Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128170#Comment_122128170

I think it was a mistake dropping Harry for him. Leo should've backed Harry outright for the rest of the season.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128170#Comment_122128170

Exactly. Ridiculous that only 6 of the 9 tries were scored by the unfortunate backline that RB shovelled the ball onto.

Pretty sure he put McGrath off his passing too and I'm not entirely certain he didn't push Frawley into that YC card challenge.

Whatever about Harry's quality, Byrne the Elder was pretty sound.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130022#Comment_122130022

Disagree. He's just so readable.

Clegg

When he took that outside line, for the briefest moment, I thought we were going to witness the greatest try ever scored.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1789648008184791378?t=5QZniQVD2EpK-YKHb_zymw&s=09

Ben Bailey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCIRMj3CFSc

Go on Tadgh !

Rugbyf565

Jenkins has to start against Toulouse, there is no way around this.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129878#Comment_122129878

I said the same before LaR & in fairness Ross played well. When the pack get rolling he has the time and space to operate.

If I'm to to be brutally honest about my thoughts on the Byrne's - 'The Byrne Legacy' will be:

Ross's physical shortcomings were a hindrance/exposed at the highest level.

Harry had what Ross lacked but just wasn't robust enough.

Has time but it's starting to look like a Carbery profile.

Was he injured for Ospreys or just dropped?

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132100#Comment_122132100

dropped.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132100#Comment_122132100

Don't think he was injured, and don't think it's his injuries necessarily that have held him back this season.

While he's turned in some very good performances, he's still a guy who is fundamentally unreliable. We named weak selections in SA, but his performance in the Lions game was still unacceptably poor. He should be assuming a leadership mantle in that sort of group, but he looked mentally checked out before kick off.

Even on the days where he plays well, he still has sloppy errors in him.

He might very well get a chance in Ravenhill this week and he damn sure needs to turn in a big performance.

Former Former Former

"Dropping" Harry implies he was the man in possession of the jersey - that has never really been the case, Ross has been way out in front all along and there's very little chance of anyone other than Ross playing against Toulouse.

Harry has just never been able to back up his early promise. The return of JOB probably means he won't even be in the 23 for the final.

arsebiscuits1

Watching the game back was just so disheartening to watch how much Luke is struggling with his passing.

I started analysing his passing from a Good, Average or Bad grading which is/ was used by analysts but the URC player doesn't allow 10s scrubbing on desktop. Can only skip a minute at a time so I stopped after 20 minutes or so.

Suffice to say it wasn't good viewing. I counted maybe 20 passes and it was about 8 good, 8 average and 2 bad.

His average passes are maddening viewing because he will rarely have one in a play. They tend to compound and the move just breaks down.

I'd even be looking at the passes that Ross received before making a judgement on his game. Ospreys pressed hard and Ross was frequently having to check his run due to the quality of pass he received.

Simply put - you cannot play a successful ball in hand game against a rush D with a poor ball out of the ruck. When roughly half the balls you are getting from your 9 are sub par - it's not going to go well.

I feel for Ross here because you can see him trying to move it and make things happen. He was standing wider at times to entice the defenders on to him but the passes from Luke die on their arse at about 10m so he got caught.

Yes it was probably overplaying in this instance but when Leinster knocked on after the restart and Ospreys scored off the try. McGrath gave a terrible pass to Ross. It was a basic right to left pass with Ross standing deep wanting to ship the ball to a forward pod for some yards and a good position to exit. However, Luke takes a step, inviting the press D up outside Ross and still hits his inside shoulder so Ross has to check for the tip on to Kelleher who overplays here and probably should have taken the messy ball to deck. But it looks like Leinster had ID'd this as a tactic as Tipuric shoots up extremely quickly and leaves the hole. In this case he is successful but if Kellehers pass goes to hand Baird is through the half gap and we know he can take those. Maddening lack of basics from Luke here.

I appreciate I don't know as much as a professional coach. And there have been numerous revered coaches who back Luke due to metrics that we as fans just don't see.

But at this point I cannot see why we don't back a player with a consistently quick and accurate pass

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132206#Comment_122132206

Leo prefers experience over a good pass at 9.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132206#Comment_122132206

But at this point I cannot see why we don't back a player with a consistently quick and accurate pass

Who?

Like, I don't know how many schoolboy/academy SHs have been talked about in the 12 or so years that McGrath has been a senior player, but it's a big number and not one of them has gone on to become a better player than him.

Clegg

Top tier shithousery from Doris. Having a brilliant season on both sides of the ball.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1789948449367917046?t=kPMcBqjcBCqHkwSHc_xR-w&s=09

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132249#Comment_122132249

At this point in time McGrath has the slowest and least accurate pass of any squad member of Leinster.

Gunne and Foley both have flaws in their game (that this posters opinion is largely down to lack of game time) but both have noticeably zippier and more accurate passes than McGrath. As does Murphy but obviously he is going to Connacht. 9 as a specialist position requires game time game time and more game time.

Goodness do I hope Gunne makes a proper push next season. I had high hopes for Foley this year as 2 seasons ago his performances were promising. But this season has been a write off.

We haven't exactly been blessed with top class 9s in Leinster over the years but given we've produced internationals in literally every one of the other 14 positions since McGrath made his debut, there probably is coaching deficiencies at age grade that need looking at.

Paddy Patterson is a prime example of a player excelling in Munster and what might have been. Poor kid has had back to back ACL injuries and may never be the player he was. But when he had a run of games (8 starts in the URC last season, 14 appearances total including 2 in Europe) he was unquestionably playing better than McGrath

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132397#Comment_122132397

I'll never understand why we took Nick McCarthy back and sent Patterson down to Munster.

FrannoFan

The decision making around 9's is confusing.

Patterson looks good and was promising under age but was let go

Cooney has shown to be a good quality player

Luke is the only 9 we have produced and kept in the pro era!

considering the production in all other positions its hard to understand

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132418#Comment_122132418

Leo didnt rate Patterson.

Patterson also improved a lot while at Munster, leinsters development and coaching of scrumhalves has been lacking for years.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132397#Comment_122132397

I don't think Patterson has shown much at Munster to really prove anyone wrong. Those 8 starts were spread over 7 months, that is not a run of games. He gets games when Murray and Casey are away with Ireland (or injured) and that's it. There's no shame in that, he's got quality players in front of him, but at the same time he hasn't gone south and taken the place by storm.

Why we haven't managed to produce anyone else at 9 is an absolute mystery. I presume we're not coaching the 9s any differently to everyone else.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132418#Comment_122132418

His media work wasn't up to scratch.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132119#Comment_122132119

Consistency is an issue. Confidence not helped by injuries.

He was out in the new year with an ankle injury. Injured it again v Leicester.

Confusion reigns with Leinster injury "news".

Seems a bit odd to me that you would drop your backup 10 from the bench at this stage.

Maybe Nienaber/Cullen gave Frawley that 20mins at 10 for a 6-2 v Toulouse but without an outhalf on the bench!

Whatever concerns they might have of Harry, Frawley covering/finishing out the game at 10 v Toulouse is a recipe for disaster.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132206#Comment_122132206

Honestly, I did not factor in Luke when gauging RB's performance. So maybe this makes a difference. I'll watch for this on the rewatch.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132523#Comment_122132523

Well if JOB is back and takes the 15 position then if they go 6-2 on the bench it will also certainly be Frawley.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132501#Comment_122132501

"Those 8 starts were spread over 7 months, that is not a run of games"

This isn't true.

He started rounds 11,12,13,14,15,16 of the URC with a bench appearance in Europe between rounds 12 and 13.

Not to mention playing in rounds 1,2,6,7,8,9 and another appearance in Europe after round 9 where he had 2 starts in these games

All this includes starting the the friendly against South Africa A (between rounds 7 and 8) too where he was motm.

He ruptured his ACL in round 16. So he appeared in 12/16 URC games that season that he was fit for. Pretty good run of games to me.

But that point is moot. Yes he is 3rd choice in Munster when he's fit. Which is fine. But the point I'm making is YES I do think he played better than McGrath last season and I do think he brings a pace and accuracy in his pass that McGrath sorely lacks especially in recent seasons and there'd be a strong case for him being number 2 here

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132523#Comment_122132523

I really don't think Frawley having to finish a game at 10 would be a "disaster". He played the second half against La Rochelle (in La Rochelle) and did well. He's not a stopgap player there - he's arguably a better 10 than he is a 15.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132558#Comment_122132558

I know he can kick no bother. He did fine v LaR in a game where you aren't moving the ball from halfback.

It would be a "recipe for disaster" i.e. if you are trying to chase the game with Frawley at 10. And unfair to expect Frawley to seamlessly slot in at 10.

An unnecessary risk in my opinion if Harry is available.

it will be another intriguing selection v Ulster and of course Toulouse!

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132523#Comment_122132523

It's absolutely not a recipe for disaster. Frawley is an OH as well as a FB for Leinster. Even Andy Farrell included him in the wider Ireland squad as OH over Harry Byrne.

Harry may/may not be a better OH than Frawley but its fair to say that when Harry is having a bad outing, he's a much bigger liability than when Frawley has one. Plenty of games where Harry has been so poor that it's gotten to the point where he starts trying to force the game and puts the team under worse pressure.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132588#Comment_122132588

Playing 10 is bloody hard! Esp. if you are been asked to cover from FB

That's my point.

Plus you have to make two positional changes if your 10 goes off.

I'd be much more in favour of tuning up your backup 10 and have him 'ready to go' from the bench.

Dubinusa

How strong do Leinster go this week?

Dubinusa

At this stage, Ringrose, Keenan and Ryan look unlikely for the C.C. I would rest them up if the injuries are persistent. Maybe they're done for the season.