Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360712#Comment_118360712

I didn't miss them. I ignored them because of your posting style which I am not a fan of and have no wish to engage with. If somebody else wishes to ask me such questions, I'll happily answer them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358605#Comment_118358605

Unfortunately, they insist on replying even when they're on Ignore. There's a poster who has replied to my posts for close to a year even though they're on Ignore.

The problem is that the Ignore function isn't very good. It just blanks the posters out. You still see that they've replied to you.

But it's better than nothing. Reddit is far better. I've read fascinating thins on that forum. The threads aren't ruined by 4 or 5 posters who all say the same thing while at the same time claiming that others want an echo chamber.

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359699#Comment_118359699

if you're going to show data that has a split between vaccinated and unvaccinated, you should at least understand the differences between both and the timelines from when someone who is vaccinated is not considered vaccinated for statistical data collection

Especially when it has been said on here many times that the majority of the reactions generally happen very soon after the vaccines are administered

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359786#Comment_118359786

The WHO has said governments cannot lockdown or vaccinate their way out of this

Lockdowns dont work. It has been proven

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360449#Comment_118360449

save that link because in a few months they will be saying you'll need you're 4th shot to combat omicron

Super immunity....😂😂😂😂😂😂

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360736#Comment_118360736

Ok. At least you're being honest about ignoring them.

However, I think you're actually ignoring them because you can't answer them.

You have no basis for your conclusion and your claim is false.

What would you call it when someone claims something that isn't true and they know they can't back it up?

I call it a lie.

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360719#Comment_118360719

why is there a need to get a vaccine when in general there is a 99.5% survival rate for people under the age of 60?

Eat healthy, stay fit, boost your immune system

Why take a risk on a brand new novel new technology vaccine when you have alternatives?

That figure of 99.5% is without provision of an early treatments that were taken off the market early doors

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360739#Comment_118360739

Again, you can ignore all you like. Others however can read the posts that expose the lies and false hoods you claim.

You don't actually address the content of the posts however, so there's no functional difference.

Lex Luthor

just for the record

Shilock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360657#Comment_118360657

That can't be denied either 🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360778#Comment_118360778

https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---21-august-2020

I believe you're referring to this speech. Firstly, they said lockdowns are not the long term solution and that things like organisation, testing and limiting transmission are key. Basically they emphasise personal responsibility as a part. So people who advocate against masks etc, not helping. On top of that, they stated vaccines aren't the sole part of getting out of the pandemic. But they are a vital part of it, provided we manage to develop one. (From August 2020)

For Ireland, we're in a unique position where we lack ICU capacity. So we do need some degree of lockdown measures. On top of that, covid certs are useful cause they prevent people exposure from higher risk members of the public.(this is also an example of organisational measures that limit need for lockdowns)

Vaccines do work btw. There's a reason why the unvaccinated account for a larger number proportional number of ICU cases. It's because the vaccinated might catch COVID but they're far less likely to get seriously ill.

Lockdowns also work but long term they're not the solution which was the point of the WHO. We would have drastically higher deaths if there weren't lockdowns. On top of that, a collapsed health service.

But sure, you've been told all this before but instead choose to continue to misrepresent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359649#Comment_118359649

No other virus in the history of mankind? So it's worse than the Spanish Flu? Why have so many politicians, in the US and England, in particular, all broken their own rules if they think they're extremely important? Eating out maskless, going to parties maskless. There was even a scientist in England who had an affair while everyone else was ordered to stay at home: Exclusive: Government scientist Neil Ferguson resigns after breaking lockdown rules to meet his married lover (telegraph.co.uk)

I have no issue with the vaccines. There are 4 things I am concerned about. They are:

(1) I am concerned that masks and vaccine passports will not be temporary. Not because I particularly care about Ireland, 'cause it's just not my kind of country, but because there are countries I'd like to go to and it would be very distressing to see masked faces in those countries too. I am also concerned about the billions that have been spent on vaccine passports. That, and the fact that no country that has introduced them has got rid of them, even countries with huge vaccination rates, makes me fear that they won't go.

(2) I am concerned about the Great Reset. I know this isn't the thread for it, but the ideas being put forward by Klaus Schwab are world-changing. He's talking about a new economy, new social and political structures, a new social contract. I fear all of what he's trying to bring about will mean fewer (if that's even possible) freedoms than people have now.

(3) I am concerned about democracy in the West. As John Taylor wrote a long time ago: 'democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.'

(4) I am finally concerned that there is no real exit plan. Sao Paolo, for example, has vaccinated more than 100% of its population, and there are still loads of restrictions there. The reason given is transmission and case numbers. There will always be transmission and there will always be case numbers, so I don't see how endemic covid will ever be accepted by public health officials and/or governments.

I have no issue with the vaccines. I share people's concerns about mandatory vaccination, but I have no issue with the vaccines themselves.

I don't think any of the above are unreasonable concerns. You made a good point before about how life went back to normal after the Spanish Flu, and you mentioned the restrictions that were in place back then, but that was a different world. In the modern world governments are increasingly influenced by social media, for example. Technology is ultra advanced now, so it's not impossible to see vaccine passports morphing into a digital pass. I don't say it will, but that the technology is there for it to.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360861#Comment_118360861

I have no issue with the vaccines. I share people's concerns about mandatory vaccination, but I have no issue with the vaccines themselves.

This is a lie.

You have supported the claims that the vaccines are dangerous and not once have you countered or challeneged any of your conspiracy theory buddies who continuously claim they are dangerous.

And again, your concern is that there is a global plot to install a worldwide communist government that will turn people into cyborgs and that all of this was predicted in the bible and in a children's song.

Your concern is not reasonable.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360834#Comment_118360834

Vaccines do work btw. There's a reason why the unvaccinated account for a larger number proportional number of ICU cases. It's because the vaccinated might catch COVID but they're far less likely to get seriously ill.

Vaccines do work even though the vaccinated might catch COVID? Every single symptomatic infection in the fully vaccinated is a failure of the vaccine and there are an awful lot of them.

Yes vaccines are proving effective at reducing the severity of the outcome if you get covid, but they are not working anywhere near as well as expected in terms of preventing symptomatic infection in the first place - the main point of a vaccine.

There is a reason breakthrough infections are called breakthrough infections - because they have broken through the protection the vaccine was intended to provide.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360911#Comment_118360911

And another lie.

The vaccines in addition to reducing the chances of severe disease, it also reduces the changes of infection and spreading.

You are repeating the anti-vaxx notion that if the vaccine isn't 100% effective, it's not effective.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360924#Comment_118360924

Also, just worth pointing out that when the vaccines were launched. All the studies pointed to the fact that they tended to prevent catching it at around 60%. They prevented serious illness in high 90s which is pretty key.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360980#Comment_118360980

I'm also not sure what that has to do with topic of the thread.

Looks like conspiracy theorists are trying to deflect before they're cornered. Again.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360911#Comment_118360911

Exhausted doctor says most patients in intensive care are not vaccinated

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/TStv8h

But you know more than medical professionals right? 🙄

Fighting Tao

It didn’t take long for another new poster to turn. Pretending one thing and then within a short period being quite different. If I was skeptical, I’d say we have seen them before.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360824#Comment_118360824

youre arguing with no one here

anyone who has been vaccinated knows it doesn't officially fully hit in until 14 days after the jab.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361025#Comment_118361025

Perhaps you missed the bit in the post you quoted:

Yes vaccines are proving effective at reducing the severity of the outcome if you get covid

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360834#Comment_118360834

"covid certs are useful cause they prevent people exposure from higher risk members of the public"

How does a piece of paper prevent exposure? And who are these higher risk members of the public you mention?

"There's a reason why the unvaccinated account for a larger number proportional number of ICU cases"

Like I said already, the data showing the cases between vaccinated and unvaccinated needs to be broken down further before it can be considered worth debating, as like I mentioned a person isnt classified as fully vaccinated until after 14 days of getting the shot. This could mean that the majority of people in hospital could have had their 2nd dose and within that 14 day window

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360924#Comment_118360924

according to the so called "experts", its well known vaccines effectiveness is waning after a couple of months, they were never 100%

Can you put a number on its effectiveness to reduce the chances of infection & spreading?

Friends wife just got her booster, she has been floored for a few days with it and everyone else in house is fine

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361025#Comment_118361025

when they break it down, we'll take it more seriously

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361051#Comment_118361051

The salient point is most people with severe covid symptoms are unvaccinated.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361169#Comment_118361169

It may be true but that alone does not make it the most salient.

And it certainly does not contradict the fact that each symptomatic infection in the fully vaccinated is a failure of the protection the vaccine was intended to provide.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361204#Comment_118361204

Thanks for proving that you are absolutely clueless about vaccines and how they work.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361300#Comment_118361300

And that comment does not contradict my point either. Happy to debate the point if you wish, who knows, one of us might learn something and end up a little less clueless.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361339#Comment_118361339

Because each symptomatic infection in the fully vaccinated person isn't a failure of the vaccine as you state. There's a very high probability that the symptoms would have been more severe if the person was unvaccinated.

That's the facts backed up my numerous research studies. Refusing to believe doesn't make it any less true.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361392#Comment_118361392

Yes it is true that if you are vaccinated and you catch symptomatic covid then the symptoms are likely to be less severe. I am not refusing to believe that, the data is overwhelming.

But in that case the vaccine is acting more like an anti viral drug - i.e it lessens the severity of the disease - and less like a vaccine - i.e it did not protect you from developing, and transmitting, the disease it was intended to stop you developing.

I am not claiming that I expect zero breakthrough infections, that's totally unrealistic. But I am saying that each breakthrough infection is a failure of intended outcome of vaccination. As I said earlier, that is exactly why they are called breakthrough infections.

And with the covid vaccines there are a huge amount of breakthrough infections, thus transmissions, thus rising case numbers and thus severe outcomes, and thus inability to get back to normal without threat of restrictions etc.

This is not what was expected 12 months ago, the vaccines are not doing as good a job as expected/hoped for - there are considerably more breakthrough infections than anticipated.

Refusing to believe/accept that doesn't make it any less true.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361464#Comment_118361464

What the lay person doesn't understand is that science isn't black and white. It's all controlled on statistics. Chemical reactions never go to 100% completion and vaccines will never be 100% effective. No vaccine is 100% effective and effectiveness will depend on a number of factors such as the vaccine and the disease. It's all about getting as high percentage of effectiveness as possible and it's quite difficult with a disease that is as contagious as Covid-19. That's also exasperated by unvaccinated people who bring down the effectiveness of the vaccine by being high risk vectors of the vaccine. The vaccine also provides protection from catching it (you need a much higher viral load before you catch the virus compared to an unvaccinated person) and also are less likely to spread the virus due to the protection of the vaccine. It all adds up.

If you were expecting the vaccine to be a silver bullet to covid then you were looking for the impossible. It actualyl could be in an ideal world but we don't live in an ideal world. Of course with a very high roll out of vaccination we could effectively eliminate the virus if the R value could be reduced permanently to lower than 1 but that isn't happening with the amount of anti-vaxxers and the lack of vaccination for less well off countries leading to mutations. This is exasperated by how contagious Covid is.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361517#Comment_118361517

Chemical reactions never go to 100% completion and vaccines will never be 100% effective.

I specifically said I wasn't expecting 100%. That is totally unrealistic.

No vaccine is 100% effective and effectiveness will depend on a number of factors such as the vaccine and the disease.

Totally agree, and in this case this vaccine is not doing as good a job as hoped for in preventing infections of this disease. That's my entire point.

What the lay person doesn't understand is that science isn't black and white. It's all controlled on statistics.

And the statistics are showing very high levels of vaccination failure.

It's not only the lay person that has noticed it. Our own Chief Medical Officer has commented on it:

He said: “Unfortunately, in crude terms, the vaccinations have probably done a little better than we might have hoped in terms of preventing severe infection.

“They have performed and held up their performance really well in protecting people from the severe effects of the disease.

“In truth they are probably not performing as well as we might have hoped in terms of preventing transmission.

“There is an impact on transmission by and to people who are vaccinated, but it’s not as great as we might like.

"It is possible for people who are infected, and who were vaccinated, to be infected and to transmit that infection."

Shilock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361036#Comment_118361036

You just cannot help yourself trying to derail the thread, what is it with you and a few others talking about other posters.

Are you here for the discussion about the original post or just the posters ?

Retr0gamer

It's still preventing transmission and infection. Things would be way worse without them.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361605#Comment_118361605

If you have a problem with my posts then report them. Let’s call a spade a spade, and the fact that multiple new posters have derailed the conversation pretending to be one thing, but then exposing their true colours very shortly after is one hell of a coincidence.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361123#Comment_118361123

Why are you asking when you've dodged and lied about every single fact you've claimed.

I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim that 30000 people have died due to the vaccine.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why you lied about the adverse effects reports.

You are very selective about what you respond to and how.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361590#Comment_118361590

By how much does the vaccines reduce transmission?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361464#Comment_118361464

Let's look at what the Vaccines (including boosters) actually do do in the current situation ->

+ prevent severe illness and death (particularly important in the case of at-risk people)

+ reduce the chances of developing Long Covid (which is looking like a chronic illness for some people)

+ reduces your chance of developing symptomatic Covid

+ reduces the chance of becoming infected

+ reduces the time that a person is infectious in the first place so reduces spread.

The vaccines and boosters reduce the severity of restrictions required as the effects above reduce the impacts on the health care systems.

Even a small child would know that restrictions would be way worse than what they are without vaccines (and boosters etc).

There are no readily available (right now) effective anti-viral drugs right now so vaccinations remain the best protection until then. Even then vaccines will play an important role. It's unknown how long drugs like Pavloxid will remain effective for "in the wild".

And with the covid vaccines there are a huge amount of breakthrough infections, thus transmissions, thus rising case numbers and thus severe outcomes, and thus inability to get back to normal without threat of restrictions etc.

This is not what was expected 12 months ago, the vaccines are not doing as good a job as expected/hoped for - there are considerably more breakthrough infections than anticipated.

Like who exactly can and did predict how a novel virus will evolve exactly and how the pandemic will play out?

This point is mere semantics at this juncture.

It's the actual reality that counts and Vaccines are still providing HUGE benefits.

RoboRat

The definition of a vaccine is as follows: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

A vaccine doesn't guarantee that you won't stop transmission of the virus. This is because viruses mutate and a vaccine can only be developed with an existing strain of the virus. When the virus mutates, it tends to keep a lot of the initial characteristics, hence why a vaccine can still be effective in combating serious illness. The mutation generally makes the virus more transmissible as the sole purpose of a virus is to reproduce.

The polio vaccine for instance doesn't stop transmission, IPV prevents infection but not transmissibility. Yet, the Polio vaccine is regarded as a huge success in combating Polio. Whilst the vaccine doesn't stop the spread, it gives your body the tools to fight it and therefore you reduce the chance of serious disease and you recover quicker, therefore reducing the time the virus is in your body, and in turn reducing the likelihood of passing it on.

I think a lot of people don't quite understand the purpose of a vaccine.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361974#Comment_118361974

Can you share the source of the information that the polio vaccine doesn’t stop transmission?

id certainly agree with you that a lot of people don’t quite understand the purpose of a vaccine.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362020#Comment_118362020

https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/pages/news/news/2016/04/poliomyelitis-polio-and-the-vaccines-used-to-eradicate-it-questions-and-answers#:~:text=IPV%20produces%20antibodies%20in%20the,stop%20transmission%20of%20the%20virus.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361605#Comment_118361605

I suggest Ignore. They'll keep replying, but at least it will be faded out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362089#Comment_118362089

RoboRat, how do you ever see this ending? There is an obsessions with case numbers and transmission. Even when it's endemic, if it isn't already in some countries, there will be cases and transmission. So how does it end? The media will never stop reporting on cases every day.

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361169#Comment_118361169

This information is open to interpretation as "unvaccinated" can be someone who has taken 1 or 2 shots but hasnt passed the 14 day timeline

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361392#Comment_118361392

"There's a very high probability that the symptoms would have been more severe if the person was unvaccinated."

This is still not confirmed

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361517#Comment_118361517

it has been confirmed that a fully vaccinated person contains at least the same viral load in the nasal area as an unvaccinated perosn

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361517#Comment_118361517

"That's also exasperated by unvaccinated people who bring down the effectiveness of the vaccine by being high risk vectors of the vaccine"

can you elaborate more on this statement?

How does an unvaccinated person bring down the effectiveness of a vaccine?

What about natural immunity?

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361606#Comment_118361606

its actually not

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362089#Comment_118362089

So a specific type of polio vaccine IPV prevents infection but not transmission. But presumably people who are not infected are not transmitting much.

And the other one OPV, a person becomes immune for life and can no longer transmit the virus to others if exposed again.

Sounds like a petty good vaccine and it’s no wonder that the polio vaccine is regarded a huge success as you say.

and it’s a good example of the fact that not all vaccines are created equally.

Lex Luthor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361663#Comment_118361663

pot - kettle