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Female Police officer stabbed to death in France

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24567…23

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    #32
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,989 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    grassylawn wrote: »
    How do you implement the idea of not admitting terrorists?

    I reckon they don't know they're terrorists when they arrive. So is it just to not let muslims in?

    I'm not a fan of religion, and Islam seems worse than most. But I'm also not onboard with the idea of discriminating against people on the basis of their religion.

    Also considering the suspect arrived 12 years ago I don’t think anyone can really fault the sovereign/immigration security measures as a primary cause for the stabbing itself. No liability on their part at all for that, unless you apply the superhuman standard of them being psychic or having precognition.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    No, my arugment is with the person who puts it in "inverted commas".

    Yes, the inams and left wing commentators.


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    #34
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/terrorisme/fonctionnaire-de-police-tuee-a-rambouillet/attaque-au-couteau-a-rambouillet-le-profil-de-lassaillant-jamelgorchane-se-precise_4384915.html

    The suspect arrived as an irregular migrant and was regularised in 2019.
    Irregular is newspeak for illegal migrants, the boats that come across the sea.
    Regularisation is an amnesty or leave to remain.
    It's not yet clear in this instance how he was regularised.

    This act echoes the stabbings by a 21-year-old Tunisian in Nice in October who killed people in a church while shouting Allah Akbar.


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    #35
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,173 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, the inams and left wing commentators.

    Are you intentionally misreading my post to save face?

    Why would I argue the point that you can not judge the beliefs of billions of people by the actions of one person with someone who already knows this...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #36
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,457 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Overheal wrote: »
    That’s some laughable revisionism you’re trying to pull.

    The only Volunteers you know are tending horses for the Irish Racing association.


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    #37
    grassylawn
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭grassylawn


    You can blame left-wing people for supporting lax immigration policies. You can blame right-wing people for creating a hostile environment in their new country that makes them soft targets for radicalizers. It seems to me like both have truth in them. The left v right thing leads a simplistic understanding of things. "It is their fault" is single-dimension thinking.


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    #38
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    There’s far too much of this going on in the name of Islam —

    Deadly attacks on French police
    January 2015: Two police officers were among those killed in the attack at the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. A third was killed in a related attack the following day.
    June 2016: A police commander and his partner, also a police official, were stabbed to death at their home west of Paris by a man claiming allegiance to the Islamic State (IS) group. The attacker was killed in a police assault on the house.
    April 2017: A French policeman was killed by a jihadist on the Champs Elysées in Paris. Two other officers were wounded in the attack. The suspect was shot dead by security forces, and a note defending IS was found near his body.
    March 2018: A gunman who pledged allegiance to IS militants launched a series of attacks in southern France, killing four people including a policeman who traded places with a captive. He also opened fire on a group of police officers out jogging, wounding one. The suspect was shot dead by police.
    October 2019: A police computer operator stabbed four of his colleagues to death at the Paris police headquarters, before being shot dead. Anti-terror prosecutors said he adhered to a radical version of Islam..


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There’s far too much of this going on in the name of Islam —

    Deadly attacks on French police
    January 2015: Two police officers were among those killed in the attack at the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. A third was killed in a related attack the following day.
    June 2016: A police commander and his partner, also a police official, were stabbed to death at their home west of Paris by a man claiming allegiance to the Islamic State (IS) group. The attacker was killed in a police assault on the house.
    April 2017: A French policeman was killed by a jihadist on the Champs Elysées in Paris. Two other officers were wounded in the attack. The suspect was shot dead by security forces, and a note defending IS was found near his body.
    March 2018: A gunman who pledged allegiance to IS militants launched a series of attacks in southern France, killing four people including a policeman who traded places with a captive. He also opened fire on a group of police officers out jogging, wounding one. The suspect was shot dead by police.
    October 2019: A police computer operator stabbed four of his colleagues to death at the Paris police headquarters, before being shot dead. Anti-terror prosecutors said he adhered to a radical version of Islam..

    Does it matter what religion the people are who killed police?


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    #40
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Yes, it appears to matter.

    No Jews for instance have committed police murders to my knowledge of late in France*.






    *I'm sure someone can find some murder somewhere in Israel or other place.


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    #41
    .anon.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭.anon.


    grassylawn wrote: »
    You can blame left-wing people for supporting lax immigration policies. You can blame right-wing people for creating a hostile environment in their new country that makes them soft targets for radicalizers. It seems to me like both have truth in them. The left v right thing leads a simplistic understanding of things. "It is their fault" is single-dimension thinking.

    I'm not sure it's right to blame either. The people who carry out such attacks - whether it's a Muslim fanatic in France, a far-right fanatic in the UK or an incel in the US - are always cut from similar cloth. The ideology is just a cover.


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    #42
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Does it matter what religion the people are who killed police?

    It does if their adherence to that religion or support for/membership of radical religious groups was linked to their actions.

    You may find such things uncomfortable but those are the facts


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    Yes, it appears to matter.

    No Jews for instance have committed police murders to my knowledge of late in France*.






    *I'm sure someone can find some murder somewhere in Israel or other place.

    No.
    It doesn't matter what religion the murderer is.
    It wouldn't matter to me what religion the person is who murdered me, if someone murders my colleague, I couldn't give two ****s what their religion is.


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    #44
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes. The apologists who'll be out in force soon. They are worse.

    Which apologists?

    I always see this type of post pop up on the first page of one of these tragedies trying to wrangle a few thanks but I've yet to see someone try and stand up for the murderers.


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    #45
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    bubblypop wrote: »
    It wouldn't matter to me what religion the person is who murdered me, if someone murders my colleague, I couldn't give two ****s what their religion is.
    You should ask your colleagues their opinion during your next video call.
    Maybe they will agree with you, maybe not.


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    #46
    Yakov P. Golyadkin
    Registered Users Posts: 575 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Yes, the inams and left wing commentators.

    Inams? You don't even know the words you wish to use.

    Here - Imams.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    You should ask your colleagues their opinion during your next video call.
    Maybe they will agree with you, maybe not.

    Why would we be on video call? We work together & I assure you, they couldn't care less what religion some murdering scumbag is.


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    #48
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Why would we be on video call? We work together & I assure you, they couldn't care less what religion some murdering scumbag is.

    As I said above, I'm sure it'll matter if the reason they were attacked or worse was religiously motivated.

    I'm actually surprised that someone like yourself seems to be more concerned with virtue signalling than the reality of the potential threat caused by these individuals and their radical beliefs.


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    #49
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,088 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    France’s fight was los aeons ago simply because the state made grievous and badly informed decisions.
    Instead of learning from it other countries just let the same thing happen, which is the real tragedy.

    No, I do not support any religious crap or extremism but that’s not really what laid the foundations for these attacks.

    I am not a big fan of the French police but attacking an admin worker is pretty cowardly. I hope his imaginary friend is very proud of him.


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    #50
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Jequ0n wrote: »
    France’s fight was los aeons ago simply because the state made grievous and badly informed decisions.
    Instead of learning from it other countries just let the same thing happen, which is the real tragedy.

    What's worse for us is we are being setup for potentially the same issues here with the imminent "come one, come all" immigration policies that O'Gorman and the Government are finalising.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    As I said above, I'm sure it'll matter if the reason they were attacked or worse was religiously motivated.

    I'm actually surprised that someone like yourself seems to be more concerned with virtue signalling than the reality of the potential threat caused by these individuals and their radical beliefs.

    I have no idea what you're talking about 'virtue signalling ' I don't even know what that means?
    I'm concerned with people murdering policemen, their religion doesn't matter. My colleagues couldn't care less about their religion either.
    A murdering scumbag is a murdering scumbag and I don't care what their motivation.
    What annoys me is people who seem to be more interested in the religion of the murderer, than of the poor dead police.


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    #52
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,938 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Overheal wrote: »
    And on what criteria do you wish to refuse them, that is not bigotry?

    Bigotry is a form of intolerance.

    I’m all for being intolerant when it comes to people who might be capable of doing a country and it’s citizens and way of life harm...

    Why should anybody tolerate their society becoming damaged, dangerous and violent and less financially solvent/secure... all in the name of helping and facilitating the wellbeing of people of whom we’ve no connection to and who originated thousands of kilometers away ?

    The US screen people... Europe might have to look at doing the same.

    Clean record? Ok, enter and seek approval to stay ? A criminal ? Nope


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    #53
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I have no idea what you're talking about 'virtue signalling ' I don't even know what that means?
    I'm concerned with people murdering policemen, their religion doesn't matter. My colleagues couldn't care less about their religion either.
    A murdering scumbag is a murdering scumbag and I don't care what their motivation.
    What annoys me is people who seem to be more interested in the religion of the murderer, than of the poor dead police.

    I find it extremely hard to believe that you don't know what virtue signaling is. Even just posting on this forum would tell you that, but I'll clarify for you .. You seem to be more concerned with downplaying the attacker's links to a radical sect of a religion and what that sect teach with regards to others, than recognising the very real danger and risk it poses.

    Do you really expect people to believe that if the primary reason someone was attacked or killed was religiously motivated or the result of radicalisation, that it doesn't matter? You do realise that without that motivation the attack probably wouldn't have happened in the first place, right?


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    #54
    Loverlyhorse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 44 ✭Loverlyhorse


    Are people here really suggesting that attacks by Islamic extremists have nothing to do with Islam? Seriously?

    It doesn't matter if 1 billion people don't follow the religion to the letter. Those that do, wage jihad and treat infidels as sub-human. It is not hard to see how they arrive here, given a clear and honest reading of the texts (Quran). It's a truly awful book.


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    #55
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,088 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    What's worse for us is we are being setup for potentially the same issues here with the imminent "come one, come all" immigration policies that O'Gorman and the Government are finalising.

    I’m an immigrant in Ireland myself and it pisses me off mightily when people are self entitled and feel maltreated all the time.

    Yes, I do think it’s more difficult to adjust depending where you come from and how you look, and I am sure I have it easy by being a chameleon anyway. But I don’t see Ireland ready or prepared to make tough decisions to avoid what is happening elsewhere as a result of bad bad planning. But then that’s true for a lot of domestic issues too so maybe there are bigger fish to fry


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I find it extremely hard to believe that you don't know what virtue signaling is. Even just posting on this forum would tell you that, but I'll clarify for you .. You seem to be more concerned with downplaying the attacker's links to a radical sect of a religion and what that sect teach with regards to others, than recognising the very real danger and risk it poses.

    Do you really expect people to believe that if the primary reason someone was attacked or killed was religiously motivated or the result of radicalisation, that it doesn't matter? You do realise that without that motivation the attack probably wouldn't have happened in the first place, right?

    I don't pay any attention to any of these new things, virtue signalling or echo chambers of any of that other rubbish, I ignore them.
    I'm not downplaying anything.
    Everyone is using the murder of a policewoman to go on and on about religion of the murderer. I don't care less about his religion.
    I care about a murderer killing police, that's what's important.


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    #57
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,989 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Strumms wrote: »
    Bigotry is a form of intolerance.

    I’m all for being intolerant when it comes to people who might be capable of doing a country and it’s citizens and way of life harm...

    Why should anybody tolerate their society becoming damaged, dangerous and violent and less financially solvent/secure... all in the name of helping and facilitating the wellbeing of people of whom we’ve no connection to and who originated thousands of kilometers away ?

    The US screen people... Europe might have to look at doing the same.

    Clean record? Ok, enter and seek approval to stay ? A criminal ? Nope

    So you'd be making the argument that something in the cop killers record prior to their arrival in 2009 or their naturalization in 2017 etc. shows a criminal record?

    So do you have any evidence of that?

    Surely it's just as possible for someone without a record as with one to have committed such an attack. Not that you don't have a great ask for your border security standard, ie. letting in known criminals, but you are pre-supposing it would have helped at all in this case or therefore that pushing for crackdowns on criminal records at the border would somehow solve the problem in the future. There's also the problem that the places people were taking refuge from did not, necessarily, maintain good records or have a means to share that with international partners, such as Ireland France or the UK. It's one thing to say 'just don't admit criminals' but the reality is so much greyer than that.


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    #58
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I don't pay any attention to any of these new things, virtue signalling or echo chambers of any of that other rubbish, I ignore them.
    I'm not downplaying anything.
    Everyone is using the murder of a policewoman to go on and on about religion of the murderer. I don't care less about his religion.
    I care about a murderer killing police, that's what's important.

    But you also have to think about why these people are attacking and killing police. There is a reason, a motive. Motive is what police everywhere look for.


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    #59
    Loverlyhorse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 44 ✭Loverlyhorse


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I don't pay any attention to any of these new things, virtue signalling or echo chambers of any of that other rubbish, I ignore them.
    I'm not downplaying anything.
    Everyone is using the murder of a policewoman to go on and on about religion of the murderer. I don't care less about his religion.
    I care about a murderer killing police, that's what's important.

    And if the murder of the police officer was directly caused by this persons religious beliefs - are you honestly claiming that's not relevant? And you don't care?

    How can these murders be prevented in the future if we don't explore their motivation?


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    #60
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I don't pay any attention to any of these new things, virtue signalling or echo chambers of any of that other rubbish, I ignore them.
    I'm not downplaying anything.
    Everyone is using the murder of a policewoman to go on and on about religion of the murderer. I don't care less about his religion.
    I care about a murderer killing police, that's what's important.

    And why did he murder the victim? Why did he shout "Allhau Akbar"? Why did Macron reference "Islamic terrorism" in his speech, why did the anti-terror unit take over the investigation?

    Because the attack was religiously motivated, and THAT is why it matters here.


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    #61
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,989 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I find it extremely hard to believe that you don't know what virtue signaling is. Even just posting on this forum would tell you that, but I'll clarify for you .. You seem to be more concerned with downplaying the attacker's links to a radical sect of a religion and what that sect teach with regards to others, than recognising the very real danger and risk it poses.

    Do you really expect people to believe that if the primary reason someone was attacked or killed was religiously motivated or the result of radicalisation, that it doesn't matter? You do realise that without that motivation the attack probably wouldn't have happened in the first place, right?

    I think the point is that 1.8 billion followers, if the religion was the fundamental problem, not the radical extremism, then 1.8 billion people would all be radically violent sociopaths.

    Anders Breivik also cited God. His attack was religiously motivated. Does that put Christians all on trial for his massacre? Should Norway close its borders to all Christians? Should their police profile them all?


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