Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Hector Savage

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1366352250302513156?s=20

I can't see the Irish government keeping a travel ban on within the EU this year, maybe further afield yes, but not EU, EEA or UK.

This is actually good news, if it gets me back to travelling home to Ireland quicker I am all for it .. haven't been on the green sod since December 2019

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ill make it easy for you.
We have 4.9 million people in the country.
There are 700k over 65 leaving 4.2million under 65

Deaths as today are 4319
92% of that is 3973.

As a percentage of over all population in over 65s then the death rate is 0.54% 3973/7000000 x100

If you work out the rate for the rest of the population under 65 then its 4319 - 3973 = 346

346/42000000 = 0.008%

From these figures you can then assume that if you are over 65 in Ireland you have a 0.54% chance of dying from covid 19 and if you are under 65 you have a 0.008% chance of dying from covid 19

We are keeping a country locked down based on figures that are so low in the general working aged population to be almost insignificant.

Hellrazer wrote: »

No need to be so condescending - Ive been very civil with you in this discussion and Id appreciate the same.

Regardless whether its a cumulative measure or not the 0.5% will more than likely stay at that rate.Unless with come across a variant that kills 10% of the population and then we`re rightly ****ed.


Id say the death rate will probably drop off and hit a peak of around 4700- 4800 total deaths with still the 92% of over 65s dying from it keeping us around that 0.5-0.6% death rate.

See theres 2 separate ways you can calculate death rate - either by deaths in confirmed case or deaths per population.

Deaths by confirmed cases is really not a good indicator because you can have no symptoms.

So I think we`ll have to agree to disagree as we`re getting nowhere.

I was following your lead.

timmyntc

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Remember when this was a conspiracy theory?

It says that it can also show proof of negative test in lieu of vaccination.

So you could just refuse to get vaccinated and get tested instead prior to travel.

peterc1991

Quantum Baloney wrote: »

One thing is for sure there are some absolute babes at these protests. Granted it is mostly men, but you can see in the videos some very fine looking young women marching too. I saw the same thing with my own eyes at a protest in Cork before Christmas. Maybe independently minded women tend to have better genetics.

This is your second post like this you weirdo. "babes"

See good looking woman in a video... Notice they are goodlooking

Dont see good looking woman who stay at home... notice all woman who stay at home arnt goodlooking

So people who do these protested have better genetics. LOL

Great sense that makes.

Hellrazer

Deleted User wrote: »

I was following your lead.

Fair enough I apologize. Didnt realize it cam across like that.

LuckyLloyd

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1366352250302513156?s=20

I can't see the Irish government keeping a travel ban on within the EU this year, maybe further afield yes, but not EU, EEA or UK.

Good news - how I always thought it would work. This is all part of the clean exit strategy.

bluelamp

francogarbanzo wrote: »

There were all types of people there, including "conspiracy wackos", scumbags with fireworks, and regular joes who are fed up with the governments response to the pandemic.

A growing issue now is that the most vocal viewpoints are on the extremes of either side of the argument. I guess it makes for good TV etc.

ISAG / Tomas Ryan / McConkey etc give the impression that lockdown supporters are all unrealistic zero covid fanatics.

People who are in anyway disagreeing with the severity of restrictions are now lumped in with the troublemakers in town.

I'm pro vaccine, pro masks etc - but very much of the opinion that our current restrictions are way over the top and a level of personal risk must be accepted.

As always the majority fit somewhere in the middle - these extremes on both sides undermine us all.

Klonker

Deleted User wrote: »

No. If you're over 65 you have a 0.54% chance of having died with Covid 19, which is a different proposition that doesn't account for future infections.

It's disingenuous to say that the current death rate across the whole demographic applies.

It's also disingenuous to ignore the "with not from" issue and assume an 11+% IFR going forward, given the likely levels of asymptomatic/undetected infection in the demographic and the improvements in treatment since the early days.

Yes, this is it. As of now if you're over 65 you're just as likely die of covid here as if you were in Sweden. That's the comparison.

It's not comparing how likely to catch covid, how likely to test positive for covid, how likely to die of covid if catch it. Its also not a measure of how likely to die of covid in future.

OwenM

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1366352250302513156?s=20

I can't see the Irish government keeping a travel ban on within the EU this year, maybe further afield yes, but not EU, EEA or UK.

This is where a high court action to test the validity of public health measures limiting the right to travel would succeed once the rest of Europe have opened up. Spain & Italy have large parts of the economy founded on tourism and they are not going to keep that shut this summer IMO.

speckle

Tokyo you may not have seen clip..
It was in one of the very first videos posted here if I remember correctly after the gardai baton charge the protestors after the group of 3 people aim and fire the firework.. center of street guard dress in full black riot gear raises black pistol like object...

JRant

speckle wrote: »

It was in one of the very first videos posted here if I remember correctly after the gardai baton charge the protestors after the group of 3 people aim and fire the firework.. center of street gaurd dress in full black riot gear raises black pistol like object and fires..

To me it looked like the firework initially aimed at the Garda was still going off after the garda charged in.

Sobit1964

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1366352250302513156?s=20

I can't see the Irish government keeping a travel ban on within the EU this year, maybe further afield yes, but not EU, EEA or UK.

This was a conspiracy theory a few weeks ago.

This idiotic authoritarian would do better making sure that everyone who wants a vaccine can get one - crazy amounts of discrimination will happen to the youngest who will once again be shouldering the punishment for something that doesn't even effect them.

Thornysheep

Sobit1964 wrote: »

This was a conspiracy theory a few weeks ago.

This idiotic authoritarian would do better making sure that everyone who wants a vaccine can get one - crazy amounts of discrimination will happen to the youngest who will once again be shouldering the punishment for something that doesn't even effect them.

Grey-haired people making decisions that favour grey-haired people. What's new?

speckle

JRant wrote: »

To me it looked like the firework initially aimed at the Garda was still going off after the garda charged in.

nah...maybe that happened aswell but the garda can be clearly seen raising a device asweell .. I will go hunt the video and time stamp it.

hynesie08

speckle wrote: »

nah...maybe that happened aswell but the garda can be clearly seen raising a device asweell .. I will go hunt the video and time stamp it.

Yes, a baton, as is traditional in a baton charge....

hynesie08

speckle wrote: »

nah...maybe that happened aswell but the garda can be clearly seen raising a device asweell .. I will go hunt the video and time stamp it.

https://twitter.com/padraig_reilly/status/1365682810292477960?s=20

24 seconds, the garda kicks the firework on the ground, it goes off.....

Lundstram

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good news - how I always thought it would work. This is all part of the clean exit strategy.

That’s the problem we don’t have an exit strategy.

“Sure we’ll see what happens” is the stock response from a government terrified of committing to dates.

We have by some distance the longest shut down of businesses in the world and also we have more types of businesses closed that any other country in the world.

Clean exit strategy my arse.

Gael23

Going me a small bit of hope for a holiday around September

Theboinkmaster

Gael23 wrote: »

Going me a small bit of hope for a holiday around September

I'd say anyone who wants to go on holiday from June onwards will be able to (to non-risk countries like Italy, Spain etc.)

Chivito550

Could somebody provide links to all these leaked emails from ISAG and Tomas Ryan? I saw them on boards a few days ago but it would take me all day to find them.

I want to alert my local politicians on this.

Many thanks

Gael23

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I'd say anyone who wants to go on holiday from June onwards will be able to (to non-risk countries like Italy, Spain etc.)

Depends on the quarantine when you get back I guess

Hellrazer

Gael23 wrote: »

Depends on the quarantine when you get back I guess

Do you think they`ll quarantine people who have been vaccinated?

I really couldnt see them doing that.

frank8211

Gael23 wrote: »

Depends on the quarantine when you get back I guess

Or when you arrive in these countries.... and they change at the drop of a hat so dont book much in advance

Theboinkmaster

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I'd say anyone who wants to go on holiday from June onwards will be able to (to non-risk countries like Italy, Spain etc.)

I've booked Rome for July, so I hope so!

Gael23

frank8211 wrote: »

Or when you arrive in these countries.... and they change at the drop of a hat so dont book much in advance

That’s a good point, no will be fairly last minute if I go

Vital Transformation

Chivito550 wrote: »

Could somebody provide links to all these leaked emails from ISAG and Tomas Ryan? I saw them on boards a few days ago but it would take me all day to find them.

I want to alert my local politicians on this.

Many thanks

https://gript.ie/revealed-how-zero-covid-activists-deceived-politicians/

Hector Savage

timmyntc wrote: »

It says that it can also show proof of negative test in lieu of vaccination.

So you could just refuse to get vaccinated and get tested instead prior to travel.

My worry is that we will be tested regardless even if we are vaccinated, and that adds a lot to the price of travel when we are talking about families.

Also, even if it were free, what happens if one tests + ?
Thats the end of the holiday, f*ck that people won't be arsed...

hatrickpatrick

Chivito550 wrote: »

Could somebody provide links to all these leaked emails from ISAG and Tomas Ryan? I saw them on boards a few days ago but it would take me all day to find them.

I want to alert my local politicians on this.

Many thanks

They were published in several articles, but for some reason the first three articles have been edited and now only show thumbnails of the original emails - possibly a Wordpress glitch, or whatever platform the site uses. So I've linked to each article, with the original emails linked alongside:

Article #1: Behind the Scenes of the Zero Covid Campaign

https://gript.ie/uncertainty-and-doubt-behind-the-scenes-of-the-zero-covid-campaign/

Image: https://gript.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ASTaines.jpg

Article #2: "Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety, and uncertainty" - Zero Covid Document

https://gript.ie/look-for-ways-to-increase-insecurity-anxiety-and-uncertainty-zero-covid-document/

Images:

https://gript.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ISAG-01-02.png
https://gript.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ASTaines.jpg

Article #3: ZeroLeaks: How Zero Covid’s “Science” isn’t science at all.

https://gript.ie/zeroleaks-how-zero-covids-science-isnt-science-at-all/

The final two articles (so far) are the most damning in my view, as they show a very cosy relationship between media and ISAG, and go some way to explain the surrealist antics on display on Claire Byrne's show in particular over the last number of months:

Article #4: REVEALED: How Zero Covid activists deceived politicians

https://gript.ie/revealed-how-zero-covid-activists-deceived-politicians/

Article #5: Zeroleaks on their media friends: “Matt Cooper tries to look impartial”

https://gript.ie/zeroleaks-on-their-media-friends-matt-cooper-tries-to-look-impartial/

Maybe this is just me having grown up in a family of journalists with parents who both worked for RTE for most of their careers, but the last article in particular really made me rage. Is this really what Irish journalism has come to - disguising content authored by lobby groups as organic and selling it to the general public while pretending to be impartial? F*ck that. Assuming these leaks are legitimate, somebody has to answer for this.

EDIT:

In particular, it is notable that the group were told to constantly re-iterate that they “had a plan” to get the country open by Saint Patrick’s Day. Our previous reporting shows that this message was at variance with their internal scientific deliberations, which made it quite clear that they viewed the St. Patrick’s Day deadline as unrealistic.

ISAG were also able to dictate terms to RTE: Gript can reveal that a segment about how to have a “Safe Christmas Dinner”, which appeared on Claire Byrne’s TV show in early December, was in fact, an ISAG idea, and was pitched to RTE by ISAG’s Sam McConkey last November. RTE has never disclosed that it was taking advice about what segments to air from ISAG.

Indeed, Claire Byrne features prominently in praise for the media dispensed in the ISAG chats, along with other RTE presenters. The group has had regular access to the national broadcaster’s airwaves, and has rarely faced tough questioning. Indeed, in the aftermath of Gript’s stories about ISAG this week, representatives of the group were once again on RTE and Virgin Media, where Matt Cooper and his RTE colleagues neglected to ask them any questions about the content of our stories.

How anyone can read the above and not be genuinely disturbed and angered is very much beyond me.

Chivito550

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

They were published in several articles, but for some reason the first three articles have been edited and now only show thumbnails of the original emails - possibly a Wordpress glitch, or whatever platform the site uses. So I've linked to each article, with the original emails linked alongside:

Article #1: Behind the Scenes of the Zero Covid Campaign

https://gript.ie/uncertainty-and-doubt-behind-the-scenes-of-the-zero-covid-campaign/

Image: https://gript.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ASTaines.jpg

Article #2: "Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety, and uncertainty" - Zero Covid Document

https://gript.ie/look-for-ways-to-increase-insecurity-anxiety-and-uncertainty-zero-covid-document/

Images:

https://gript.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ISAG-01-02.png
https://gript.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ASTaines.jpg

Article #3: ZeroLeaks: How Zero Covid’s “Science” isn’t science at all.

https://gript.ie/zeroleaks-how-zero-covids-science-isnt-science-at-all/

The final two articles (so far) are the most damning in my view, as they show a very cosy relationship between media and ISAG, and go some way to explain the surrealist antics on display on Claire Byrne's show in particular over the last number of months:

Article #4: REVEALED: How Zero Covid activists deceived politicians

https://gript.ie/revealed-how-zero-covid-activists-deceived-politicians/

Article #5: Zeroleaks on their media friends: “Matt Cooper tries to look impartial”

https://gript.ie/zeroleaks-on-their-media-friends-matt-cooper-tries-to-look-impartial/

Maybe this is just me having grown up in a family of journalists with parents who both worked for RTE for most of their careers, but the last article in particular really made me rage. Is this really what Irish journalism has come to - disguising content authored by lobby groups as organic and selling it to the general public while pretending to be impartial? F*ck that. Assuming these leaks are legitimate, somebody has to answer for this.

EDIT:

In particular, it is notable that the group were told to constantly re-iterate that they “had a plan” to get the country open by Saint Patrick’s Day. Our previous reporting shows that this message was at variance with their internal scientific deliberations, which made it quite clear that they viewed the St. Patrick’s Day deadline as unrealistic.

ISAG were also able to dictate terms to RTE: Gript can reveal that a segment about how to have a “Safe Christmas Dinner”, which appeared on Claire Byrne’s TV show in early December, was in fact, an ISAG idea, and was pitched to RTE by ISAG’s Sam McConkey last November. RTE has never disclosed that it was taking advice about what segments to air from ISAG.

Indeed, Claire Byrne features prominently in praise for the media dispensed in the ISAG chats, along with other RTE presenters. The group has had regular access to the national broadcaster’s airwaves, and has rarely faced tough questioning. Indeed, in the aftermath of Gript’s stories about ISAG this week, representatives of the group were once again on RTE and Virgin Media, where Matt Cooper and his RTE colleagues neglected to ask them any questions about the content of our stories.

How anyone can read the above and not be genuinely disturbed and angered is very much beyond me.

Many thanks.

Unfortunately the fact its Gript breaking these stories will just result in people not taking these stories seriously.

hatrickpatrick

Chivito550 wrote: »

Many thanks.

Unfortunately the fact its Gript breaking these stories will just result in people not taking these stories seriously.

Absolutely. It's very very sad that the horribly polarised nature of partisan politics has engulfed the media to the same extent, in which it's literally all-or-nothing with every issue.

There are plenty of media organisations that I have serious, serious issues with, but a scoop is still a scoop. The Guardian massively pissed me off in the early 2010s by fuelling the fledging culture war in its infancy, and along with Buzzfeed and the Huffington Post, elevating it from the kind of sh!te which was talked about on moronic corners of the internet into the mainstream of society. That doesn't mean I ignored the Edward Snowden scoop just because the documents were given to a Guardian journalist and published initially on their website. Hell, I've always despised Fox News for obvious reasons, but on election night in 2016 they were the only channel which wasn't in denial about the unexpected result for the entire night. It took the other big US news channels so long to admit that the tide had unexpectedly turned, and finally to call the election, that it was almost comical - and that's really, really not good for the idea of the public having an unbalanced viewpoint.

Similarly, at home, the Irish Times and Indo have repeatedly pissed me off in recent years with their barely-disguised political bias, but if one of them breaks a story about a new scandal, you can bet your ass I'm going to read it and engage with it as a political activist and voter.

It's very sad that the polarisation of the internet into left and right spaces (Facebook vs Parler, Twitter vs Gab, Reddit vs Voat etc) now extends fully into journalism itself, such that a story broken by a source commonly contributed to by one side of the left/right cultural divide will be dismissed out of hand by people on the other side of it.

It's a genuine shame. I long for the day when somebody creates a media platform which hosts opinion pieces from people all the way along the spectrum from far left to far right and everything in between, on the same platform, and sharing the same publication title. Something neither side could sidestep the content of a story published by, because they wouldn't be able to say "this site only published right/left wing crap (delete as appropriate) so I'm going to assume this story is a lie".

Discussion for another thread, for sure. This particular story needs to be seen far and wide as far as I'm concerned. Yes, it may be false or misleading as others have stated, but at least for me personally, it lines up so well with so many questions I've had about RTE's bizarre conduct since the middle of last summer that I'm inclined to lean towards believing it until anyone actively refutes it.