list are meaningless. I'd be far more interested if someone could show that there's a strong disproportionate bias towards non-nationals in those who have been allocated housing. For all we know (I haven't delved into the online information on this yet), the order of priority is working fine.

Cilldara_2000

2016 census data.

From theme 6, table 3:
Total number of households: 1,697,665
Rented from local authority: 143,178
Rented from voluntary/co-op body: 16,765

From table E1025:
Irish nationality reference person renting from local authority: 123,074; % of total: 86%
Irish nationality reference person renting from local authority: 13,864; % of total: 82.7%

At the same time, Irish nationality people made up 88% of the population.

Households by nationality of the reference person is difficult to find in the main data, but this page has table 3F2. It states that there are 1,631,861 households, 1,422,918 of which are headed by an Irish national. That's 87%.

So it would appear that there is a tiny skew towards non-nationals in social housing, and the reason there's so many proportionately on the housing list might be that Irish nationals are being moved through it quicker.

I'd be much obliged if anyone has any better statistics on nationality of people actually allocated housing in recent years.