Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Brian Fenton - Overrated?

Options
24

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Did you smash it
    Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    He wilts on the big occasion

    C’mon like.. he’s never lost a championship game. I know you believe your own argument and that’s fair enough but you can’t expect anyone else to be convinced by that argument. If he wilted on big days he wouldn’t be in the Dublin team, nevermind player of the year.


  • Options
    #33
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    He wilts on the big occasion, when he meets someone who's a match for him. Niall Buckley didn't despite winning very little. If Niall Buckley, Ciaran Whelan or John McDermott played in this Dublin team, they'd be the GOAT too
    Wilts on the big occasion!! Dublin whatever people's opinion is of them have won numerous games down the final stretch against Kerry and Mayo in the last 6-7 years with Fenton been instrumental in that, I'm starting to think you need to lay off the cans.


  • Options
    #34
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Did you smash it wrote: »
    Don’t remember McDermott or Buckley ever scoring near to the level Fenton does from play.

    McDermott was a tough excellent midfielder but I don’t think he has near the skill level Fenton possesses.

    They never had a set up as handy, back door or multiple other factors in their favour. You really believe, if playing in this Dublin team, they wouldn't do what Fenton does and more? They carried teams when all odds were stacked against them, were giants when the crunch came down, never once was Fenton in that position


  • Options
    #35
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Billy Ocean wrote: »
    Wilts on the big occasion!! Dublin whatever people's opinion is of them have won numerous games down the final stretch against Kerry and Mayo in the last 6-7 years with Fenton been instrumental in that, I'm starting to think you need to lay off the cans.

    He was part of a great team. I don't remember him ever being instrumental against Kerry, as he was in Jack Barry's pocket, who played two huge games against Dublin and laid the foundation for Kerry's fight from the center.

    Dublin would of over run Kerry in both games in the final only for Barry, who broke up everything and fielded everything to turn the possession back on Dublin. Fenton was a bystander, Barry was immense. That's the reality


  • Options
    #36
    Did you smash it
    Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    They never had a set up as handy, back door or multiple other factors in their favour. You really believe, if playing in this Dublin team, they wouldn't do what Fenton does and more? They carried teams when all odds were stacked against them, were giants when the crunch came down, never once was Fenton in that position

    I know it, McDermott wasn’t a very skillful player. He was a brilliant fielder and physical presence but Fenton has those attributes and skill and incomparable fitness levels plus 3 more all Ireland’s and a POTY.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Did you smash it wrote: »
    I know it, McDermott wasn’t a very skillful player. He was a brilliant fielder and physical presence but Fenton has those attributes and skill and incomparable fitness levels plus 3 more all Ireland’s and a POTY.

    He's simply been never tested imo to be called the greatest, or come anywhere close. That's not to say he wouldn't if tested, but his performances v Kerry leave alot to be desired imo. That's all I can rate him on really


  • Options
    #38
    Did you smash it
    Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    He's simply been never tested imo to be called the greatest, or come anywhere close. That's not to say he wouldn't if tested, but his performances v Kerry leave alot to be desired imo. That's all I can rate him on really

    I agree he hasn’t been tested as Dublin are largely unbeatable. And that’s a pity.

    But I rate players by the tools they have. Fenton has all the tools. His competition doesn’t.


  • Options
    #39
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    He's simply been never tested imo to be called the greatest, or come anywhere close. That's not to say he wouldn't if tested, but his performances v Kerry leave alot to be desired imo. That's all I can rate him on really
    think you're over egging the Kerry element too, Barry did a great job on him in the drawn game in 2019, can't remember Fenton been anonymous outside of that, obviously not as important but in the league game between the teams in 2020 when crowds could go I think Fenton might even have been man of the match.


  • Options
    #40
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Did you smash it wrote: »
    I agree he hasn’t been tested as Dublin are largely unbeatable. And that’s a pity.

    But I rate players by the tools they have. Fenton has all the tools. His competition doesn’t.

    The greatest in any era will be great in any era. That I'm not disputing. He would be great in any era. But there seems to be a narrative of calling him the greatest ever which I have a gripe with. He simply can't be put ahead of players who went through brick walls for their team like McDermott when under serious pressure, who came out on top

    People are too quick to come out with this GOAT stuff. I hate Kildare, but Niall Buckley was a force of nature, the best midfielder I ever saw. For people to so casually put Fenton ahead of him is wrong on many levels


  • Options
    #41
    Did you smash it
    Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    The greatest in any era will be great in any era. That I'm not disputing. He would be great in any era. But there seems to be a narrative of calling him the greatest ever which I have a gripe with. He simply can't be put ahead of players who went through brick walls for their team like McDermott when under serious pressure, who came out on top

    People are too quick to come out with this GOAT stuff. I hate Kildare, but Niall Buckley was a force of nature, the best midfielder I ever saw. For people to so casually put Fenton ahead of him is wrong on many levels

    Well fair enough, Buckley and McDermott (and Tohill) were great in their era.

    You put their CVs against Fenton’s and it tells a story.

    You analyze Fenton’s game for weaknesses and again it tells a story.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Billy Ocean wrote: »
    think you're over egging the Kerry element too, Barry did a great job on him in the drawn game in 2019, can't remember Fenton been anonymous outside of that, obviously not as important but in the league game between the teams in 2020 when crowds could go I think Fenton might even have been man of the match.

    Your dismissing the league game too. That's the point. Fenton's only true competition has been against Barry, and on the 4 occasions they met I think it was, Barry did him.

    Point is Barry is a middling player. If he's more than fit for Fenton, how on earth is he the GOAT? When his only competition regularly out performs him, a man not even guaranteed a spot in the Kerry team


  • Options
    #43
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Did you smash it wrote: »
    Well fair enough, Buckley and McDermott (and Tohill) were great in their era.

    You put their CVs against Fenton’s and it tells a story.

    You analyze Fenton’s game for weaknesses and again it tells a story.

    If Buckley was in this Dublin team his CV would be the same, only he'd have been man of the match v Kerry. He was big in stature, Jack Barry made Fenton look small in stature. Therein lies his weakness


  • Options
    #44
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Your dismissing the league game too. That's the point. Fenton's only true competition has been against Barry, and on the 4 occasions they met I think it was, Barry did him.

    Point is Barry is a middling player. If he's more than fit for Fenton, how on earth is he the GOAT? When his only competition regularly out performs him, a man not even guaranteed a spot in the Kerry team
    I never said Fenton was the GOAT, I said Fenton was the best midfielder of his generation, you agreed, you also said Fenton is overrated I think that's rubbish.As I mentioned previously I think comparing era's is almost pointless but I would say Fenton and O'Callaghan are arguably the really special players currently in the Dublin team, McCaffrey if he was there you could make an argument for, Cluxton is unbelievable but does have an armchair ride at times while Kilkenny and McCarthy are relentless,very consistent and good leaders.


  • Options
    #45
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Billy Ocean wrote: »
    I never said Fenton was the GOAT, I said Fenton was the best midfielder of his generation, you agreed, you also said Fenton is overrated I think that's rubbish.As I mentioned previously I think comparing era's is almost pointless but I would say Fenton and O'Callaghan are arguably the really special players currently in the Dublin team, McCaffrey if he was there you could make an argument for, Cluxton is unbelievable but does have an armchair ride at times while Kilkenny and McCarthy are relentless,very consistent and good leaders.

    I never said you said he was the GOAT, I said many people think he is, hence the fact I say he's overrated and the point of the thread.

    He's the best midfielder of his generation as the competition is poor, but for professionalism and consistency he's the only candidate. But if I had to pick a midfielder to field balls that my life depended on, I'd take Jack Barry over him anyday, which isn't a great indictment of someone people call the best ever


  • Options
    #46
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    It must be said though, Jack Barry gets a raw deal and is very underrated. I'm not from Kerry but he seems to get criticism for not being fit enough or inconsistent, to the point he can't hold down a regular spot.

    But when the chips are down against Dublin they call upon him. It says alot that the greatest team of all time, containing apparently the best player of all time, will rather bypass midfield when he's on the pitch than go through midfield. Big game player who dominates the whole half way line with a huge presence. Brushed Fenton off like he was nothing, particularly in the first drawn game


  • Options
    #47
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    It must be said though, Jack Barry gets a raw deal and is very underrated. I'm not from Kerry but he seems to get criticism for not being fit enough or inconsistent, to the point he can't hold down a regular spot.

    But when the chips are down against Dublin they call upon him. It says alot that the greatest team of all time, containing apparently the best player of all time, will rather bypass midfield when he's on the pitch than go through midfield. Big game player who dominates the whole half way line with a huge presence. Brushed Fenton off like he was nothing, particularly in the first drawn game
    jeez you were all over the place, went from calling Jack Barry average to very underrated, also don't think people are as dismissive of him as you makeout.


  • Options
    #48
    Hammar
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Hammar


    He's the best all round midfielder in the naughties...he's a brilliant player and is in no way overrated.
    I don't think you can can compare modern midfielders easily to the best of the 80's,90's and 00's, the role is vastly different in the present game.


  • Options
    #49
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    The way The Golden Miller is talking about the Meath team in the 80's you'd swear they were the best to ever grace the sport!

    Have a look at some of them games from the 80's on YouTube and you'll quickly realise the standard is awful.

    The only way that Meath would be able to handle the Dublin team of today along with Fenton would be to resort to the darks arts that they were able to get away with back then.


  • Options
    #50
    External Association
    Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    An old Meath team would rattle them and put doubt in their head. Hit them hard unlike anything they've ever faced. Hypothetical but this Dublin team wouldn't know what hit them imo. And if the game was in the melting pot Meath would have had the nerve to down them, infact that's when Meath were at their best. Too many teams panic v Dublin now. They are fortunate they never crossed the Meath teams of old imo

    That's nostalgic BS. An old Meath team wouldn't get near today's players.

    Liam Hayes had a few spectacular moments but was often marked out of games for long periods. Joe Cassells and McEntee were solid midfielders but nothing special.

    John McDermott was a very good midfielder but the game has changed. He wouldn't have the scoring skill of Fenton. Nigel Crawford, average.

    Brian Mullins, Jack O'Shea were better than McDermott.

    Brian McGilligan, Kevin Walsh, Shea Fahy, Darragh O'Shea, Liam McHale, Dermot Early senior, Paul McGrane, Niall Buckley etc all as good as McDermott.

    Nothing terribly special about Meath midfielders. In the Dublin v Meath 1991 games Dublin dominated midfield throughout.


  • Options
    #51
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    It must be said though, Jack Barry gets a raw deal and is very underrated. I'm not from Kerry but he seems to get criticism for not being fit enough or inconsistent, to the point he can't hold down a regular spot.

    But when the chips are down against Dublin they call upon him. It says alot that the greatest team of all time, containing apparently the best player of all time, will rather bypass midfield when he's on the pitch than go through midfield. Big game player who dominates the whole half way line with a huge presence. Brushed Fenton off like he was nothing, particularly in the first drawn game

    I hope the head is not too bad today. That must have been some feed of beer you had yesterday. Or you just decided to be a little mischievous and throw out a wind-up in the middle of the night.

    You mentioned that Fenton is not the greatest midfielder that Dublin had. Out of curiosity, what other Dublin midfielder would you deem to be better than Fenton.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    rpurfield
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    We really need more late night can induced threads in here :pac:

    You can't compare eras, only the other week I sat down to watch Meath v Kerry from 2001 (on Youtube btw) and I text one of my mates to say the amount of turn overs would give you anxiety watching it. That was "only" 20 years ago!

    What I would say about Fenton we ask the young lads on our U13 team to watch him in games. His positioning and awareness is savage. Even little things like knowing what side to have the ball on to protect it in a tackle a suprising amount of inter county lads don't have that awareness. Its easy to say he looks good because the Dubs are streets ahead, but they are streets ahead because of lads like him. I still think you could throw him into any team at the minute and he'd improve them right away by a decent margin.


  • Options
    #53
    elefant
    Registered Users Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭elefant


    He's probably the best player of the modern era and so, accepting that, it's somewhat axiomatic that he's the best player ever.

    Any of the top teams today would annihilate the teams of the 90s and every decade before that. Say what you want about 'if the Meath team of the 90s had access to modern sports science', they didn't and Brian Fenton would complete dominate them.


  • Options
    #54
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Terrible thread.


  • Options
    #55
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Golden Miller MIA sense Saturday night, must be a 2 day hangover.


  • Options
    #56
    rpurfield
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    Billy Ocean wrote: »
    Golden Miller MIA sense Saturday night, must be a 2 day hangover.

    Happens when you get older Billy. Don’t blame the OP


  • Options
    #57
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,841 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    No, but what other test has Fenton had? That's it, literally. And he didn't pass that test imo

    His collection of medals....

    Leinster Titles : 6

    All Ireland’s : 6

    Leagues : 3

    All Stars : 5


    He is as of 6 weeks ago.... 28 years of age...

    More..

    Footballer of the year in 2018 & 2020

    He’s past every test that has been going and some.

    Underrated if anything.


  • Options
    #58
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    He was part of a great team. I don't remember him ever being instrumental against Kerry, as he was in Jack Barry's pocket, who played two huge games against Dublin and laid the foundation for Kerry's fight from the center.

    Dublin would of over run Kerry in both games in the final only for Barry, who broke up everything and fielded everything to turn the possession back on Dublin. Fenton was a bystander, Barry was immense. That's the reality
    He was man of the match in the 2015 A.I. final.


    Against Kerry.


  • Options
    #59
    thesultan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭thesultan


    A great player but Jacko is the best I've seen..


  • Options
    #60
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Has there ever been a midfielder that scored even half as much from play as Fenton? Granted he's on an amazing team that runs up the score against dross, but still his stats in that regard appear incredible. I worked out to win an argument a few years back that Paul Conroy had been the highest scoring midfielder for a couple of years period and Fenton is certainly now outscoring that rate 2:1 at least


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,753 ✭✭✭corny


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Has there ever been a midfielder that scored even half as much from play as Fenton? Granted he's on an amazing team that runs up the score against dross, but still his stats in that regard appear incredible. I worked out to win an argument a few years back that Paul Conroy had been the highest scoring midfielder for a couple of years period and Fenton is certainly now outscoring that rate 2:1 at least

    It's more the way he takes scores for me. He can score off either foot, from distance and in tight spaces he can make room for himself like the very best inside forwards. On top of all the other stuff it's incredible.


Advertisement