Female Police officer stabbed to death in France

Danzy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't think you understand the people we're talking about here. This isn't a dispute over land or colonialism wrapped in an argument of religion (as you suggested with your references to the Troubles up North), or scumbags being scumbags.

The Islamic radicals and terrorists believe that anyone who is not a believer is a fair target, and that it is their duty to punish those infidels. More than that, they believe that they are doing God's work as I said, and will be rewarded for it in the afterlife.

In other words, they don't think like we do and you cannot just use the same methodology that was used with the groups up North. To do that would be a potentially disastrous mistake.

As I said, it really worries me that this is your attitude. You seem determined to ignore and downplay the clear motives involved here for no logical reason. This is where left/Liberal ideology runs into the hard brick wall of reality I'm afraid.

I can only hope your colleagues in the intelligence sections are more open and broad minded to the risks and reasons involved.

All thoughts, actions and events are to be interpreted through a narrow segment of modern Western thought.

When it clashes those who think otherwise, including the perpetrators are mistaken in why they did it.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I can only hope your colleagues in the intelligence sections are more open and broad minded to the risks and reasons involved.

Thankfully my colleagues and myself are very open minded, and like to collect as much information as possible about all terrorists. A lot more than simple answers!
You would be Surprised how many things terrorists of different backgrounds have in common.

Danzy

bubblypop wrote: »

Thankfully my colleagues and myself are very open minded, and like to collect as much information as possible about all terrorists. A lot more than simple answers!
You would be Surprised how many things terrorists of different backgrounds have in common.

You have to admire the sheer hubris and arrogance of your position.

You know more about it than the knife man and the French police and intelligence services, than Macron.

Hopefully they'll update to reflect your insights.

Tell us about the Life of this killer, where and who did he live with, who were his close contacts.

grassylawn

.anon. wrote: »

I'm not sure it's right to blame either. The people who carry out such attacks - whether it's a Muslim fanatic in France, a far-right fanatic in the UK or an incel in the US - are always cut from similar cloth. The ideology is just a cover.

Why are there more mass killers in some cultures than others then?

Mass killers and serial killers are not an Irish phenomenon. That doesn't give moral high ground though because our culture spawns a lot of family annihilators, child molestors and wife- and child-beaters. there is not a huge amount in common between the types of people who carry out these different acts.

Society has some part in the development of all of them as evidenced by different frequencies of each in different societies.

Jequ0n

grassylawn wrote: »

Why are there more mass killers in some cultures than others then?

Mass killers and serial killers are not an Irish phenomenon. That doesn't give moral high ground though because our culture spawns a lot of family annihilators, child molestors and wife- and child-beaters. there is not a huge amount in common between the types of people who carry out these different acts.

Society has some part in the development of all of them as evidenced by different frequencies of each in different societies.

Because extremist **** becomes appealing primarily if there is a void already. Works with every ideology.

However, you’d need to know and understand the intricacies of French culture and counter culture to understand why and extremist ideologies become so attractive.

Not aimed at you specifically btw

Mad_maxx

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't think you understand the people we're talking about here. This isn't a dispute over land or colonialism wrapped in an argument of religion (as you suggested with your references to the Troubles up North), or scumbags being scumbags.

The Islamic radicals and terrorists believe that anyone who is not a believer is a fair target, and that it is their duty to punish those infidels. More than that, they believe that they are doing God's work as I said, and will be rewarded for it in the afterlife.

In other words, they don't think like we do and you cannot just use the same methodology that was used with the groups up North. To do that would be a potentially disastrous mistake.

As I said, it really worries me that this is your attitude. You seem determined to ignore and downplay the clear motives involved here for no logical reason. This is where left/Liberal ideology runs into the hard brick wall of reality I'm afraid.

I can only hope your colleagues in the intelligence sections are more open and broad minded to the risks and reasons involved.

the prophet preached that spreading islam was the duty of all muslims , by sword if necessary

a tiny minority of muslims will do so but enough will for religion to be a recognised factor here

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Loverlyhorse wrote: »

Overheal - you so confidently deny this has anything to do with Islam. Have you read the Quran?

So what part of the Quran are you claiming is relevant to this statement?

Loverlyhorse wrote: »

Not hard to see why they hate infidels and support jihad and martyrdom. Read it yourself and educate yourself.

Danzy

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the prophet preached that spreading islam was the duty of all muslims , by sword if necessary

a tiny minority of muslims will do so but enough will for religion to be a recognised factor here

Only a small group in any religion are true to it's teachings. The rest range from occasional dedication to in name only.

jmreire

A man kills a woman by brutally stabbing her in the throat. An innocent woman going about her business, not bothering anyone, and while doing he shouts " Allahu Akbar" God is Greatest. He is doing this in the name of Allah. So he is a brother to his 1.8 Billion fellow Muslim's. And people on this forum are claiming that his religion had nothing to do with his killing of the woman. So while the vast majority of Muslims are indeed peacefull people, and are horrified by what is being done in the Name of Allah and the negative effects this has on Muslims worldwide. Yet reading from the same Koran and Hadiths,and using it as justification for their atrocities, you have isis..who use the strict Wahabbi version. They have killed hundreds of thousands to date, and are still killing ( yes they are regrouping ) Would not surprise me in the slightest if isis claimed the murderer was one of them. They have previous form on this. And people wonder why religion ( tarring everyone with the same brush) should even be considered in a case like this,and why suspect islamic terrorists should be under close scrutiny. Many terrorist attacks have been frustrated precisely because of such scrutiny and infiltration. The problem is, like the terrorist who murdered this Lady, the sleeper ones....no indication that they are actually fanatical, even to their work colleagues. So sorry to say, but yes, religion in this case fanatical Islam, is a factor that has to be taken into account.

biko

Found some news in English for our non-francophones.
It really just confirms what I posted before from French sources.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/knifeman-is-shot-dead-by-police-after-stabbing-female-officer-to-death-in-france/ar-BB1fYt5d

A knifeman was shot dead by police after a female police officer was stabbed to death in France on Friday.

The 49-year-old mother-of-two was fatally stabbed in the neck at the entrance to a police station in Rambouillet, a middle-class commuter town outside Paris.

She was returning from her break shortly after 14:00 (12:00 GMT) when the man entered the police station, according to local reports.

The 36-year-old assailant lunged at the officer, who had worked for the police since 1993, and her colleagues then opened fire on him and he was shot dead.

The attacker was of Tunisian nationality and residing in France on legitimate papers.

He is said to have arrived in the country in 2009.

He was not previously known to police or anti-terrorist authorities and had recently moved to Rambouillet after living in the Val-de-Marne.

According to reports, the knifeman shouted Allahu Akbar, however a security official said there was no immediate indication he had cried any Islamist or Islamic slogans.

The Versailles prosecutor is currently investigating, an official said.

The French anti-terror police have also opened an investigation.

The incident follows the fatal stabbing of four people in the headquarters of the Paris police force in 2019, and comes six months after an Islamist teenager beheaded a school teacher in the same administrative department of France.

TomSweeney

Overheal wrote: »

At what % do they meet some criteria for it being okay to tar the every last one of them?

No one is tarring every last one of them, but there is a huge issue with the sympathizers, this is what drives the radicals - if it were really a small fringe it would fizzle out, it isn't, and the enablers like the progressive left in the west are enabling them further.

TomTomTim

This is what, the 40 or 50 incidents like this in the last 5 or 6 years? Yet everything remains the same. The same few posters are still just as apologetic as they were when the numbers were far lower. There's never a point for these people when they go, "ok, that's enough, this is a serious issue". France could legitimacy turn into an Islamic Republic and the same few posters would be trying to tell you it's a good thing.

Timberrrrrrrr

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is what, the 40 or 50 incidents like this in the last 5 or 6 years? Yet everything remains the same. The same few posters are still just as apologetic as they were when the numbers were far lower. There's never a point for these people when they go, "ok, that's enough, this is a serious issue". France could legitimacy turn into an Islamic Republic and the same few posters would be trying to tell you it's a good thing.

From Biko's link

The attacker was of Tunisian nationality and residing in France on legitimate papers.

He is said to have arrived in the country in 2009.

He was not previously known to police or anti-terrorist authorities and had recently moved to Rambouillet after living in the Val-de-Marne.

So taking all of that into consideration, what is your (or anyone elses) solution to stop these horrific attacks?

grassylawn

jmreire wrote: »

A man kills a woman by brutally stabbing her in the throat. An innocent woman going about her business, not bothering anyone, and while doing he shouts " Allahu Akbar" God is Greatest. He is doing this in the name of Allah. So he is a brother to his 1.8 Billion fellow Muslim's. And people on this forum are claiming that his religion had nothing to do with his killing of the woman. So while the vast majority of Muslims are indeed peacefull people, and are horrified by what is being done in the Name of Allah and the negative effects this has on Muslims worldwide. Yet reading from the same Koran and Hadiths,and using it as justification for their atrocities, you have isis..who use the strict Wahabbi version. They have killed hundreds of thousands to date, and are still killing ( yes they are regrouping ) Would not surprise me in the slightest if isis claimed the murderer was one of them. They have previous form on this. And people wonder why religion ( tarring everyone with the same brush) should even be considered in a case like this,and why suspect islamic terrorists should be under close scrutiny. Many terrorist attacks have been frustrated precisely because of such scrutiny and infiltration. The problem is, like the terrorist who murdered this Lady, the sleeper ones....no indication that they are actually fanatical, even to their work colleagues. So sorry to say, but yes, religion in this case fanatical Islam, is a factor that has to be taken into account.

It's a particular school of Islam though. What is interesting is that it is a school that was very small until it began being actively propagated by Saudi Arabia, especially in Pakistan. It is weaponized religion. The film Bitter Lake explains how it came about and it is an excellent watch.

There are people being radicalized inside western countries. Identifying the people doing this and eliminating them seems like the best approach to addressing the issue, along with identifying the same thing happening online.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TomSweeney wrote: »

No one is tarring every last one of them, but there is a huge issue with the sympathizers, this is what drives the radicals - if it were really a small fringe it would fizzle out, it isn't, and the enablers like the progressive left in the west are enabling them further.

I respectfully disagree. Not "every last one of them" but the posts below make definite attempts to link the actions with the religion.

Loverlyhorse wrote: »

I keep hearing that it's a "religion of peace"?

Deleted User wrote: »

"Religion of peace" is a self appointed title.

biko wrote: »

France have been battling this dangerous and hateful ideology for many years now.
The victims count in their hundreds in France alone.

Does someone have an idea on how to avoid these attacks?

punisher5112 wrote: »

Unfortunately they want to let these all in here too...

Strumms wrote: »

Bigotry is a form of intolerance.

I’m all for being intolerant when it comes to people who might be capable of doing a country and it’s citizens and way of life harm...

Why should anybody tolerate their society becoming damaged, dangerous and violent and less financially solvent/secure... all in the name of helping and facilitating the wellbeing of people of whom we’ve no connection to and who originated thousands of kilometers away ?

The US screen people... Europe might have to look at doing the same.

Clean record? Ok, enter and seek approval to stay ? A criminal ? Nope

Loverlyhorse wrote: »

Are people here really suggesting that attacks by Islamic extremists have nothing to do with Islam? Seriously?

It doesn't matter if 1 billion people don't follow the religion to the letter. Those that do, wage jihad and treat infidels as sub-human. It is not hard to see how they arrive here, given a clear and honest reading of the texts (Quran). It's a truly awful book.

Loverlyhorse wrote: »

And if the murder of the police officer was directly caused by this persons religious beliefs - are you honestly claiming that's not relevant? And you don't care?

How can these murders be prevented in the future if we don't explore their motivation?

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is what, the 40 or 50 incidents like this in the last 5 or 6 years? Yet everything remains the same. The same few posters are still just as apologetic as they were when the numbers were far lower. There's never a point for these people when they go, "ok, that's enough, this is a serious issue". France could legitimacy turn into an Islamic Republic and the same few posters would be trying to tell you it's a good thing.

biko

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I respectfully disagree. Not "every last one of them" but the posts below make definite attempts to link the actions with the religion.

Does anyone think this stabbing is not related to religion?

Doesn't shouting Allah Akbar kinda give it away?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

Does anyone think this stabbing is not related to religion?

Doesn't shouting Allah Akbar kinda give it away?

The question was not is the stabbing connected to the person's religion; the question was are people trying to connect the religion of one person to the religion as a whole.

TomSweeney wrote: »

No one is tarring every last one of them, but there is a huge issue with the sympathizers, this is what drives the radicals - if it were really a small fringe it would fizzle out, it isn't, and the enablers like the progressive left in the west are enabling them further.

biko

Are the "good/moderate" Muslims of France condemning this act?
If not, is their silence violence?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

Are the "good/moderate" Muslims of France condemning this act?
If not, is their silence violence?

The same question came up in the sexual assault thread, but it was "men" instead if muslims, and the act was "sexual assault" instead of terrorism.

And my asnwer is the same then as it is now: no. Silence is not support.

But the question remains: are you trying to tar the entire religion?

Tchaikovsky

biko wrote: »

Are the "good/moderate" Muslims of France condemning this act?
If not, is their silence violence?

Why would they have to condemn it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The same question came up in the sexual assault thread, but it was "men" instead if muslims, and the act was "sexual assault" instead of terrorism.

And my asnwer is the same then as it is now: no. Silence is not support.

But the question remains: are you trying to tar the entire religion?

It's a false equivalence.

The male gender doesn't have a particular culture (specific to itself) or guiding sense of behavior to direct them in how they interact with others. And in the case of social conditioning, we have layers upon layers of influence/conditioning applied to the male gender to consider sexual assault as being wrong, or negative.

Islam, on the other hand, does have that influence towards behavior. There is a lot of literature, or religious expression which encourages the application of violence towards those who are unbelievers. Just as in a modern sense, there is a lot of religious pressure to encourage/tolerate the application of terrorism as a means of dealing with those who offend the religion.

Silence doesn't mean support, but it also doesn't mean that they're against this behavior.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a false equivalence.

The male gender doesn't have a particular culture (specific to itself) or guiding sense of behavior to direct them in how they interact with others. And in the case of social conditioning, we have layers upon layers of influence/conditioning applied to the male gender to consider sexual assault as being wrong, or negative.

Islam, on the other hand, does have that influence towards behavior. There is a lot of literature, or religious expression which encourages the application of violence towards those who are unbelievers. Just as in a modern sense, there is a lot of religious pressure to encourage/tolerate the application of terrorism as a means of dealing with those who offend the religion.

Silence doesn't mean support, but it also doesn't mean that they're against this behavior.

Splitting hairs a bit here, but I see yout point.

What I'm saying is that: the many do not have a duty to denouce the few.

biko

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

But the question remains: are you trying to tar the entire religion?

Muslims worldwide do not bear responsibility for this killing, just like Catholics worldwide do not bear responsibility for child abuse.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, it's like calling Catholicism a religion of people who respect children, isn't it?

However, the Bible don't mention kiddie fiddling but the Koran does mention killing unbelievers (we don't know if this woman was killed because she was kufar or if she was a woman).

Bible - "But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Quran - "I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."

https://www.biblehub.com/matthew/18-6.htm
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

DeadHand

biko wrote: »

Are the "good/moderate" Muslims of France condemning this act?
If not, is their silence violence?

Their silence, and that of other Muslim communities in Europe, on this and of the many other massacres of innocents directly informed by their faith stands in telling contrast with their huge mobilisations when it is felt said faith is insulted.

jmreire

grassylawn wrote: »

It's a particular school of Islam though. What is interesting is that it is a school that was very small until it began being actively propagated by Saudi Arabia, especially in Pakistan. It is weaponized religion. The film Bitter Lake explains how it came about and it is an excellent watch.

There are people being radicalized inside western countries. Identifying the people doing this and eliminating them seems like the best approach to addressing the issue, along with identifying the same thing happening online.

As a Wahabbi friend ( now ex ) explained it to me, " In the Quran, you will find the answer to all of your questions, and everything you need in this life is covered. Peace and Love? Yes, Holy War and Jihad? Yes. In Pakistan, it was the religious madrassa's which gave rise the the Taliban ( and now they are back again in all their murderous ways i
As for the Saudis and Wahabbism, they ( with their oil wealth) have been major contributors to radical islam world wide. I'm pretty sure that the various intelligence agency's are doing everything in their power to identify and elimimate radical islam threats, but despite their best efforts ( and they have prevented many attacke from being carried out ) the so called "Lone Wolf type attacks are nearly impossible to prevent. As this latest murder proves, and also from October 2019: A police computer operator stabbed four of his colleagues to death at the Paris police headquarters, before being shot dead. Anti-terror prosecutors said he adhered to a radical version of Islam..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

Muslims worldwide do not bear responsibility for this killing, just like Catholics worldwide do not bear responsibility for child abuse.
[/QUOT]
Agree.

However, the Bible don't mention kiddie fiddling but the Koran does mention killing unbelievers (we don't know if this woman was killed because she was kufar or if she was a woman).

Bible - "But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Quran - "I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."

https://www.biblehub.com/matthew/18-6.htm
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

By quoting the Quran and the Bible, are you implying that every single person who subscibes to the Islam/Chrsitianity can be judged by said writings? 1.8 million people are autumatically pedoohiles because they are Islam?

If not, what's the point of this?

If so, tell me what the old testaments says about physically beting children, slavery, homosexuality and legalised killing.

Seriously - if you go down the road of quoting scripture, you're getting desperate. And you're going on your own.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

Muslims worldwide do not bear responsibility for this killing, just like Catholics worldwide do not bear responsibility for child abuse.

Agree.

However, the Bible don't mention kiddie fiddling but the Koran does mention killing unbelievers (we don't know if this woman was killed because she was kufar or if she was a woman).

Bible - "But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Quran - "I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."

https://www.biblehub.com/matthew/18-6.htm
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

By quoting the Quran and the Bible, are you implying that every single person who subscibes to the Islam/Chrsitianity can be judged by said writings? 1.8 million people are autumatically pedoohiles because they are muslim?

If not, what's the point of this?

If so, tell me what the old testaments says about physically beting children, slavery, homosexuality and legalised killing.

Seriously - if you go down the road of quoting scripture, you're getting desperate. And you're going on your own.

Timberrrrrrrr

biko wrote: »

Muslims worldwide do not bear responsibility for this killing, just like Catholics worldwide do not bear responsibility for child abuse.


However, the Bible don't mention kiddie fiddling but the Koran does mention killing unbelievers (we don't know if this woman was killed because she was kufar or if she was a woman).

Bible - "But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Quran - "I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."

https://www.biblehub.com/matthew/18-6.htm
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

Bible

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Bible

The man who acts presumptuously by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the Lord your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

Bible

“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

And so on and so on, don't pretend that the Bible is all sweetness and light ffs it wasn't so long ago that Christians went on crusades and killed in the name of religion.

biko

I tried to explain that in Islam, killing unbelievers is not a strange concept at all. It is in their book and you may even have heard about it before.
Or just ask your Muslim friends.

jmreire

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

biko wrote: »

Muslims worldwide do not bear responsibility for this killing, just like Catholics worldwide do not bear responsibility for child abuse.
[/QUOT]
Agree.




By quoting the Quran and the Bible, are you implying that every single person who subscibes to the Islam/Chrsitianity can be judged by said writings? 1.8 million people are autumatically pedoohiles because they are Islam?

If not, what's the point of this?

If so, tell me what the old testaments says about physically beting children, slavery, homosexuality and legalised killing.

Seriously - if you go down the road of quoting scripture, you're getting desperate. And you're going on your own.

The problem is that when passages from a book written 1400 years ago, which actively preaches death to the unbelievers, and other atrocities, are still being acted on in 2021. People who shout Allah Akbar as they cut the throats of their victims are prime examples of this.