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Brian Fenton - Overrated?

  • 17-04-2021 11:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    I've seen this lad touted as one of the best player to ever play the game the last few years, regularly. He's not even the best mid Dublin ever had, let alone the best Dublin player ever, let alone the best player ever. He's consistent and solid in a team that dominates, but not fit to lace the boots of the likes of Matt Connor or Maurice Fitzgerald.

    I've also noticed anytime he's come up against Jack Barry from Kerry he's very quite, Barry hardly a Kerry all time great. Barry is a throw back to a midfielder of the past, maybe slow but can pick balls out of the air, a serious operator. Never seen Fenton get the better of him when Barry is on the field, even if Kerry lose.

    If this Dublin side came up against the Meath teams of old, with Meaths hardened midfielders, I think Fenton would be made look decidedly average. Never seen such hype for a yes, good and consistent player, but all time great? No way. Everything seems the "best ever" nowadays with modern hype. He's a good solid player, nothing more surely?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    :pac:

    Someone clearly having a few cans of a Saturday. Barry was always put out to just do a job on Fenton and nothing else. That says enough that a team is willing to.sacrafice their own midfielder to try to counter his influence.

    Fenton is the GOAT and its not even debatable. Not only is he the GOAT midfielder, he is one of the very best to ever play the game.

    Unbeaten in inter county championship so far. I'd say his losses for Dublin you could count on one hand, though I cant be bothered to check. Possibly draws too.

    A strange one that you think hes overrated at all tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,279 ✭✭✭ StupidLikeAFox


    dobman88 wrote: »
    Fenton is the GOAT and its not even debatable. Not only is he the GOAT midfielder, he is one of the very best to ever play the game.

    Ah here, he is an incredible player but let's not get too carried away


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    It’s hard to judge any Dublin player over the past 5 years because they never have to play under the cosh. Some are going through their careers largely untested in the real white heat of battle. It makes for a dull spectacle. Fenton has never lost a championship game shur.

    They most remarkable thing about Fenton is I’ve never seen him tired in a game. He just operates on cruise control and his cardio blows away an Aidan O’Shea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    dobman88 wrote: »
    :pac:

    Someone clearly having a few cans of a Saturday. Barry was always put out to just do a job on Fenton and nothing else. That says enough that a team is willing to.sacrafice their own midfielder to try to counter his influence.

    Fenton is the GOAT and its not even debatable. Not only is he the GOAT midfielder, he is one of the very best to ever play the game.

    Unbeaten in inter county championship so far. I'd say his losses for Dublin you could count on one hand, though I cant be bothered to check. Possibly draws too.

    A strange one that you think hes overrated at all tbh.

    It's a team game. Fenton is hardly the crux to their success. Any decent midfielder would be touted as the best ever in his role, in that juggernaut of a team.

    Barry was put on him to do a job? Well he did a job on him repeatedly, hardly the hallmark off a great if Barry comes off each game the more impressive, whether Kerry win or lose. What stands out for me in the final and replay Kerry lost, is Barry pulling ball after ball out of the sky, with Fenton doing very little


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    It's a team game. Fenton is hardly the crux to their success. Any decent midfielder would be touted as the best ever in his role, in that juggernaut of a team.

    Barry was put on him to do a job? Well he did a job on him repeatedly, hardly the hallmark off a great if Barry comes off each game the more impressive, whether Kerry win or lose. What stands out for me in the final and replay Kerry lost, is Barry pulling ball after ball out of the sky, with Fenton doing very little

    Well. I disagree. So I'll leave you to whatever point you're trying to make.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    dobman88 wrote: »
    Well. I disagree. So I'll leave you to whatever point you're trying to make.

    He's overrated. You implied he was quite against Barry because Barry was sent out only to do that job, surely the greatest ever could shake Barry and come out looking better? Barry a middling Kerry player let's not forget. Looked a world beater v Fenton


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    It’s hard to judge any Dublin player over the past 5 years because they never have to play under the cosh. Some are going through their careers largely untested in the real white heat of battle. It makes for a dull spectacle. Fenton has never lost a championship game shur.

    They most remarkable thing about Fenton is I’ve never seen him tired in a game. He just operates on cruise control and his cardio blows away an Aidan O’Shea.

    I'd love to see them come up against a Meath team of old. Meath given the benefits of today's fitness, diets, science of the game etc. They'd do a job on this Dublin team imo, no competition at that level anymore. A Meath team is old would rattle them, this Dublin team has never faced something like that


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ Billy Ocean


    Dont like comparing era's with changes in playing style, S&C etc. but I would have to rate him as the best midfielder of his generation, well aware of the quality around him but he has everything you would want from a modern day midfielder. Not a Dub BTW


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    He almost certainly is the GOAT.

    Whether it’s a gaa player or a soccer player I judge players’ talent by the amount of tools they have.

    Fenton has all the tools. He has all the skills of the game in and out of possession. He scores in every game he plays.

    His body type is that of a middle distance Olympic track athlete.

    It’s just a pity we’ve never seen him or his team put under that much pressure.

    I’m not from Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    I'd love to see them come up against a Meath team of old. Meath given the benefits of today's fitness, diets, science of the game etc. They'd do a job on this Dublin team imo, no competition at that level anymore. A Meath team is old would rattle them, this Dublin team has never faced something like that

    I’d put that firmly in the maybe pile. Especially if the ref was applying today’s rules rather than the 90s where foul play was often rewarded instead of punished. That isn’t a go at meath, it’s just a very different game now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    Dont like comparing era's with changes in playing style, S&C etc. but I would have to rate him as the best midfielder of his generation, well aware of the quality around him but he has everything you would want from a modern day midfielder.

    He's the best of his generation, but the standard is dire, midfield in particular. Even traditional countys like Meath, Cork or Galway are poor by their own standard's.

    I just don't think he's been tested to the point he could be called anywhere near the greatest. And as I said, Jack Barry, has looked more impressive anytime I've seen them face off. Barry a man who strikes me as someone who plays now and again, casually when it takes his fancy


  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭ franciscanpunk


    i think he absolute quality and has brought more scores into his game in recent times. not saying he is best ever but the he deserves to be included in any of the conversations his name gets mentioned in, 2 poty 6 all irelands, great footballer. if his career keeps going ob the way it has to now it would be hard to call him anything other than the best ever


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ Billy Ocean


    He's the best of his generation, but the standard is dire, midfield in particular. Even traditional countys like Meath, Cork or Galway are poor by their own standard's.

    I just don't think he's been tested to the point he could be called anywhere near the greatest. And as I said, Jack Barry, has looked more impressive anytime I've seen them face off. Barry a man who strikes me as someone who plays now and again, casually when it takes his fancy
    In terms of fitness I'd argue the standards have never been higher, in terms of a spectacle the game might not be in a great state with players over programmed and attacking talent not having as much opportunity to flourish, the whole traditional man on man element is not a pronounced now with teams obsessed with structures and not leaving there defenders 1 on 1 with marquee forwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    I'll put it this way. This Dublin side has faced 2 teams that are serious opponents, Mayo and Kerry. Mayo are a soft touch let's be honest, and O'Shea is a micronism for their bottling nature imo.

    So we're left with Kerry. Their midfielder to face Fenton, let's face it, the part time Jack Barry who's in and out of the team. Can anyone really say, Fenton the best ever, came out looking the better against his part time adversary in any game, his only competition really? If anyone is honest with themselves the answer is no.

    Yet people call him the best ever. I must say, if that's the case, Kerry people seriously underrate Jack Barry. Dominated midfield against Dublin anytime he's been on the pitch imo, league or championship and has done it consistently


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ Billy Ocean


    I'll put it this way. This Dublin side has faced 2 teams that are serious opponents, Mayo and Kerry. Mayo are a soft touch let's be honest, and O'Shea is a micronism for their bottling nature imo.

    So we're left with Kerry. Their midfielder to face Fenton, let's face it, the part time Jack Barry who's in and out of the team. Can anyone really say, Fenton the best ever, came out looking the better against his part time adversary in any game, his only competition really? If anyone is honest with themselves the answer is no.

    Yet people call him the best ever. I must say, if that's the case, Kerry people seriously underrate Jack Barry. Dominated midfield against Dublin anytime he's been on the pitch imo, league or championship and has done it consistently
    Seems to be a Eamon Dunphy/ Wes Holohan vibe to yourself and Jack Barry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    Yeah maybe drop the Jack Barry obsession, just analyze Fenton as a player and tell us where you think where his weaknesses are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    Seems to be a Eamon Dunphy/ Wes Holohan vibe to yourself and Jack Barry.

    No, but what other test has Fenton had? That's it, literally. And he didn't pass that test imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    Yeah maybe drop the Jack Barry obsession, just analyze Fenton as a player and tell us where you think where his weaknesses are.

    It's not an obsession. I'm not from Kerry nor care about Barry. But he's been Fenton's only real challenge on the big stage, and outperformed him repeatedly. This a subpar Kerry player versus the greatest of all time we're told.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    Unfortunately The best midfielder in the past few years apart from Fenton is Gary Brennan but Brennan played for a county that couldn’t hold a candle to Dublin.

    The frustration of the intercounty limitations mean the best don’t get to face their rivals all that much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    It's not an obsession. I'm not from Kerry nor care about Barry. But he's been Fenton's only real challenge on the big stage, and outperformed him repeatedly. This a subpar Kerry player versus the greatest of all time we're told.

    If you want to properly judge players judge them on their merits. Pick out weaknesses in Fenton’s game. If you can’t then ask yourself...if there’s a reason why you can’t.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    I’d put that firmly in the maybe pile. Especially if the ref was applying today’s rules rather than the 90s where foul play was often rewarded instead of punished. That isn’t a go at meath, it’s just a very different game now.

    An old Meath team would rattle them and put doubt in their head. Hit them hard unlike anything they've ever faced. Hypothetical but this Dublin team wouldn't know what hit them imo. And if the game was in the melting pot Meath would have had the nerve to down them, infact that's when Meath were at their best. Too many teams panic v Dublin now. They are fortunate they never crossed the Meath teams of old imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ Billy Ocean


    It's not an obsession. I'm not from Kerry nor care about Barry. But he's been Fenton's only real challenge on the big stage, and outperformed him repeatedly. This a subpar Kerry player versus the greatest of all time we're told.
    Would the fact Kerry put so much envious on trying to stop Fenton show how highly they rate him?

    They essentially approached him the same way a team would for Clifford, O'Callaghan, Michael Murphy etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    If you want to properly judge players judge them on their merits. Pick out weaknesses in Fenton’s game. If you can’t then ask yourself...if there’s a reason why you can’t.

    John McDermott never had a weakness either per say. Nor did Niall Buckley from Kildare. Doesn't mean they were the greatest. They had real competition though


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    Would the fact Kerry put so much envious on trying to stop Fenton show how highly they rate him?

    They essentially approached him the same way a team would for Clifford, O'Callaghan, Michael Murphy etc.

    The only way they approached him was to put Barry in midfield. Nothing else was needed, as Barry had done him in the league. It's not as if they were out putting 3 players on him


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    An old Meath team would rattle them and put doubt in their head. Hit then hard unlike anything they've ever faced. Hypothetical but this Dublin team wouldn't know what hit them imo. And if the game was in the melting pot Meath would have the nerve to down them, infact that's when Meath are at their best. Too many teams panic v Dublin now. They are fortunate they never crossed the Meath teams of old imo

    Personally I think any county team from this era would destroy any county team from the 90s. The games of old were exciting but the carefree attitude towards possession, the absolutely awful shot selection and the constant stupid fouling are just a handful of the reasons I’d see it as lopsided.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ Billy Ocean


    The only way the approached him was to put Barry in midfield. Nothing else was needed, as Barry had done him in the league. It's not as if they were out putting 3 players on him
    you still haven't been able to identify an weakness in Fenton's game...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    Personally I think any county team from this era would destroy any county team from the 90s. The games of old were exciting but the carefree attitude towards possession, the absolutely awful shot selection and the constant stupid fouling are just a handful of the reasons I’d see it as lopsided.

    Ye if you brought the team of old straight into this era. But give them the same benefits, or take away the current benefits of Dublin and level the playing field it's different game. Talent doesn't change era to era, standards do


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭ Cilldara_2000


    Maybe he just had a bad day but in a bad Kildare team, Kevin Feely gave him a lesson in fielding in 2017.

    He's a good solid player and would be a huge bonus to any county but this GOAT stuff is nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭ The Golden Miller


    you still haven't been able to identify an weakness in Fenton's game...

    He wilts on the big occasion, when he meets someone who's a match for him. Niall Buckley didn't despite winning very little. If Niall Buckley, Ciaran Whelan or John McDermott played in this Dublin team, they'd be the GOAT too


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ Did you smash it


    John McDermott never had a weakness either per say. Nor did Niall Buckley from Kildare. Doesn't mean they were the greatest. They had real competition though

    Don’t remember McDermott or Buckley ever scoring near to the level Fenton does from play.

    McDermott was a tough excellent midfielder but I don’t think he has near the skill level Fenton possesses.


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