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Brian Fenton - Overrated?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,944 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    You're some spoofer. You started this thread over 3.5 years ago and it was waffle at the time, and has been proved since to be even more waffle. I'm not a believer of someone dangling all-ireland medals around, and that being a justification of someone being absolute quality. At the end of the day, it is a team sport, and good players can be carried along by great players to all ireland victories.

    However, Brian Fenton has 6 all-stars in the 10 years or so that he has played at the highest level. And I think he has won player of the year for 2 of those years. He is an amazing player, and should be credited as such. Niall Buckley was a very good player too. But Jack Barry was a very average intercounty player. Actually, I would say below average. He never looked like he fitted into the intercounty scene. He was a makeshift midfielder for Kerry, until someone proper like Diarmuid O'Connor and the likes came along. David Moran carried him along.

    Brian Fenton will always be regarded by those who know anything about GAA to be one of the greatest midfielders ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭Krazy gang


    That poster is obviously very anti dublin. Admittedly I'm no fan of them myself but even I can acknowledge what a footballer Fenton was. Great to watch beautiful kicker left and right, high fielding.

    I do agree that some of the hype can be a bit over the top though. We heard it when mccarthy retired a few weeks ago. In reality mccarthy wouldn't lace the boots of Fenton, Jack ó shea, tohill, Niall Buckley etc. But I could find very few weaknesses or fault in fentons game. Maybe he did fade out of games a bit when dublin were under the cosh at times. Not sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,944 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    He won 7 all-irelands in 10 years. There weren't that many times that Dublin were under the kosh in the past decade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭Krazy gang


    That's fair enough yeah. What will dublins midfield be next year? Tom lahiff and Howard?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,357 ✭✭✭✭billyhead




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    Delighted this thread has got bumped with another late night post. I really needed a laugh today. Anyone saying Fenton is overrated doesn't know football



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,944 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    I don't know. Hopefully, ya. Wouldn't put much fear into any opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    I'm off now to set up a "Roger Federer - overrated?" thread in the tennis forum.

    Or maybe a "Brian O'Driscoll - overrated?" thread in the rugby forum.

    I haven't decided yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,303 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Fenton and Cluxton are the two players from the last decade to be guaranteed a place in any greatest of all time team.

    When the going got tough for Dublin, Fenton got going. Crucial long-distance points, crucial midfield catches, when his team needed him, they got results. Sure there were times against lesser players and lesser teams, that Fenton wasn't as bothered, but the team didn't need him, but over the ten years, when they did need him, he delivered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭spurshero


    watched a interview with current footballer of the year Paul Conroy lately . He was asked best player he’s ever played against or marked . Brian Fenton he said.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭tritium


    Its the classical adage really, those who know, know, those who don't start boards threads calling them overrated

    I'll take the opinion of guys who know the game, over several generations, better than most of us ever will any day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Thats the point, they were a juggernaut steamrolling everyone. So can't really judge a players.

    Can only judge them, in terms of greatness, when they did face tests. And Fenton failed on all counts really, everytime he met Kerry and Barry, against Mayo in a semi or quater final one year, and even the once Meath rallied and put it up to Dublin he disappeared

    He can have all the great attributes he wants, but its about doing it when the crunch comes, and when it did, he often wilted. You can keep repeating his all Ireland medals, but it doesn't disprove this. Ye, Dublin beat Kerry in the finals in the end, but it was in spite of him for example.

    All the eulogising is over the top, he was a decent Dublin midfielder, who would be steady and alright in the poor Dublin teams of the late 90s for example. Would he be better than Whelan even? Sure a better "footballer", but at the same time doesnt command the same presence and aura, needed in big moments.

    So when people ask is he the best ever, its questionable if he's even the best midfielder Dublin ever had, let alone the best Dublin player ever

    Post edited by The Golden Miller on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Maradona, as manager of Argentina, once reckoned it was a better idea to play championship midfielder Gutierrez at right back for the national team, in the 2010 world cup. As opposed to Zanetti, one of the best right backs ever, who had also just won the treble. And Maradona was the best ever. Surely he made the right call there? Who are we to question the best player ever, surely the highest authority on the matter right?

    As for GAA, former Meath county player, Mick O'Dowd, felt it was the right call to draft in 8 Ratoath players when appointed. Ratoath were intermediate at the time, didn't even win the intermediate championship even. Picked them over battle hardened established players. Sent the county back years, but he knew best right? Who are we to criticise a higher authority.

    Paul Conroys opinion means fcuk all. And holds no extra merit than anyone elses. Being able to play, and read the game, are two very different things. Not saying I'm any expert, but this idea, that the opinion of someone on a forum carries less merit than an established player, to belittle the opionion, is actually mute



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ledwithhedwith




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭leath_dub


    You're right. By that logic Jack O'Sheas was sh1te 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭Gael85


    This should be on the fishing thread. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭tritium


    they also once let Bertie commentate on premiership football alongside some actual ex pros


    he looked like a complete dope



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,944 ✭✭✭flasher0030




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭tritium


    Yeah I suppose six years of undefeated all Ireland medals in a row, including a MOTM performance in there were either Dublin not being tested or in spite of Fenton. Hilarious, Barry was so good that Kerry couldn’t win the first match in spite being a man up for half the game, and was yanked off in the replay after Kerry had spent three halves of football sacrificing their attacking threat to try to contain a single player-Fenton



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    I'll let the thread die after this as I made my point. But I do want to pick you up on one thing. People keep saying Fenton is so good, Kerry had to "sacrafice" a player just to contain him. That implys Barry is man marking him, or following him around, in effect, Kerry down a useful man. Or putting two players on him etc.

    That's not what happened. Kerry didn't "sacrafice" anyone to "contain" Fenton or follow him around. Barry and Fenton simply went head to head, infact Barry was often commanding the midfield, turning over ball, and starting the Kerry attacks, with Fenton desperately trying to contain Barry. Barry wasn't hiding away, following a man around to disrupt him.

    Fenton and Barry went head to head several times, and no matter what anyone wants to say or spin it, Barry was the more impressive, imposing player of the two, anytime they met. Read the game better even, fielded far more balls he claimed over Fenton in duals, and turned over more ball in the centre of the field and started Kerry attacks.

    And as you say this is a man who was taken off due to fitness issues in one game, and lacked pace, yet still got around the midfield better than Fenton, and in all honesty, lorded it over him. And as I said, Barry considered an average player, not guaranteed a place on the Kerry team, but could still lord it over Fenton. And some people want us to believe Fenton was the best ever? And I'm being the one accused of fishing ffs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,303 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Barry was a spoiler, nothing more than that. Kerry were so afraid of Fenton that they spent their whole time trying to negate him. It never really worked as Fenton would always get away from his minder on enough occasions to ensure Dublin beat them. It is a sign of a truly great player that a team like Kerry would put so much effort into stopping him, usually that is a tactic reserved for a marquee forward rather than a midfielder.

    I think you also mentioned in a previous post that Meath once put it up to this Dublin team. Not in the last decade or so can I tell you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    But that's not what happened. Barry never man marked Fenton, so this disingenious nonsense your trying to push, doesn't hold. Barry and Fenton went head to head, with Dublin players often trying to bypass the midfield, as Fenton was in Barrys pocket, so the midfield was best avoided for Dublin. I genuienly can't even remember Fenton even fielding one ball against Barry, who himself was pulling them from the sky every game they met. It's some mental gymnastics Dublin fans do, try to argue Fenton was actually that good he had to be man marked, when in reality, was simply outplayed in midfield, everytime by Barry, an unfit middling Kerry midfielder. But the best ever ye?

    Meath ran Dublin close in 2021. Dublin had built up a 12 point lead or so by half time, Meath got an early goal in the second half, and for the first time in a decade sparked into life, and lost the shackles of fear they normally play with these days. They tore into Dublin from that point, but the deficit was too much to overhaul. Think they got it down to 2 points at one stage, before Dublin picked off a score or two at the death to put it out of their reach. But Fenton disappered, as Meath over ran Dublin all over the field in that second half, and had them completely rattled. I actually thought he was taken off.

    Was helpless to stem the tide against Meath, like against Mayo, when things weren't going their way. Like against Barry. He's good when his team are cruising, but once the chips are down, wilts a bit imo. Not the mark of the greatest player ever, for sure!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,303 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Is that the Meath game that Fenton kicked a point to end the feeble challenge of Meath?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Don't think so. Think he was at home by that point



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,303 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0718/1235815-dublin-see-off-meath-after-close-contest-at-croke-park/

    "Dublin used all their wealth of experience to retain possession and as Meath chased the game Brian Fenton, Cormac Costello and Ciarán Kilkenny picked off the insurance scores to secure their place in the final for the 11th successive year."

    Also won a penalty and created a goal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    ye won and created a goal when cruising in the first half. OK, tapped over a 10 yard point with the ball put in his hands straight in front of the posts. The big game player!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,303 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, apart from being involved in the key moments, he did nothing, you are so correct!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    Listened to the Football Pod interview with Beggan and McManus earlier. They were talking about the semi final last year and how Dublin pushed on last ten. One of the lads actually named checked Fenton for kicking into gear and pushing Dublin on, they won the last 10 minutes by something like 1-4 to a point. I'd say the two lads know what they are talking about now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Ye he was involved when Dublin were cruising. When the crunch came disappeared. Was helpless to stem the tide in the second half when Meath over ran them from all angles.

    If you think tapping over a ten yard point put in his hands disproves this then fair play. He was no where to be seen for that second half, couldn't take control in the center or stem the tide, just like he couldn't against Mayo or anytime he met Barry.

    That's the reality. If he's supposed to be the best ever, surely it's fair game to judge him in moments his team was under the cosh. Surely excelling in those moments is the mark of greatness? He failed on every count when tested imo, we all seen it tbh!



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