Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Paul Smeenus

We had a great coaching set-up that broke up, leaving us, if you will, in our Matt O'Connor years. The minute we lost Peel and Payne our extremely promising backs stalled, and Dan Soper's shift from skills coach to attack coach saw a drop in a skill level that, under his watch, had been formidable.

Then, Johnny Petrie, (who just wandered into Ulster and was given a job and absolutely wasn't given his CEO position by the IRFU) made bad decision after bad decision and was pish.

It's not Leinster's fault. No-one thinks it is. That's what's commonly termed a "straw man".

Sorry - in response to AdamD.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032051#Comment_122032051

Payne is a defence coach and not attack is he not?

I expect Nienaber might of had some input on Bleyandaal

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032061#Comment_122032061

Payne was defence coach at Ulster, but he's backs / attack coach at Scarlets.

He left Ulster because he didn't get the attack coach gig when it became available.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031842#Comment_122031842

You really aren't paying any attention at all. I am not excluding them. The fact that Leinster keep making knockout games and therefore bringing in more money reinforces my point, and why on earth would I exclude something that reinforces my point?

sydthebeat

Can you not at any stage admit that leinster have the best team because they have developed the best team??

Everything you say is dripping in resentment and jealousy and you can't at any stage see the wood for the trees.

Leinster developed Dan sheahan. The fact he's on a central contract now is due to the work leinster have put into the guy and Leinster 100% deserve to be at a benefit from this. Leinster absolutely have not bought success, which your post seems to try to claim. Let's not forget Leinster give most to IRFU as well, you only see one side of the ledger due to your bias.

You want to Ulster to get to a footing equal to Leinster? Well go sort your own house out first and show that you can actual properly invest and grow…Werner Kok FFS.....

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031960#Comment_122031960

Munster were the last province to win a trophy FFS.

People pointing to how long since Leinster won a trophy and were being described as 'underachieving' and 'chokers'.

Everything was rosy in the garden a few weeks ago with Munster fanbase, with players coming through who were potential superstars and others who have been unfairly snubbed by AF

Leinster convincingly beat LAR and sign a guy for 6 months and suddenly no province will never be able to compete again.

It is amazing how Leinster have managed to mentally destroy the online fanbases of multiple provinces in a 3 day window.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032061#Comment_122032061

I think his remit expanded to attack.

Bernard Jackman spoke about Bleyendaal on last Mondays Rugby Weekly podcast. His appointment had yet to be confirmed but he spoke about his surprise at the rumour. Said that Leinster had approached Payne to take up the role of attack coach. He sounded surprised Leinster then pivoted to Tyler.

Clegg

According to Murray Kinsella there are a number of conditions on Snyman's one year contract with Leinster as well. There's a limit to how many games he can play and starts he can make.

It's not like he'll monopolise game time and deprived a young Irish lock of appearances. Hamstrings Leinster somewhat as well.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032094#Comment_122032094

Can you not at any stage admit that leinster have the best team because they have developed the best team??

Nobody is saying otherwise! You guys cannot see the wood from the trees here. The discussion is how Leinster can develop the best team.

Are you saying that Leinster developing the best team has nothing whatsoever to do with money?

It has nothing whatsoever to having access to the elite and incredibly well funded Dublin private school system?

It has nothing whatsoever to do with having 10 of your best and highest paid players paid for you allowing you to divert funds to development?

These are total non-factors in the equation? Leinster develop the best team because everything is equal, the only difference is that the Leinster coaches are so amazing that they can churn out player after player working with the exact same conditions and raw materials as Ulster, Munster and Connacht. Is that what you're telling us?

 Let's not forget Leinster give most to IRFU as well, you only see one side of the ledger due to your bias.

We can't possibly forget this, it has only been mentioned and discussed about 20 times in the past 2 days.

The point you refuse to accept is that Leinster's contribution to the IRFU is in large part thanks to the funding Leinster get from the IRFU. When people have been talking about the self-perpetuating system I actually wonder what you think they were talking about, because raising "Leinster make the most money" as a counter-point to this discussion is bizarre given this point merely reinforces how self-perpetuating the system is.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032038#Comment_122032038

Because Leinster have many more good professionals, not necessarily internationals, that they can put their young fellas out amongst.

Having said that, McLaughlin, McNabney, Crothers, Carson, Hopes, Solomons and O'Brien all got their senior debuts this season, Wilson obviously at the end of last season. Is that of interest, or was it only Telfer you were curious about?

sydthebeat

There was a time we didn't have 10 central contracts. I wonder how we got to this point?

Can you admit that leinster have the best home grown academy produced team in Europe?

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032131#Comment_122032131

Who in their right mind wouldn't admit that? That's self evident.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032131#Comment_122032131

Yes. This is obvious, and nobody has ever denied this.

Can you admit that Leinster have the best funded academy system in Europe?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032164#Comment_122032164

I think Toulouse and other French teams have a lot more funding than Leinster have

Now I know that is not the answer you want, Leinster are the root of all issues in World rugby.

But in reality Leinster budget is nothing close to the big French and never will be. They also can't do what the French teams and spend huge money on multi year contracts for anyone they want. The both recent signing are for 1 year with loads of requirements in the contract

The second is a 6 month contract

Both Munster and Ulster have a huge advantage of owning their own stadium.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031960#Comment_122031960

I think Munster are doing well. They have had devastating injuries. In fairness to them, they've really found some quality underage players. Gleeson, Edogbo and Quinn are incredibly good prospects. They have the no.8 from the 20's who'll probably get into the academy. Progress is being made and they've promoted some lads this year. They also took a chance on Hadden and Foxe. Both of whom I expect to be good players. Munster kicked themselves in the nuts by having a gombeen running the show.

Connacht depend on signings. Mostly from Leinster. The coaching structure is a mess. They should be better that they've shown. Connacht are flailing. It's more so due to the incompetence of Wilkins.

Ulster are getting there in relation to the academy. Like Munster, lots of good prospects. MacFarland was an utter disaster for the last 28 months of his reign. There's so much wrong top to bottom with Ulster, it's difficult to fathom.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032211#Comment_122032211

I think Toulouse and other French teams have a lot more funding than Leinster have

What makes you think this?

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032061#Comment_122032061

True . But he has vast experience as an outside center and fb. I reckon he'd do the job.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032219#Comment_122032219

Wht makes you think they don't?

They have a private system which is massively funded by wealthy people plus huge tv money that the IRFU will never get.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032230#Comment_122032230

But the Leinster system is massively funded by the IRFU and wealthy people. I don't think the difference is in any way signficant.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032211#Comment_122032211

Ulster pay 20% VAT on tickets and players elhere don't get their sportsman's tax rebate.

Don't try the "my province has it more difficult than yours". You won't win.

Dubinusa

I was trying, poorly, to compare. As in Osborne playing and McErlean too. Whereas Telfer is just training. It's probably a poor comparison.

I for one am chuffed with the talent Ulster are now producing. I really like Sheridan and Wilson. I would guess they'll be top level players, whereas the likes of Crothers and Hopes will be decent squad players.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032032#Comment_122032032

Leinster used private investor money to build and staff both their main UCD training facilities for their main team and academy and sub-academy (opened 2011) and their Donnybrook Center of Excellence, which is specifically for pathway players (opened 2019). There are also 5 more of those centers planned around the province.

Leinster were planning to heavily invest in their facilities even before they won their first EC - a two year turnaround to move into a high performance space for their team and academy.

Over ten years after Munster's first EC win and their team and academy still wasn't even consistently training in the same county. Instead of facilities and coaching they dumped their money into big name signings, internal politics, and a white elephant stadium.

See the huge contrast? Is there any surprise that Munster had a huge fallow period in producing players, while Leinster went from strength to strength?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031720#Comment_122031720

i find it utterly bizarre that the well run parts of the organisation are somehow the problem here and the toxic omnishambles are the victim. Yet here we are.

If Leinster are an elite production line, almost singularly exceptional in world rugby (and they are), and the other provinces are falling short of that bar, does that make them "a toxic omnishambles"?

This is just hyperbolic.

Former Former Former

I’m not sure I see how the Leinster academy is better funded than any other.

surely academy players are paid a fairly standard pittance across the board, and the numbers taken in each year are roughly even?

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032244#Comment_122032244

I'm glad you've come to terms with all this. Keeping things bottled up is not good for you.

Dubinusa

Other rumors: Paddy McCarthy to Munster. Brownlee to Munster! Both a huge loss for Leinster if true.

Along with, Ed Byrne to Ulster, Max Deegan to Ulster. Berman/Deklerk on Ulster academy deals.

Lasisi to Connacht. Soroka to Connacht. Murphy to Connacht.

Sharing the wealth!

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032274#Comment_122032274

We know you're secretly one of ours, Dub. Just waiting for the command phrase that triggers you into psychotic, violent action.

SLEEPER CELL

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032293#Comment_122032293

ah come on, was it not exceedingly clear that I was referring to Ulster?

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032321#Comment_122032321

Lol! It's known that Ulster is my 2nd favorite team. And if I return to live in Ireland it would be possibly Belfast or Cavan.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032326#Comment_122032326

SHUT IT YOU