Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

freshpopcorn

Harry Palmr wrote: »

My sister only wants Mr Pfizer!

That's fairly common in my experience. My mother is 59 and she'd know lots of people in their 60's and there all dreading getting the Astra Vaccine.
One lady is even trying to fake an illness to get out of being pushed into getting it by people.

KrustyUCC

it prob will alright

If NIAC recommend J&J for only 60-69 as well that's 2 out of 4 vaccines that are useless for the general population outside that very limited group

Goldengirl

hmmm wrote: »

J&J vaccine given to 7 million people in the US, and 1 death from rare blood clots. Even rarer than AZ.

Let's hope sense prevails.

8 cases , waiting for 2 more weeks for any cases to present before they know full extent .
But yes , so far , over 6 times rarer than AZ .

Miike

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The HSE referenced earlier that AZ had changed their delviery for this week in the last 48hrs.

They've gone from 45k to 9k.

A further scheduled delivery of 165,000 Astra Zeneca doses on April 30th has been delayed until May 3rd.

To be honest we're lucky in the sense that we've a decent enough stockpile of it given the stopages and now it's limited use so shouldn't have too much of an impact.

Goes to show you can't rely on them. Will also probably feed into the NIAC decision on J&J

Was there a reason provided or the general something something supply shortages, eu factories, something something?

Goldengirl

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Most relevant would be to try establish, if possible, what the likelihood is of transmission in this event.

You can test positive but the viral load might be too small to spread. It must be possible to validate this in a similar method to capturing alcohol breath specimens.

I suppose the most important consideration would be whether every patient they have had contact with is vaccinated and still well.

Important to consider as older people's immunity may not be as strong that this us why everybody needs to be vaccinated as well as taking precautions in care of the elderly .

Gael23

Is there any reason to believe they will be rational and not issue the same advice as AZ?

Goldengirl

Turtwig wrote: »

You're assuming the risk is dose dependent. We don't know that yet. Could just be an immune reaction that is inevitable for some recipients after the first dose. Risk could be equal among the vaccines. Or it might not be. If it was different that might actually help in identifying the cause of the event.

Good point .
EMA have stated small numbers related to Pfizer and Moderna vaccines also with Thrombosis and thrombocytopenia.
The numbers are tiny in comparison to the vast numbers vaccinated and are below what would be possible considered ' normal' in the population, but still noteworthy.

Miike

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0420/1211059-niac-dose-intervals/

Given what we already know that Pfizer have said they're in a position to deliver over expectations, I would be inclined to hope then that they won't space out the doses. This is the first time I've seen "main stream media" report on the fact that this spacing out of doses can have detrimental effects on variant emergence, a conversation that's been had in academia since the inception of the idea.

Deeper Blue

Miike wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0420/1211059-niac-dose-intervals/

This is the first time I've seen "main stream media" report on the fact that this spacing out of doses can have detrimental effects on variant emergence

No surprise which media outlet was the first to report on it anyway :rolleyes:

JPup

astrofool wrote: »

The second jab is for increased efficacy and longevity. The dosage of J&J is such that a second jab isn't needed, but the same can't be done for the existing vaccine without new trials and changing of the dosages.

Is that actually true? I didn't think one dose of J&J provides any longer cover than one dose of the other 3 that have been approved. Just that J&J ran a trial based on a single dose that got approval. Pfizer could have done the same say.

The likelihood is that anyone getting the J&J vaccine will need a booster shot later on.

That's my reading of it anyway. Open to correction.

Miike

Deeper Blue wrote: »

No surprise which media outlet was the first to report on it anyway :rolleyes:

It's a wider conversation that needs to be had. Whether you like RTE or think RTE is the virus is beside the point to me. From medium-long term public health standpoint it's a conversation that holds significant importance.

Goldengirl

Gael23 wrote: »

Is there any reason to believe they will be rational and not issue the same advice as AZ?

Yes.

Rebelbrowser

The Netherlands are injecting J&J from tomorrow according to rte.ie - and no reference to any age limitations

Charles Babbage

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The HSE referenced earlier that AZ had changed their delviery for this week in the last 48hrs.

They've gone from 45k to 9k.

A further scheduled delivery of 165,000 Astra Zeneca doses on April 30th has been delayed until May 3rd.

To be honest we're lucky in the sense that we've a decent enough stockpile of it given the stopages and now it's limited use so shouldn't have too much of an impact.

Goes to show you can't rely on them. Will also probably feed into the NIAC decision on J&J

All the same AZ are still acting the maggot and this will likely stretch out the date for the 60-65 year cohort. Perhaps they will also use J&J for this lot, but there is not a huge amount of that around either.

TomOnBoard

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That's fairly common in my experience. My mother is 59 and she'd know lots of people in their 60's and there all dreading getting the Astra Vaccine.
One lady is even trying to fake an illness to get out of being pushed into getting it by people.

I've two sisters. Neither want AZ due to history. There's a lot of AZ fear about. And it's feeding into an overall vaccine hysteria as far as I can see. We need better, simpler communications on the risk vs benefit, and not just a "Take AZ as soon as its offered, or you'll get nothing until everyone else is done" strategy for 60-69 y.o.s

A seriously thought-out communications strategy to re-vitalise AZ's image among this group is needed. It doesn't matter that they may be completely wrong; they're often operating off incomplete or mis- information.

odyssey06

Miike wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0420/1211059-niac-dose-intervals/

Given what we already know that Pfizer have said they're in a position to deliver over expectations, I would be inclined to hope then that they won't space out the doses. This is the first time I've seen "main stream media" report on the fact that this spacing out of doses can have detrimental effects on variant emergence, a conversation that's been had in academia since the inception of the idea.

'Could have' is not the same as 'can have' though?
At the moment it is a theoretical concern. Not saying it is an invalid concern but there is a difference.

Goldengirl

Miike wrote: »

It's a wider conversation that needs to be had. Whether you like RTE or think RTE is the virus is beside the point to me. From medium-long term public health standpoint it's a conversation that holds significant importance.

This has been the main worry as regards giving everybody some immunity with one jab , but not the best immunity as per clinical trials .
It's not just a question of " getting it done " , but doing it properly .
We are not in a panic mode....yet ..... as the UK were when they authorised extending the mRNA intervals between doses.
Who knows what impact that will have on their ability to stop the more serious variants from causing serious disease inthe next while ?
And as we are so close it makes sense to get it right so our little population doesn't have continuing issues.

Miike

odyssey06 wrote: »

'Could have' is not the same as 'can have' though?
At the moment it is a theoretical concern. Not saying it is an invalid concern but there is a difference.

It's a very valid theoretical concern though is my point. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my post, sorry about that. I'm not trying to put fear or concern into any person. I'm interested in opening the discussion about the implications these theoretical concerns coming to the fore. You don't need a PhD in Molecular Biology to understand the implications of selective pressure. This is something that holds weight in the balance of getting things right.

JTMan

J&J are resuming deliveries to EU countries. Hopefully NIAC act quickly.

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1384558793606971397

stephenjmcd

JTMan wrote: »

J&J are resuming deliveries to EU countries. Hopefully NIAC act quickly.

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1384558793606971397

Won't make much difference for the next month or so anyway. The J&J deliveries are small until into May

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Won't make much difference for the next month or so anyway. The J&J deliveries are small until into May

I would have thought we will still be getting and using them anyway , but maybe within certain age bands .

PTH2009

Could the J&J end up going to the low risk groups ?

Thankfully im in the 34-25 year old gap which no underlying health condition and in no real rush getting jabbed

Strazdas

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could the J&J end up going to the low risk groups ?

Thankfully im in the 34-25 year old gap which no underlying health condition and in no real rush getting jabbed

That's what I was thinking myself : it would be ideal for the under 35s, who already have a low risk of getting serious symptoms and who would be done and dusted after a single jab.

odyssey06

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could the J&J end up going to the low risk groups ? Thankfully im in the 34-25 year old gap which no underlying health condition and in no real rush getting jabbed

I'm a little older than that but it's the one that I want.
One jab, good protection, done and dusted for this phase.

JPup

It's more like they will be used for age 50+ if there is an age restriction. It was women under 50 that had the issue with blood clots as far as I know. Certainly the first six cases were in that category.

majo

Miike wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0420/1211059-niac-dose-intervals/

Given what we already know that Pfizer have said they're in a position to deliver over expectations, I would be inclined to hope then that they won't space out the doses. This is the first time I've seen "main stream media" report on the fact that this spacing out of doses can have detrimental effects on variant emergence, a conversation that's been had in academia since the inception of the idea.

Cillian de Gascun said the same in an excellent interview with Claire Byrne this morning.

Strazdas

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm a little older than that but it's the one that I want.
One jab, good protection, done and dusted for this phase.

Especially for those who are thinking of vaccine certs or 'passports' etc....no having to wait around for three months to be declared fully vaccinated.

Goldengirl

JPup wrote: »

It's more like they will be used for age 50+ if there is an age restriction. It was women under 50 that had the issue with blood clots as far as I know. Certainly the first six cases were in that category.

I think you are right .
Hiwever I think the "women" but has been discounted already has it not ?
The vaccinated were mainly female so they cannot as yet say that gender played part .

odyssey06

Miike wrote: »

It's a very valid theoretical concern though is my point. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my post, sorry about that. I'm not trying to put fear or concern into any person. I'm interested in opening the discussion about the implications these theoretical concerns coming to the fore. You don't need a PhD in Molecular Biology to understand the implications of selective pressure. This is something that holds weight in the balance of getting things right.

The thing is if other countries, larger than us, start spacing out the doses... is there any point in us trying to toe the line due to this theoretical concern? Seems like worst of both worlds then.

stephenjmcd

Goldengirl wrote: »

I would have thought we will still be getting and using them anyway , but maybe within certain age bands .

Yeah but I mean when people say hope NIAC act quickly etc, there isn't that much pressure on them to act quick given the low volumes.

I hope they move quickly enough more I could see why there wouldn't be the pressure to make a quick decision