Modern Feminism-Good for Society?

anewme

kildare lad wrote: »

I think men earn more money in general it's because there's more money in jobs that men dominate like construction or business compared to childcare or nursing. .

You are actually reinforcing the gender gaps here.

Define what you mean by business?

Tony EH

Yurt! wrote: »

The average male works 40.1 hours per week and the average female 32.3 hours. Now some of that could be due to childcare responsibilities (which I'd guess would peak for a few years in the late 20s / early 30s), but extrapolated out across an economy and across entire careers with a couple of million workers, that's a lot of man(and women) hours difference. Perhaps it's unsurprising that men get paid more given that they on average work 20% more hours than females?

https://www.cso.ie/en/csolatestnews/pressreleases/2020pressreleases/pressstatementwomenandmeninireland2019/

Which means that there's a "earnings" gap, based on the fact that men work for longer during their lifetime, rather than a "pay" gap which suggest something else.

jam_mac_jam

We also need to remember the huge changes that have been made. My mum is in her sixties and had to give up her job when she got married. That was only in the seventies.

I have never been told that I couldn't do anything I wanted. One of my sisters is an electrical engineer. Her sex has never been a disadvantage to working in a male dominated career. It was never even mentioned that she couldn't do it when her mother had to give up an admin job.

Ten of Swords

whisky_galore wrote: »

anewbuzzkill

Do not post in this thread again

kildare lad

anewme wrote: »

You are actually reinforcing the gender gaps here.

Define what you mean by business?

I'm talking about career choices . Generally male dominated industries pay better . For example I could walk into a building site tomorrow , have no education or qualifications and still take home about 600 euro, as long as I was willing to shovel all day. Give me an example where women can do that ?

kildare lad

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We also need to remember the huge changes that have been made. My mum is in her sixties and had to give up her job when she got married. That was only in the seventies.

I have never been told that I couldn't do anything I wanted. One of my sisters is an electrical engineer. Her sex has never been a disadvantage to working in a male dominated career. It was never even mentioned that she couldn't do it when her mother had to give up an admin job.

Don't let feminists hear you say that .

Galwayguy35

kildare lad wrote: »

I'm talking about career choices . Generally male dominated industries pay better . For example I could walk into a building site tomorrow , have no education or qualifications and still take home about 600 euro, as long as I was willing to shovel all day. Give me an example where women can do that ?

Well no not without a safe pass you couldn't.

kildare lad

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well no not without a safe pass you couldn't.

You got me there ...lol

Feisar

kildare lad wrote: »

I'm talking about career choices . Generally male dominated industries pay better . For example I could walk into a building site tomorrow , have no education or qualifications and still take home about 600 euro, as long as I was willing to shovel all day. Give me an example where women can do that ?

Hopefully OnlyFans balances things out.

anewme

kildare lad wrote: »

I'm talking about career choices . Generally male dominated industries pay better . For example I could walk into a building site tomorrow , have no education or qualifications and still take home about 600 euro, as long as I was willing to shovel all day. Give me an example where women can do that ?

I specifically asked you to define what you mean by business as you said business was a male career choice.

kildare lad

Feisar wrote: »

Hopefully OnlyFans balances things out.

Only the good looking ones

kildare lad

anewme wrote: »

I specifically asked you to define what you mean by business as you said business was a male career choice.

As in theres more men that own businesses , work in the top positions compared to women ...now you answer my question what job could women do where they could take home 600 quid with no qualifications besides Onlyfans

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Which means that there's a "earnings" gap, based on the fact that men work for longer during their lifetime, rather than a "pay" gap which suggest something else.

Okay I'm gonna try one more time to point this out.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/gender-pay-gap-reporting: "The gender pay gap is the difference between the average (mean or median) earnings of men and women across a workforce."

The very things that gender pay gap reporting is designed to address are the same things people are listing here as reasons why it doesn't exist. The figures used to calculate the gender pay gap for example within a company, include the CEO's salary and include the admin staff's salary. A CEO is more likely to be male, while a secretary is more likely to be female. The gender pay gap helps us ask why this is, and to put initiatives in place to challenge this norm. It includes things like hiring more male teachers/carers etc., just as much as it involves looking at promotion opportunities for women.

It is NOT designed to detect lower pay for the same work. It's designed to help measure the less directly comparable factors in women's earnings, such as why the might not be promoted at the same frequency, why they may not be as successful in salary negotiation, why they're more likely to engage in part time work, or work in lower paid care/hospitality focused sectors, or have career setbacks because of maternity leave etc.

arex93

I considered myself as a feminist when I was younger. But I've started feeling uncomfortable with the feminist hypocrisy and now I'm just fed up of all their bul***. They say western culture is toxic to women, but close their eyes to occident. While they defends the body positivity and to accept ourselves as we are, they say nothing when children start homorne therapy to change their gender. Ten years ago feminists were talking about how it's important deal with female sexuality without taboo. Now there are feminists who avoid speaking about female issues (menstruation, pregnancy) to not hurt trans women (male) feelings ffs!

But I know there are still some radical feminists who are concerned for real women problems, those feminists I still support.

anewme

This thread has it all..sexism, misogyny, transphobia...in fact, it is a case in point of what needs to be tackled by Boards Management.

kildare lad

true-or-false wrote: »

Okay I'm gonna try one more time to point this out.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/gender-pay-gap-reporting: "The gender pay gap is the difference between the average (mean or median) earnings of men and women across a workforce."

The very things that gender pay gap reporting is designed to address are the same things people are listing here as reasons why it doesn't exist. The figures used to calculate the gender pay gap for example within a company, include the CEO's salary and include the admin staff's salary. A CEO is more likely to be male, while a secretary is more likely to be female. The gender pay gap helps us ask why this is, and to put initiatives in place to challenge this norm. It includes things like hiring more male teachers/carers etc., just as much as it involves looking at promotion opportunities for women.

It is NOT designed to detect lower pay for the same work. It's designed to help measure the less directly comparable factors in women's earnings, such as why the might not be promoted at the same frequency, why they may not be as successful in salary negotiation, why they're more likely to engage in part time work, or work in lower paid care/hospitality focused sectors, or have career setbacks because of maternity leave etc.

Are they going to address the amount of men that work as binmen , I'm sick to death of seeing no women in this industry collecting rubbish . It's damn right sexist and should be addressed also

jam_mac_jam

true-or-false wrote: »

Okay I'm gonna try one more time to point this out.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/gender-pay-gap-reporting: "The gender pay gap is the difference between the average (mean or median) earnings of men and women across a workforce."

The very things that gender pay gap reporting is designed to address are the same things people are listing here as reasons why it doesn't exist. The figures used to calculate the gender pay gap for example within a company, include the CEO's salary and include the admin staff's salary. A CEO is more likely to be male, while a secretary is more likely to be female. The gender pay gap helps us ask why this is, and to put initiatives in place to challenge this norm. It includes things like hiring more male teachers/carers etc., just as much as it involves looking at promotion opportunities for women.

It is NOT designed to detect lower pay for the same work. It's designed to help measure the less directly comparable factors in women's earnings, such as why the might not be promoted at the same frequency, why they may not be as successful in salary negotiation, why they're more likely to engage in part time work, or work in lower paid care/hospitality focused sectors, or have career setbacks because of maternity leave etc.

That's not how it is used though. It is used as a way to show that sexism explains the gap when it is more complex then that. And is both as a result of society and also the choices made by women.

Many women want to take time off for their children for example. And they should have the right to do this if they wish.

But your career will likely suffer. I know I have made sacrifices in my career due to having a child. Such as doing less overtime or being less motivated to go for new jobs due to less security.

growleaves

Not good for society. It encourages women to see men as zero-sum competitors and this can lead to a lot of bitterness.

anewme

Mr Pyke wrote: »

Cancel Boards!!!!

No, cancel bigotry and misogyny, which has no place on a Community Forum.

EmmetSpiceland

anewme wrote: »

No, cancel bigotry and misogyny, which has no place on a Community Forum.

Wasn’t too bad when it was “confined” to one place but that’s not the case anymore.

Wibbs

anewme wrote: »

This thread has it all..sexism, misogyny, transphobia...in fact, it is a case in point of what needs to be tackled by Boards Management.

Robust debate around currently Accepted Truths? Or do you think we got it right this time? I hate to break it to you, but every culture in history, no matter how considered, or daft, or outright venomous thought the same.

But hey, let's appeal to daddy authority when one can't debate, or want an echo chamber of broad agreement on whatever politic and philosophy you adhere to and certainly we can't be having dissent from the script.

That's an all too common trend in the last decade, and it goes for all politics and philosophies of all stripes; right, left, shake it all about, whatever you're having yourself. It's a big reason for the decline in general arenas on the interwebs and beyond where different viewpoints may be read. God forbid. *triggered* People are usually far more happy to have their preconceived notions supported than encounter difficult questions around same. It runs the appalling risk of changing one's mind and we can't be having that. No sirree.

Vestiapx

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We also need to remember the huge changes that have been made. My mum is in her sixties and had to give up her job when she got married. That was only in the seventies.

I have never been told that I couldn't do anything I wanted. One of my sisters is an electrical engineer. Her sex has never been a disadvantage to working in a male dominated career. It was never even mentioned that she couldn't do it when her mother had to give up an admin job.

Your mother married very young, that stopped in 1973 and while it's was wrong and hard to even believe happened so recently it was nothibg to do with any of the men that work today. Not one man working at the moment influenced that policy. The overwhelmingly vast number of men currently working or of working age fully support women haveing total equality buy we are still treated like the enemy by modern feminism.

An earlier poster pointed out we haven't had a female Chief but we have had female presidents and I wonder which politician that happens to be female they think would have had the political clout and also deserve to have got the job. Who missed out as it were?

kildare lad

true-or-false wrote: »

Okay I'm gonna try one more time to point this out.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/gender-pay-gap-reporting: "The gender pay gap is the difference between the average (mean or median) earnings of men and women across a workforce."

The very things that gender pay gap reporting is designed to address are the same things people are listing here as reasons why it doesn't exist. The figures used to calculate the gender pay gap for example within a company, include the CEO's salary and include the admin staff's salary. A CEO is more likely to be male, while a secretary is more likely to be female. The gender pay gap helps us ask why this is, and to put initiatives in place to challenge this norm. It includes things like hiring more male teachers/carers etc., just as much as it involves looking at promotion opportunities for women.

It is NOT designed to detect lower pay for the same work. It's designed to help measure the less directly comparable factors in women's earnings, such as why the might not be promoted at the same frequency, why they may not be as successful in salary negotiation, why they're more likely to engage in part time work, or work in lower paid care/hospitality focused sectors, or have career setbacks because of maternity leave etc.

I hung around with a guy when I was younger, whose dad was on the board of one of the biggest companies in Ireland . I'd say I seen his dad a handful of times growing up. He was never home , never had time to bring my friend training or go to his matches and that was the same with the rest of his siblings, ye they had a huge house and loads of nice clothes but he hardly spent anytime with his kids growing up . The wife ended up divorcing him.

When I worked in a very big shop during the resession . It was a woman who ran the shop . She only had kids in her 40s through IVF as she was more focussed on her career , which she was very successful at . As she was working non stop and so was her husband , her two kids spent more time with the au pair than their parents . Whatever you're into I suppose

It might look good on paper about being this high flying business man or woman but you've to sacrifice a huge amount to get there . Ask yourself this , are you better off having loads of money and miss loads of things in your kids lives growing up or working a lesser job and get to watch your kids growing up. I know which one id pick .

nerd69

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That's not how it is used though. It is used as a way to show that sexism explains the gap when it is more complex then that. And is both as a result of society and also the choices made by women.

Many women want to take time off for their children for example. And they should have the right to do this if they wish.

But your career will likely suffer. I know I have made sacrifices in my career due to having a child. Such as doing less overtime or being less motivated to go for new jobs due to less security.

Ya that's pretty much the sum of it I think my wife had an Industry job earning a bit over twice her current wage but didn't like the stress of it so went teaching..she enjoys the time off with the family more and finds it much more rewarding. It would be far less likely for a man to do so

To answer the original question nothing wrong with feminism in theory but a lot of it these days seems more symptomatic of the greater issue whereby people try to find a way to make themselves a victim if anything.

pwurple

This thread is the usual car crash on this topic I see.

theballz

No it’s bullshįt

jam_mac_jam

Vestiapx wrote: »

Your mother married very young, that stopped in 1973 and while it's was wrong and hard to even believe happened so recently it was nothibg to do with any of the men that work today. Not one man working at the moment influenced that policy. The overwhelmingly vast number of men currently working or of working age fully support women haveing total equality buy we are still treated like the enemy by modern feminism.

An earlier poster pointed out we haven't had a female Chief but we have had female presidents and I wonder which politician that happens to be female they think would have had the political clout and also deserve to have got the job. Who missed out as it were?

I don't think any men would agree with that policy. I am just pointing out how far we have come in a generation.

FunLover18

kildare lad wrote: »

I hung around with a guy when I was younger, whose dad was on the board of one of the biggest companies in Ireland . I'd say I seen his dad a handful of times growing up. He was never home , never had time to bring my friend training or go to his matches and that was the same with the rest of his siblings, ye they had a huge house and loads of nice clothes but he hardly spent anytime with his kids growing up . The wife ended up divorcing him.

When I worked in a very big shop during the resession . It was a woman who ran the shop . She only had kids in her 40s through IVF as she was more focussed on her career , which she was very successful at . As she was working non stop and so was her husband , her two kids spent more time with the au pair than their parents . Whatever you're into I suppose

It might look good on paper about being this high flying business man or woman but you've to sacrifice a huge amount to get there . Ask yourself this , are you better off having loads of money and miss loads of things in your kids lives growing up or working a lesser job and get to watch your kids growing up. I know which one id pick .

What the hell has this got to do with feminism?

Yurt2

true-or-false wrote: »

Okay I'm gonna try one more time to point this out.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/gender-pay-gap-reporting: "The gender pay gap is the difference between the average (mean or median) earnings of men and women across a workforce."

The very things that gender pay gap reporting is designed to address are the same things people are listing here as reasons why it doesn't exist. The figures used to calculate the gender pay gap for example within a company, include the CEO's salary and include the admin staff's salary. A CEO is more likely to be male, while a secretary is more likely to be female. The gender pay gap helps us ask why this is, and to put initiatives in place to challenge this norm. It includes things like hiring more male teachers/carers etc., just as much as it involves looking at promotion opportunities for women.

It is NOT designed to detect lower pay for the same work. It's designed to help measure the less directly comparable factors in women's earnings, such as why the might not be promoted at the same frequency, why they may not be as successful in salary negotiation, why they're more likely to engage in part time work, or work in lower paid care/hospitality focused sectors, or have career setbacks because of maternity leave etc.

Women are less competitive by their very nature, men have sharper elbows for a reason. There is less of a tariff for females in the dating market and marriage for having a lower status or a lower-paid job. Females almost never marry down the social or economic hierarchy and strive to marry up. That's a taboo thing to mention, but it's true across almost every culture you care to mention. Both men and women understand this very well, even though it's not verbalized.

Men do a far broader range of jobs. For instance, women are almost entirely absent from the outdoor economy: oil rigging, power line maintenance; construction; maintaining the built environment; deep sea fishing - you name it, and that's a huge part of the economy. Females just aren't in those occupations, they're indoors almost exlusively, in a narrower range of occupations by choice, and competing in the same labour pool as men as well. And the more economically and socially liberated a society it is, the less likely a women is to choose these (often lucrative) outdoor careers, not more.

Leg End Reject

anewme wrote: »

This thread has it all..sexism, misogyny, transphobia...in fact, it is a case in point of what needs to be tackled by Boards Management.

I normally agree with you but I just don't see that at all.

We all have different life experiences and values, I think everyone posting here is just expressing their opinion.