Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186646#Comment_122186646

Great shout Clegg. The team really needs to have a squad where it can interchange players and not have a first XV and a second XV. I'd love to see Sam get time next to JGP.

ironingbored

Given the chatter in France over Stuart Lancaster (Racing currently in 6th with Pau (H) and ROG's La Rochelle (A) to go to make the playoffs), what about a Lancaster/Nienaber ticket with Leo going upstairs in some capacity?

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186717#Comment_122186717

For me if Leo is to leave , I would love ROG to take over

Clegg

Lancaster left at the right time really. I think he had brought the squad as far as he could. We wouldn't have beaten La Rochelle twice this season under his coaching methods. They had our attacking patterns figured out.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186643#Comment_122186643

Can you give over with the posts going on about shite/crap etc and actually go into some detail about what you don't like. Many others who aren't happy at least go into some detail about what they don't like.

I wouldn't say leinster haven't improved more they haven't improved at near the same rate some of the opposition has and to be fair as they've been top or very near the top for majority of years that isn't unexpected.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184501#Comment_122184501

The problem with taking 3 isn't the fact you're racking points, the problem is you have to then exit your own half and get back territory when that's the most difficult part of the game

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186646#Comment_122186646

I don't know if Harry Byrne or Prendergast have ever played with JGP without injury to Ross

McFly85

On the way home now, trying to collect my thoughts after a wonderful weekend of rugby.

First things first - Spurs stadium is phenomenal. From ease of access to facilities to the atmosphere it generates - even on Friday evening half full the noise was unbelievable, and during the game yesterday was unreal!

Was in the Antwerp Arms before both games, really great pre match vibes. Met a fair few Toulouse fans, and they were top class all day. It was hilarious to see just how many anti-Leinster people were there too. Groups of lads supporting everything that goes against them like their life depended on it!

Regarding the game itself…that was tough to take. The big worry was that Toulouse would run away with it but we kept them tryless for 80 mins, and I really felt we had the beating of them. We had enough chances but couldn’t convert when it mattered. Toulouse’ counter rucking was brilliant, they knew exactly how to kill Leinsters attack, with Leinster not learning or just not being able to change it up.

Byrne needs to be moved on I think. He’s a perfectly functional 10 and kicks well, but is severely lacking in leadership and game management. If Leinster want to win the big prizes, we need a big 10. While I don’t think Frawley is the answer I do think we looked better when he was on.

And while I wouldn’t dwell on it, I think the ref was very weak. Couple of big, big calls went Toulouse’s way, and I really think that if you give Lowe a yellow, Toulouse should have gotten one in the first half. Lowes disallowed try was immensely frustrating, and after finally seeing what that was about still feels harsh.

All in all though, cracking weekend again. As painful as it is, I’ve booked a hotel in Cardiff for next year just in case!

Clegg

I've bitten the bullet and rewatched the game. For me, this might be the best Caelan Doris has ever played. When Leinster were struggling for momentum, he made a big carry to get them on the front foot. When Toulouse were on top, he acted the complete bollix at a ruck and killed the ball illegally without being spotted by the referee. It's a shame he had that brain fade late in extra time. It detracts from an excellent performance.

Henshaw was outstanding as well. Took on the defensive mantle in midfield in Ringrose's absence and also looked sharp in attack.

I don't think I've ever seen a front row forward quite like Dan Sheehan. His footwork to evade contact and speed off the mark is outstanding. His darts at the lineout were mostly very good as well.

Yesterday, I thought Leinster had missed their 'window' to win a Champions Cup. But we had so many great performances, especially up front, that I think this run to a final can be replicated one more time. We have a decent age profile in the pack, albeit I'm a bit worried about Furlongs replacement now Ala'alatoa is leaving. But that can be ameliorated elsewhere with the arrival of Snyman.

AdamD

I'm absolutely amazed that the IRFU have deemed Goodman worthy of a promotion

Clegg

Another positive is how our scrum has improved recently. Against La Rochelle and now Toulouse, we had the better of them. Our lineout was solid in both games as well. It's something we can build upon next season, I hope.

More of a concern was the maul. We could never get going offensively and Toulouse plowed through our defensive set ups.

AbusesToilets

Frawley's missed DG has surpassed Humphrie's vs Australia and Gopperth vs Toulon in the all time hurt locker. Why couldn't they have taken another couple of phases to set themselves better?

Knowall1

In a truly professional outfit Ross would have been let go long ago. Take Pep as an example. If he had a player that couldn't do one of the basic functions of the job ( I.e. run ) he would be out. In some ways you can admire a family type group holding on and encouraging a player to get better. But Leinster have to be better than that . Ross an Luke are not good enough and should be let go.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187011#Comment_122187011

it was great he had the balls to go for it, smells of positivity for the future as it was lacking in previous iterations post Sexton era

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186777#Comment_122186777

Did you watch the match v Ulster? Open thou eyes and gaze at a brutal performance. Was it not brutal?

Leinster have lost 4 of the last 5. 3 of those losses, Leinster were brutal. When was the last time this happened? Even if they were to win the URC, they have been substandard. I've not seen as many poor performances from them in years. They've gone backwards, in my mind.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186717#Comment_122186717

IIsn't Leo already upstairs? Is he on the field coaching or is he more of a director of Rugby? I thought he was the latter. If he isn't, then he probably could become full DOR and leave the coaching to a coach with attach, defence, set piece etc coaches under them.

Clegg

Cullen is in the position where he gets none of the praise when Leinster win, but all of the criticism when they lose.

Bernard Jackman talked about Leo's role on the latest Rugby Weekly podcast. He's responsible for a lot of the mundane tasks that take time away from the on pitch coaches. He handles the media and admin tasks. But also liaising with the academy coaches and schools, monitoring the development and player pathways. He's a Director of Rugby in all but name.

The way I see it, Cullen took over when Leinster were in a far worse position than they are now. We'd grown stagnant under MOC and there was a danger that the player pipeline from academy to senior side had been broken. He came in, cleared the deck and integrated younger players into the side. When he knew his coaching wasn't good enough he brought on Lancaster. This has led to Leinster winning 4 league titles and a Champions Cup. It has also led to the province being the backbone of Ireland sides that have won back to back Six Nations titles and a series victory in New Zealand. That's a wildly successful tenure.

There might come a time where a lack of trophies at provincial level might cost him. But for now I think he has done a good job.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187066#Comment_122187066

AnAnd was a complete 2nd string side out as leinster were qualifi4d and had final to prep for. It was a non event for leinster

You just keep repeating sub standard. Brutal. Are you capable of going into any detail at all saying why you think that. At least others criticising things can do that.

Clegg

For next weekend against Connacht we need a big performance. Not only to get some momentum back after the final, but also because we've lost the last few matches. Need to restore some sort of winning feeling again.

We need a strong enough side to get the win, but not so strong that the players who played yesterday don't get the requisite rest for the Quarter Final in a fortnight.

I just don't want a repeat of a few seasons ago where we peaked for the Champions Cup Final but lost, pummeled Glasgow a week later, then looked out of gas against the Bulls.

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187273#Comment_122187273

For morale this Friday is huge, loosing is becoming a bit of a habit, would like to see the following.

JOB, Russell,Ringrose,Ngati,Lowe,Frawley ( will probably be Harry but hope not) Foley, Healy, Keheller , Mike, Moloney, Ryan/ Deeny,Deegan,Penny ,Conan

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187160#Comment_122187160

It's really a step down from previous 2nds? You would not agree?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187337#Comment_122187337

Christ alive, that's media talk.

The there's the way media tell the story and there's reality. Media needs a cohesive narrative with a story arc, reality isnt that neat. This craic of winning being a habit is purely a retrospective way of telling the story.

Fact is leinster will prepare and sent out the most sensible squad to play next weekend. The squad from this week played a very tough, 100 minute game so I doubt we'll see many of them next week.

There will be 4 rounds in a row and next week is the only one that isn't knock out and is least consequential. They'll want to win but let's not stick so closely to the scripted talking points.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187337#Comment_122187337

…so you would leave out JGB our top performer at the moment interesting given the dialogue, I think that’s crazy we need best side out each game at this juncture to get their heads together and get over yesterday

Leo has done so much and as was said if it’s a win it was the players that pulled it off and if it was a loss it’s the coaching failures . Non sensical . Looking at Toulouse the magic was on the pitch in the form of a 9

Players got to stand up and be counted. Sexton in 2011 grabbed the game at half time when many wrote us off . Leo played his part in that win alongside everyone else . So he knows how to win and knows what it takes . Reality is they had DuPont to raise their game and we didn’t . Leo / Leo the Lion did their best prior to the whistle

Dubinusa

Well how about Russell's brainfart. Or the general sloppiness in the 1st half? Better still, the Lions match. Once again decent territory! Lots of possession and yet nothing to show from it. Mistake after mistake. Going back to the Ulsterr game, how about the pass into touch? The overall squad is the same. But there's a significant drop in standards. Disagree if you will.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187160#Comment_122187160

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187037#Comment_122187037

Pep has the ability to drop a player and buy another, leinster primary role is to provide players to Ireland

You are trying to compare chalk and cheese

Clo-Clo

The reaction after this loss is predictable and IMO over the top. Some calling for Leinster to take their kicks(they did before and lost the final)

All sorts of other comments whch are usual

THis was always going to be a tough season for Leinster, huge number of players and coachs in WC. A brand new head coach taking over but not available for preseason or the early part of season.

Working with a squad he had no input on and was drilled for 7 years on a game plan from a previous head coach

I said at the start of the season this might be a write off because of the above, in the end Leinster got to one final and lost in extra time.

They are still in the URC.

I will wait for end of next seaon to see if the Nienaber project is a success or not

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187424#Comment_122187424

I left JGP out as I don't think Cullen will pick him

BoardsMember

Big ask mentally for McGrath to start next week if so, strong statement of zero confidence in him when he didn't see game time. And he can't be unaware how poor his general form has looked for a while now.

Clegg

McGrath didn't play a single minute of the Semi Final against Northampton either. I don't think there's any doubt that he knows he's out of favour at Leinster.

The province is in a bad position for 9's once you go past JGP. We've the potential of Gunne, but he's only 21. Cormac Foley is another option, but he's 24 and a converted 9 having originally played in the outside backs iirc. Neither player are ready to deputise for JGP so we're left with McGrath. He is experienced and still does some good things on the pitch. But the speed and quality of his pass has deteriorated massively. I think his contract was renewed recently, but without a huge improvement he won't be getting another.

Clegg

Leinster and Irish rugby has a problem once you go past Porter in the loosehead depth chart too. He's a freak, but he plays almost 70 minutes every game he's a part of. He played 90 yesterday. That's just not sustainable for a prop that you want to have a long career. We need someone to bring on after 50/60 minutes that can have a positive impact. It saves wear and tear on Porter and also means he can go all out for the time he's on the pitch rather than worrying about measuring the momenta he can make an impact.

The problem is I've no doubt that Cian Healy is still the next best loosehead after him. Healy is one of Irelands greatest ever players and is still a decent player, but at 36 there probably should have been a replacement to come through by now, whether at Leinster or at another province.

It's up to the coaches to develop greater depth there. I do think that with a bit of time Jack Boyle might be that player. He's young and his work in contact reminds me a lot of Healy at 21 actually. Not seem enough of his work at scrum time, but he's worth investing game time in.