Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Modern Feminism-Good for Society?
Options
Comments
-
jam_mac_jam wrote: »We also need to remember the huge changes that have been made. My mum is in her sixties and had to give up her job when she got married. That was only in the seventies.
I have never been told that I couldn't do anything I wanted. One of my sisters is an electrical engineer. Her sex has never been a disadvantage to working in a male dominated career. It was never even mentioned that she couldn't do it when her mother had to give up an admin job.
There's a parallel between this post and another rights topic which was going on in the sixties. That of the civil rights movement in the US. As with modern day feminism being denounced. As we saw throughout last summer, modern day black activists are met with similar expressions as yours here 'Things have greatly improved from where they were' with the barely concealed undertone of 'what more could you want'. We know that civil rights activists of the 60's were denounced by many at the time in the same way 'you have the vote, how much more could you want' and 50 years before that their peers were told a version of 'you are no longer slaves, how much more could you want' as they looked for the right to vote.
Previous advances only happened because activists said that the status quo is not good enough and they eventually brought about change.
We had this earlier from the threadFeminism is the Accepted Truth in the vast majority of politics, thought and media in the West. ......................................In order to be proactive it would butt up against that tide. It's doable, but most people men and women couldn't be arsed and just go along with it, leaving the field open to cranks on twitter.
It's hard not to read that and think that if Feminism is still being used to advance opportunities and benefits for women (don't agree that it is seen as an accepted truth) and outside of that that most can't be arsed to go against the tide or advocate for the effective underclass that they see men as being then is it feminists fault they are fighting their corner as they see it?
It brings to mind again the focus of many conservatives in putting efforts in to denouncing liberal ideals (which they demean as SJW crusades, virtue signalling, NGO quango fueled gravy trains etc) as opposed to advocating in order to improve the lives of people who they see as suffering, struggling or being treated unequally.
If there was as much effort put in to advocating for family law court improvements in terms of access, custody, finance payments etc as there is in getting outraged about a myriad of liberal topics (even those which are contrived strawmen manufactured by those that then express outrage) then maybe it would be better for all involved.0 -
Yep , that's how it is these days with the WOKE clergy dictating morality
Woke clergy? Ahh would you ever stop with the embarassing buzzwords.
Woke, snowflake, Karen...all terms that only reflect on the person using them. Now we have woke clergy.
I've never heard people actually using terms like that in real life, they'd be laughed out of it.
Woke clergy? Far from woke clergy anyone round here was raised.0 -
feminists portray the wage - income gap as being the same thing as the " gender pay gap "
I mean, look at this thread. No one seems to understand what the pay gap is or what it means because everyone's busy being offended by what 'feminists' say.
Meanwhile, a feminist comes onto the thread and makes numerous attempts to clear it up and define it, and even provides a report from the Central Bank of Ireland to prove it is indeed a thing. Yet everyone's response is 'no, feminists tell lies about this'. I'm a feminist. I'm here. I'm one of very few people on this thread concerned about fact and backing up what they're saying. I'm more relevant to the thread than any anecdote kildarelad wants to tell about his ma.
The truth is, most feminists aren't the ones you're listening to (wherever it is that everyone's listening to them - no one has actually provided any fact or evidence, but I'll take it on trust since there's fairly crazy people out there in any community or activist group). Most feminists are like myself. People who believe in gender equality, even as it applies to men's rights, who have lives and jobs and don't really have the time or reason to be shouting their opinions from the rooftops every day.
It's not often hard-working, reasonable people who are gonna get up on a platform every day to shout about what makes them angry. So you're much better off to take feminism as it's defined when you're talking about (i.e. equality, which is what I and many other people believe in), and leave the 'but feminists said this to me and it hurt my feelings' for a conversation about a particular feminist or a particular feminist group. Otherwise we're all just working off completely different versions of the truth.The " gender pay gap " thing only requires being taken seriously if you are someone who believes that everyone should be paid the exact same regardless of hours worked , level of qualification or market demand , not surprisingly most of this kind of activism is rooted in marxism
Yeah, last time. The gender pay gap is not designed to make every job have a 50/50 gender headcount (as kildarelad has latched onto). It's also not designed to make each individual in the world earn the same regardless of their role (as you're saying above).
It's designed to look at differences between average earnings based on gender at a company wide, sector wide, country wide or global level. This doesn't mean a secretary should be paid the same as a CEO, it just asks questions like 'why aren't women becoming CEOs?'. While some of this is choice, there are barriers for women. Some of these barriers are even what leads to the choice.
As for being a marxist if you take it seriously, studies have shown that diversity is profitable, so businesses, governments, and the UN are taking it very seriously indeed.0 -
true-or-false wrote: »I mean, look at this thread. No one seems to understand what the pay gap is or what it means because everyone's busy being offended by what 'feminists' say.
Meanwhile, a feminist comes onto the thread and makes numerous attempts to clear it up and define it, and even provides a report from the Central Bank of Ireland to prove it is indeed a thing. Yet everyone's response is 'no, feminists tell lies about this'. I'm a feminist. I'm here. I'm one of very few people on this thread concerned about fact and backing up what they're saying. I'm more relevant to the thread than any anecdote kildarelad wants to tell about his ma.
The truth is, most feminists aren't the ones you're listening to (wherever it is that everyone's listening to them - no one has actually provided any fact or evidence, but I'll take it on trust since there's fairly crazy people out there in any community or activist group). Most feminists are like myself. People who believe in gender equality, even as it applies to men's rights, who have lives and jobs and don't really have the time or reason to be shouting their opinions from the rooftops every day.
It's not often hard-working, reasonable people who are gonna get up on a platform every day to shout about what makes them angry. So you're much better off to take feminism as it's defined when you're talking about (i.e. equality, which is what I and many other people believe in), and leave the 'but feminists said this to me and it hurt my feelings' for a conversation about a particular feminist or a particular feminist group. Otherwise we're all just working off completely different versions of the truth.
Yeah, last time. The gender pay gap is not designed to make every job have a 50/50 gender headcount (as kildarelad has latched onto). It's also not designed to make each individual in the world earn the same regardless of their role (as you're saying above).
It's designed to look at differences between average earnings based on gender at a company wide, sector wide, country wide or global level. This doesn't mean a secretary should be paid the same as a CEO, it just asks questions like 'why aren't women becoming CEOs?'. While some of this is choice, there are barriers for women. Some of these barriers are even what leads to the choice.
As for being a marxist if you take it seriously, studies have shown that diversity is profitable, so businesses, governments, and the UN are taking it very seriously indeed.
https://qz.com/1567008/the-systemic-reasons-why-the-gender-pay-gap-increases-over-time/
The reason is starting to emerge in analyses of experiments and national datasets. Anzil looked at earnings data for more than 3 million people in the 2017 American Community Survey. Early in their careers, he found, single men and women without children have almost no pay gap, on average. During this period, women’s wages per hour are equal to, or even slightly higher than, men’s wages.
The source of this discrepancy, Anzil argues, is the difference in the number of hours women were working (whether or not they had children) compared to their male counterparts. Using US Census data, Anzil estimated men worked an average of 41 hours per week at their jobs, while women worked an average of 36 hours per week. Over time, those hours added up. And not just to earning less money—women who work fewer hours also gain less experience over time. This means their hourly wage stagnates, along with their annual incomes.
Their conclusion was that the major source of the pay discrepancy was men and women’s choices about working hours: not just how many hours, but when they were worked. Men tended to work longer hours, took on more last-minute shifts, and arranged schedules to secure 83% more overtime hours per year. Women, meanwhile, took more unpaid time off through the Family Medical Leave Act, accepted fewer last-minute overtime hours, and avoided weekend and holiday shifts. They even worked more dangerous routes (those with more accidents) in exchange for more desirable times. That mirrored experimental results in a separate study in which women with young children reported they were willing to give up almost 40% of their earnings to avoid irregular schedules0 -
Sorry, but it's as clear as day in this thread,. Let's talk about boobs, burn the bras, casual sexism, throw in a bit of transphobia for good measure.
Robust discussion is fine, but you are not seeing robust discussion...its all one sided whinging and generalisations.
Blue haired nose ring lesbians....yet I notice that no one spoke out about that gross generalisation.
Women have recently expressed concerns about the standard of discussions on boards and their fear of posting. The moderators have a duty of care to uphold the basic qualitative standards of boards.ie and calibration of same across all forums. Demeaning women to boobs or burning bras is the type of casual sexism that should be called out and actioned. Robust discussion, great, casual sexism, not acceptable.
This is evident on this thread, the demeaning of women to boobs, bras and then of course trans people, sure they have no say whatsoever.
There is an echo chamber alright, but it's all one way. If people are afraid to or avoid posting due to being rounded on, that's all you have. If that's what you want. Its s question bigger than this thread.
Would have to agree with a lot of this. Boards is an echo chamber that goes unchecked a lot of the time and drowns out minority voices.
This thread contains mostly strawman argument - railing against 'modern feminism' without saying what 'modern feminism' is or who they are arguing against.
Its across the board (forgive the pun) - the anti traveller rhetoric is truly shocking, while the new Cultural Affairs forum seems to be frequently a domain for punters of a particular mind set to vent about 'minorities'.
To your point - boards.ie is owned by a media company whose accounts indicate all directors to be white, Irish, male.
Nothing unusual about that, its the norm for Irish companies.0 -
Advertisement
-
Woke clergy? Ahh would you ever stop with the embarassing buzzwords.
Woke, snowflake, Karen...all terms that only reflect on the person using them. Now we have woke clergy.
I've never heard people actually using terms like that in real life, they'd be laughed out of it.
Woke clergy? Far from woke clergy anyone round here was raised.
Big style - for every 1 person that would claim to be WOKE, there are 20 punters giving out about WOKE.0 -
Would have to agree with a lot of this. Boards is an echo chamber that goes unchecked a lot of the time and drowns out minority voices.
This thread contains a lot of strawman argument - railing against 'modern feminism' without saying what 'modern feminism' is or who they are arguing against.
I don't know what it is. I've said that early on here.
Anytime its mentioned, someone brings up blue haired lesbians.
I do see the glass ceiling for women in business and it's good to explore those opinions.
I'd always considered feminism at a very basic belief as in full social, economic, and political equality for women.
There is still work to be done here, so it's still needed.
At a basic level, gender stereotypes need to be broken for children, Peter, with his bravery does not have to be a fireman while Mary with her caring nature is a nurse.
On another thread, WOKE-ism of the day, there was great skit at someone in drag reading stories to kids. What they actually miss in their rush to mock , is that kids accept whoever is reading them the story. The adults are the ones who have a problem with it.0 -
The type of comment that really gets me is "I know a lot of normal women....."
(i) sure they are only half the worlds population pal, but well done on the achievement.
(ii) You, of all people, get to decide what normal women are, and what they arent.
(iii) and by your decision, anyone who is a 'modern feminist' isnt a normal woman0 -
EmmetSpiceland wrote: »When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Is that what women say in family court?0 -
Tell me how wrote: »There's a parallel between this post and another rights topic which was going on in the sixties.
The Schlafly “spirit” lives on, on this site anyway.Its across the board (forgive the pun) - the anti traveller rhetoric is truly shocking, while the new Cultural Affairs forum seems to be frequently a domain for punters of a particular mind set to vent about 'minorities'.
Current Affairs, not cultural. And it is no longer the sole domain of these “types”. AH has been overrun due to cross contamination of unsuitable, and hateful, threads being left as a “staging area” for infection.“It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis
0 -
Advertisement
-
true-or-false wrote: »It's designed to look at differences between average earnings based on gender at a company wide, sector wide, country wide or global level. This doesn't mean a secretary should be paid the same as a CEO, it just asks questions like 'why aren't women becoming CEOs?'. While some of this is choice, there are barriers for women. Some of these barriers are even what leads to the choice.
If that's what the pay gap is then it should really be renamed as the opportunities gap. To my knowledge the pay gap used to refer to the fact that men and women were not being paid equal pay for equal work. Maybe that was never the case though and I'm mistaken. Either way it seems like a poor choice of descriptor.0 -
Would have to agree with a lot of this. Boards is an echo chamber that goes unchecked a lot of the time and drowns out minority voices.
This thread contains mostly strawman argument - railing against 'modern feminism' without saying what 'modern feminism' is or who they are arguing against.
Its across the board (forgive the pun) - the anti traveller rhetoric is truly shocking, while the new Cultural Affairs forum seems to be frequently a domain for punters of a particular mind set to vent about 'minorities'.
To your point - boards.ie is owned by a media company whose accounts indicate all directors to be white, Irish, male.
Nothing unusual about that, its the norm for Irish companies.
If women are so upset with the white Irish male , why don't you not set up up your own media company instead of moaning about it . Women are half the population of the country you should have plenty of support in your endeavor0 -
kildare lad wrote: »If women are so upset with the white Irish male , why don't you not set up up your own media company instead of moaning about it . Women are half the population of the country you should have plenty of support in your endeavor
Whoosh, and the whole point if the thread goes right over your head.
Feminism at its core is about equality, and people striving to achieve that across all all platforms.0 -
Anytime its mentioned, someone brings up blue haired lesbians.
I think this was mentioned by someone once in maby the first page who has since not posted in the thread. You've latched on to this (how many times have you referenced in in the thread now 10?) and one or two other comments and ignored a lot of the more moderate points on here.
If you grab one or two comments and use them as a springboard to show mysogeny then your not really interested in debate or conversation your just shouting at people (who are no longer here to see your posts anyway)
Honestly this is a large issue with the modern feminist movement. Feminism in and of itself of coarse has it's place but when you eschew the conversation going on to highlight the troll or crazy person then your not Interested in the conversation your just interested in finding a way to be offended0 -
-
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59038
It is. However - and this is part of the problem in much of discourse today - the wider content is ignored in favour of the content that winds people up. One guy posted "boobs", which has since been deleted, another took the piss out of your username, he's gone too, the pink hair post has also been actioned. Never mind other posters calling BS on the posts.I've said early on in this thread that I've no idea about feminism, left right or centre, so I'm not going to argue with people who have read on it or know wave 1, 2, 3 or whatever it is.
Notwithstanding that, I'm 100 percent clear when someone is trying to demean women or equate their value to a pair of boobs.
So, rather than waffle on, I'll only comment on what I'm knowledgeable on and feel strongly about. I'm sure you will agree that's a perfectly reasonable argument.
So out of currently as of typing this a 167 posts on the topic, 3 or 4 are the ones you highlight as representations of misogyny on Boards.ie. Let's double, even triple that figure and it would still be a minority, yet they're the posts and posters you feel defines the environment of the thread and site. See the problem with that?Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
0 -
Woke clergy? Ahh would you ever stop with the embarassing buzzwords.
Woke, snowflake, Karen...all terms that only reflect on the person using them. Now we have woke clergy.
I've never heard people actually using terms like that in real life, they'd be laughed out of it.
Woke clergy? Far from woke clergy anyone round here was raised.
I've never encountered anyone who mentions "trans people " as often as you do or people who police other's language like you do
I can imagine the local priest sermonising about language in the fifties alight0 -
Whoosh, and the whole point if the thread goes right over your head.
Feminism at its core is about equality, and people striving to achieve that across all all platforms.
I think that point has been lost. The most extreme examples are promoted to discredit it as a whole. The idea promoted that it's all about men hating when of course its not.
I personally think feminism has been great for women and for society. Without it half the population wouldn't have the same rights as the other half of the population. There would be no rape crisis centres or domestic violence centres.
At it's most basic idea the idea that women should have less opportunities because of their sex would be rejected by the majority of people. So we are all really feminists now.0 -
Would have to agree with a lot of this. Boards is an echo chamber that goes unchecked a lot of the time and drowns out minority voices.
This thread contains mostly strawman argument - railing against 'modern feminism' without saying what 'modern feminism' is or who they are arguing against.
Its across the board (forgive the pun) - the anti traveller rhetoric is truly shocking, while the new Cultural Affairs forum seems to be frequently a domain for punters of a particular mind set to vent about 'minorities'.
To your point - boards.ie is owned by a media company whose accounts indicate all directors to be white, Irish, male.
Nothing unusual about that, its the norm for Irish companies.
When it comes to travellers, I reckon boards.ie is an accurate reflection of how the general population thinks
Perhaps travellers should reflect on that?0 -
I don't know what it is. I've said that early on here.
Anytime its mentioned, someone brings up blue haired lesbians.
I do see the glass ceiling for women in business and it's good to explore those opinions.
I'd always considered feminism at a very basic belief as in full social, economic, and political equality for women.
There is still work to be done here, so it's still needed.
At a basic level, gender stereotypes need to be broken for children, Peter, with his bravery does not have to be a fireman while Mary with her caring nature is a nurse.
On another thread, WOKE-ism of the day, there was great skit at someone in drag reading stories to kids. What they actually miss in their rush to mock , is that kids accept whoever is reading them the story. The adults are the ones who have a problem with it.
Why do " gender stereotypes need to be broken for children " ?0 -
Advertisement
-
I've never encountered anyone who mentions "trans people " as often as you do or people who police other's language like you do
I can imagine the local priest sermonising about language in the fifties alight
People don't like being called out on their bad behaviour or language or targeting minority groups to get a cheap laugh at. (Fat women in leggings anyone?). If calling it out makes it easier for others to do so, well, then bring it on. Some people wont like that, but ah well.
Yeah, Reverend Alden from Little House back in the day must have been the first of the Woke Clergy.0 -
Feminism, like all those movements, can start out with an ideology that seems fair and makes sense but over time gets muddled.
The mind is a powerful yet mad thing. Covid-19 had told us that. There are those who feel Corona is made from 5-g masts. To some new world order manipulating, to it being a conspiracy to put mind-controlling chips in vaccines. Yes. Mind-controlling chips in vaccines. The world is mad.
People take what they see and twist it to see their own vision of the world. It's all self-serving tho.0 -
People don't like being called out on their bad behaviour or language or targeting minority groups to get a cheap laugh at. (Fat women in leggings anyone?). If calling it out makes it easier for others to do so, well, then bring it on. Some people wont like that, but ah well.
Yeah, Reverend Alden from Little House back in the day must have been the first of the Woke Clergy.
Who appointed you the arbiter of what is " bad behaviour " ?0 -
It is. However - and this is part of the problem in much of discourse today - the wider content is ignored in favour of the content that winds people up. One guy posted "boobs", which has since been deleted, another took the piss out of your username, he's gone too, the pink hair post has also been actioned. Never mind other posters calling BS on the posts.
So out of currently as of typing this a 167 posts on the topic, 3 or 4 are the ones you highlight as representations of misogyny on Boards.ie. Let's double, even triple that figure and it would still be a minority, yet they're the posts and posters you feel defines the environment of the thread and site. See the problem with that?
Wibbs
If you look at the very first page of this thread, the 7th post down is one word - Boobs.
It hasnt been deleted.
It was thanked by 7 people, including yourself.
Not blaming you for this, you are entitled to thank what you want.
I would love however to hear from a Mod as to why it was allowed stand.
What is the thinking behind the moderatorship that makes this acceptable.0 -
EmmetSpiceland wrote: »Men: the real victim.
It’s okay, I feel you. It’s not easy being a cis, whyte, heterosexual male aged 18-49 these days. Not easy at all. Cant even look at, let alone talk to, a woman.
I was walking in Stephens Green with my oh.
She slapped me in the arse, to say wait til i get you home.
I slapped her in the arse to say cant wait.
When my slap connected we were about to sit on a bench. She sat on it. I walked on a few feet to throw something in the bin.
I turned around and two girls were over to her with their arms around her asking her if she wanted to call the police.
I sat down beside her and said whats wrong.
One of them said "This lady has just been assaulted, we need to call the police."
It dawned on me that they saw the arse slap. So I said "I know, I am the one who assaulted her." One welled up in a rage and the other copped on what was going on and pulled her away a but embarrassed.
We laughed it off but that is really serious behaviour from the white knights.0 -
-
I was walking in Stephens Green with my oh.
She slapped me in the arse, to say wait til i get you home.
I slapped her in the arse to say cant wait.
When my slap connected we were about to sit on a bench. She sat on it. I walked on a few feet to throw something in the bin.
I turned around and two girls were over to her with their arms around her asking her if she wanted to call the police.
I sat down beside her and said whats wrong.
One of them said "This lady has just been assaulted, we need to call the police."
It dawned on me that they saw the arse slap. So I said "I know, I am the one who assaulted her." One welled up in a rage and the other copped on what was going on and pulled her away a but embarrassed.
We laughed it off but that is really serious behaviour from the white knights.
You are truly the victim in this world.0 -
Given your post about travellers above, I believe you have demonstrated exactly what I am talking about.
The one where i said the following?
"I reckon boards.ie is an accurate reflection of the general populations views when it comes to travellers"
I stand over that opinion, people like you want sacred cow status for travellers, the majority want them to meet the same standards expected of the rest of us yet you view yourself as a proponent of " equality ' ?0 -
You are truly the victim in this world.
The point is that women in the western world aren't victims either.
We have full autonomy over our bodies and life choices now, he'll there's even gender quotas to make access to education and some careers easier.
We have choices and opportunities that our mothers could only dream of, and that our grandmothers wouldn't have even thought to dream about.0 -
Advertisement
-
Leg End Reject wrote: »The point is that women in the western world aren't victims either.
We have full autonomy over our bodies and life choices now, he'll there's even gender quotas to make access to education and some careers easier.
We have choices and opportunities that our mothers could only dream of, and that our grandmothers wouldn't have even thought to dream about.
Yes but an ever expanding industry exists for those for whom permanent revolution is the goal, thus more and more grievances must be invented0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement