Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

robbiezero

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes especially where fear/worry mixed with experts are involved.

Imagine hypothetically your business was data/internet security. Would it not be in your interest to convey to your clients a severe, worst case scenario re data leakage and hacker threat - and thereby ensure the success of your business?

NPHET, prominent ultra-cautious experts sniffing research grants and a raised media profile, and any business that has profited from restrictions have much to gain from an unnecessarily drawn out easing of restrictions.

Likely those wanting this fiasco to be prolonged are in the minority, but they’re a minority with a lot of power and vested interests at play.

To be honest I don't buy that there is anything more to NPHET than just arse-covering, ultra-conservatism in the face of not really having a clue how to deal with this virus or a willingness to even take the most minor of risk.

When or if a review is done in to the handling of this virus, you would hope that some mechanisms will be put in place, that we never again have the likes of NPHET effectively running the country and locking down the population, because we will always have politicians looking for scapegoats to cover their own useless arses.

Graham

Stormyteacup wrote: »

You may want to expand on the nitpicking. Perhaps you can identify the conspiracy theory in my post for starters?

I did but I genuinely have zero interest in debating your conspiracy theories about secret NEPHET research grants that are somehow based on prolong restrictions unnecessarily.

Have you considered a follow-up post in the CT forum? I'm sure you'll find a few takers.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

Sums up the madness
https://twitter.com/TheFreds/status/1382359144456421382?s=19

Yep.

This too: https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1382071376060764160

robbiezero

bear1 wrote: »

How much more can the economy take before it tanks?
How much more are people willing to accept before enough becomes enough?
I just can't fathom what is being done to the place.

I think a lot of people do the very Irish thing and just ignore and flout the restrictions they don't like, but won't be bothered opposing them in any meaningful fashion.
All my friends and family now are all meeting up, travelling as they like etc, a good cohort of my friends and colleagues are having drinks together indoors and outdoors etc.

drkpower

gozunda wrote: »

I see no one claiming the health service pre covid was a paradigm of anything or anything it does is a "justification for fundamental restrictions on personal liberty"

Restrictions are there to help manage the rate of infection. The health service is there to mop up the damage caused by that infection on real people. But that's not to deny the massive work and resources that have been put in the health service over the last year to cope with the pressures causdd by the current pandemic. I have a number of family members working on the front line. I wouldn't swap with them for a lotto win

The ‘rate of infection’ doesn’t justify suspension of civil liberties either. The ‘deal’ was that we suspend our liberties to protect the vulnerable and avoid the actual collapse of the health service. Both have been achieved.

We actually haven’t put much of any new resources into the health service itself; ie. we have very few additional staff or capacity (other than temporary capacity via the private hospital deal). That tells its own sad story.

Stormyteacup

Graham wrote: »

I did but I genuinely have zero interest in debating your conspiracy theories about secret NEPHET research grants that are somehow based on prolong restrictions unnecessarily.

Have you considered a follow-up post in the CT forum? I'm sure you'll find a few takers.

You didn’t. You just dropped the ‘conspiracy theory’ bomb and ran. Not sure where you got ‘secret NPHET research grants’ from but it’s imaginative, I’ll give you that.

drkpower

Graham wrote: »

I did but I genuinely have zero interest in debating your conspiracy theories about secret NEPHET research grants that are somehow based on prolong restrictions unnecessarily.

Have you considered a follow-up post in the CT forum? I'm sure you'll find a few takers.

That’s quite a cynical response.

Considering the motivations of various players is not conspiracy theorising. We routinely, and fairly, consider the motivations of , for instance, industry lobby groups. It is not unreasonable to do the same for others - like nphet - whose views are far more influential in shaping policy.

That is not to say that nphet have hidden or ulterior motives but labelling the question as a CT is just lazy.

Stormyteacup

robbiezero wrote: »

To be honest I don't buy that there is anything more to NPHET than just arse-covering, ultra-conservatism in the face of not really having a clue how to deal with this virus or a willingness to even take the most minor of risk.

When or if a review is done in to the handling of this virus, you would hope that some mechanisms will be put in place, that we never again have the likes of NPHET effectively running the country and locking down the population, because we will always have politicians looking for scapegoats to cover their own useless arses.

This is a lot of it, but when your interests coincide with taking the most conservative approach, despite the wider harm it’s doing, then it’s a thin line to absent yourself entirely from your own agenda.

Lumen

drkpower wrote: »

We actually haven’t put much of any new resources into the health service itself; ie. we have very few additional staff or capacity (other than temporary capacity via the private hospital deal). That tells its own sad story.

Public critical care beds have gone up from 225 to around 290, with surge capacity up to around 350.

What permanent capacity would you like? Given that these beds cost a million a year each to run.

bear1

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/lots-to-be-positive-about-says-tanaisteas-country-on-track-to-ease-restrictions-further-on-may-4-40314459.html

So may 4th?

FintanMcluskey

Lumen wrote: »

Public critical care beds have gone up from 225 to around 290, with surge capacity up to around 350.

What permanent capacity would you like? Given that these beds cost a million a year each to run.

Restrictions cost about a billion a week, we’ve had them for over a year

I’ll take 50,000 beds please

Stormyteacup

Lumen wrote: »

Public critical care beds have gone up from 225 to around 290, with surge capacity up to around 350.

What permanent capacity would you like? Given that these beds cost a million a year each to run.

We have more than enough funding to cover the costs of an ICU capacity in line with similarly well funded health systems.

arccosh

what are these ulterior motives by NPHET?

mightyreds

bear1 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/lots-to-be-positive-about-says-tanaisteas-country-on-track-to-ease-restrictions-further-on-may-4-40314459.html

So may 4th?

Has there been leaks around what's then, just construction?

drkpower

Lumen wrote: »

Public critical care beds have gone up from 225 to around 290, with surge capacity up to around 350.

What permanent capacity would you like? Given that these beds cost a million a year each to run.

Most/all of those are simply repurposed operative rooms and other existing infrastructure. A million a year in the context of what all of this is costing is peanuts and is long overdue anyway.

Precious little has been done on increased staffing at consultant level (including public health). All of the above - and more - will be needed to emerge from this and to begin effectively treating the next ‘pandemic’ of imminent adverse health outcomes that will arise from the many late diagnoses of multiple conditions as a consequence of lockdown. There is a genuine opportunity and perhaps appetite to invest now to at least get something tangible from this mess.

arccosh

Stormyteacup wrote: »

We have more than enough funding to cover the costs of an ICU capacity in line with similarly well funded health systems.

Then you're in Nightingale territory, all the equipment without the staff to run it....

The HSE isn't going to be fixed overnight by throwing money at it... you're looking at 4 to 5 years of investment starting now to even get new doctors and nurses on the lower rungs of the ladder

drkpower

arccosh wrote: »

what are these ulterior motives by NPHET?

I’m not saying there are any. But shutting down questioning by passing the possibility off as a CT is just cynical and lazy.

Stormyteacup

arccosh wrote: »

what are these ulterior motives by NPHET?

Look I don’t believe they are particularly sinister ulterior motives. It’s the plain old self-interest we have observed for decades here, and have become inured to.

arccosh

bear1 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/lots-to-be-positive-about-says-tanaisteas-country-on-track-to-ease-restrictions-further-on-may-4-40314459.html

So may 4th?

Funny, that supposedly not temporary SI 168, which has temporary slapped on each page expires on that date

drkpower

arccosh wrote: »

Then you're in Nightingale territory, all the equipment without the staff to run it....

The HSE isn't going to be fixed overnight by throwing money at it... you're looking at 4 to 5 years of investment starting now to even get new doctors and nurses on the lower rungs of the ladder

Why wait for 4 or 5 years? There are hundreds of excellent Irish doctors and nurses practising in a gazillions other jurisdictions who would be more than happy to come home if the deal is right.

Graham

drkpower wrote: »

I’m not saying there are any. But shutting down questioning by passing the possibility off as a CT is just cynical and lazy.

Where's the question?

Stormyteacup wrote: »

NPHET, prominent ultra-cautious experts sniffing research grants and a raised media profile, and any business that has profited from restrictions have much to gain from an unnecessarily drawn out easing of restrictions.

Likely those wanting this fiasco to be prolonged are in the minority, but they’re a minority with a lot of power and vested interests at play.

Stormyteacup

Graham wrote: »

Where's the question?

Just to clarify - maybe should have been an ‘and’ after the first comma, but NPHET are on their own in that sentence.

drkpower

Graham wrote: »

Where's the question?

Change ‘discussion’ for ‘question’ if you prefer.

bear1

Just had a read of this

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40266371.html

I think the author is spot on, pity there's no one in power that has the same opinion.

arccosh

drkpower wrote: »

I’m not saying there are any. But shutting down questioning by passing the possibility off as a CT is just cynical and lazy.

assuming ulterior motives without evidence it quite lazy too

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Look I don’t believe they are particularly sinister ulterior motives. It’s the plain old self-interest we have observed for decades here, and have become inured to.

such as?

I'm genuinely curious, because I cannot come up with any logic reason why a service that relies on people paying taxes to run it, would want to continue a situation which will directly lead to their funding being cut going forward ....

The only self interest I see happening is when the fingers start point as to who to blame.

bear1

mightyreds wrote: »

Has there been leaks around what's then, just construction?

Not that I've seen, I'm guessing non essential? Funny how it's just after the bank holiday.

dalyboy

bear1 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/lots-to-be-positive-about-says-tanaisteas-country-on-track-to-ease-restrictions-further-on-may-4-40314459.html

So may 4th?

Jeez. What an article .Loads of words but really saying nothing at the same time.

What restrictions are they loosening on May 4th ?

Stormyteacup

drkpower wrote: »

Why wait for 4 or 5 years? There are hundreds of excellent Irish doctors and nurses practising in a gazillions other jurisdictions who would be more than happy to come home if the deal is right.

Yes exactly. And the funding has been enough over the past decade to have provided for future recruitment of staff in hospitals. But it went down the HSE black hole. Unfortunately little has changed to rectify the situation.

Enough funding has been provided to train, attract, and retain staff with expertise to operate our hospitals.

drkpower

arccosh wrote: »

assuming ulterior motives without evidence it quite lazy too
.

Agreed.
Calling in the person to prove evidence would be better way to address such claims rather than tagging it with the CT label. Anyway, it’s very much an aside.

bb1234567

Like how much longer can this go on? What type of long term damage is being done to the economy? I know absolutely **** all about that end of things, but have there been any reports written about it or sites/blogs that disucss that and lay out the facts and illustrate what might be coming down the road for us less in the know about it? Maybe I'm naive..but I hope given the relatively small amount of attention, the public government or media give to that discussion means it might somehow not turn out as bad as you'd think, or are we seriously just completely ignoring the reality of what's coming, and pretending it won't happen?