Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Micky 32

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The general public won't accept it once those actually at significant risk have been vaccinated.

Exactly. Lets say come end of the year and everyone you know is vaccinated and the vaccines yield their expected results what’s the likelihood you’ll SD from them?

Multipass

Multipass wrote: »

I just read that article and feel like walking under a bus.

Those doom-mongering scientists always talk about cases and variants.

The reality is that there will always be cases and variants; it's an unavoidable inevitability.

But what matters - both politically and socially - is the impact on hospitalizations and mortality. Once those metrics start precipitously falling, to the point where we have an acceptable risk of transmission in society, society will remain open as much as possible. It wouldn't matter if there were 2,000 cases a day because, in the end, what we are trying to do is not suppress cases but rather prevent the health system from becoming overwhelmed with cases. But vaccine administration will prevent that from happening.

Moreover, existing vaccines already show efficacy against variants.

And even more pertinent, novel vaccines can be rapidly tweaked to account for all possible variants (because existing variants are showing common mutations, meaning that there is a limit to the number of mutations possible, and an effective future vaccine can account for this limited number). Logistics is the only problem, hence why manufacturers and governments should put together the facilities needed to account for this outcome.

So there are many reasons to be optimistic.

By June, if Martin reaches his target of 85pc of adults vaccinated, things will become normal. In May, international travel among Europe will be even more common, as it was last year but moreso due to vaccinations - but Ireland will probably lag behind the rest of Europe by six months.

Housefree

average_runner wrote: »

Also going by all the posts I seen, there is not much support for the protests.

500 is tiny, I have more followers on Twitter ����

Doubtful any of your 500 followers would turn up somewhere in real life for your cause

py2006

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's highly unlikely there will be a Covid variant that the vaccine is useless against but that doesn't stop the government banging on about it.

I hope you are right.

kittensmittens

retro:electro wrote: »

Lads I’m actually so pissed off that that protest went the way it did. It’s so easy now for government to dismiss it as a few troublemakers and not address the underlying reason for it in the first place. Hopefully there will be more in the future that don’t go tits up

I've been reading the response about the protest since yesterday before replying so here goes

I was there and I can assure the good posters of boards that I have never worn a tracksuit in my entire life. I am also literate(that picture of those tops/jacket is irksome) and a small business owner would you believe :eek::eek::eek:
And yet I was there.

Were there the some scumbags there? Absolutely. The same photos of the same people keep appearing in SM again and again and is being portrayed that they were the majority representation at the protest. They weren't.
Trouble makers will always do what trouble makers are bound to do and unfortunately they walked right into the hands of the powers that be with their scumbagery. But again, they were a serious minority. People don't want to hear this. Especially those people with their own agenda to continue with these, quite frankly, over the top, "best boy in the class" restrictions which are causing untold damage to the people of this country.

I think it makes it so much easier for the lockdown supporters to trot out the old adages "300 only there and all lifers on the dole" type rhetoric. Makes it easier for them to try to keep pounding away on their well banged drum.

But what must have a lot of them rattled is that if they really looked and really listened to the real people who were at the protest, is that the people have spoken. Finally!! Us, the docile, submissive "shure it wil be grand" Irish, have made a small breakthrough! I dont even remember us doing anything remotely similar about the last fiasco the elected officials put us through during the recession so something has finally changed.
I can't in good conscience give out about losing my ability to support my family, my right to work and earn a living, my inherent right to live a normal life after giving our elected officials a YEAR to come up with a plan and for them to let us down again and again and again, without doing SOMETHING!!

If there is another protest, I'll be there.

_Kaiser_

Housefree wrote: »

Doubtful any of your 500 followers would turn up somewhere in real life for your cause

More importantly, twitter followers is hardly representative of anything.

That's why the IT poll the other day was so important. Whatever you feel about the quality of their journalism, it legitimised the point that most people already know - enough is enough. It was easier to deny and ignore when it was on twitter or even here, but in the foremost national paper? Not so much.

Hence why FF have started to turn on Martin. They can see the way the wind is blowing too.

JRant

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

500 people turning up at a protest doesn’t add or take away from anything. People have clearly had their limit because they are human and this has been going on to various degrees for a year. And yet the majority of people are doing their best to stick to what has to be done as a collective. A tiny number of people turning up to an event organised by anti abortion / anti gay equality / anti immigrant / (and recently) anti lockdown scumbags aren’t helping get us out of this. Attacking Gards doesn’t help us get out of this.

The vaccines are here. The data on their efficacy is really good. In a couple of months we’ll have broken the back of this due to the vaccination programme and keeping community transmission suppressed. Restrictions are only in place because we never want to reimpose any restriction again once lifted. It truly is the time to #HoldFirm.

I heard they were all anti puppies and kittens as well. Best to add that to the shopping list.

Another "we can't leave lockdown incase we have to lockdown" proponent. About the only thing holding firm is the circular logic.

hatrickpatrick

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

All the evdience at the moment suggest vaccines are working, if in the long run this is not the case then we will have to face and make difficult decisions, why obsess about that now?

gozunda wrote: »

Wtf is saying "Social distancing and no mass gatherings for years or decades"?

We are vaccinating - though even when everyone is vaccinated lets say in August or September for arguments sake - the difference is that with huge numbers of people vaccinated we will be better able to manage the viruses in the future

I would generally recommend a little bit of basic cop on in most of these type of scenarios tbh ...

Right on cue this morning:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0227/1199793-life-after-vaccines/

Coillte_Bhoy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I often wonder why any poster would take the time to post in such banal snipes.

It’s all some do

Can you not ignore the post without immature attacks?

You're right, it was petty and mean spirited of me

I honestly wonder how many people support lockdowns and restrictions mainly due to perceived benefit to themselves. For example, a preference for working from home and not wanting to return to the office, or those happy to sit on the e350 PUP etc etc.

I sincerely hope it's not many. It's a losing mindset.

kittensmittens

Boggles wrote: »

Vaccines will kill you and lizard people are stealing babies is basically what I heard from the "protest".

Then the scum started attacking people.

Spoken indeed.

Rattled, no.

Thanks Boggles...consider me told

landofthetree

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's highly unlikely there will be a Covid variant that the vaccine is useless against but that doesn't stop the government banging on about it.

It's also highly unlikely vaccines will work in the real world as they have in trials.

All the trials happened under mask wearing and social distancing.

Effectiveness could drop like a stone if we go back to normal.

_Kaiser_

landofthetree wrote: »

It's also highly unlikely vaccines will work in the real world as they have in trials.

All the trials happened under mask wearing and social distancing.

Effectiveness could drop like a stone if we go back to normal.

You don't think that was factored in?

JRant

landofthetree wrote: »

It's also highly unlikely vaccines will work in the real world as they have in trials.

All the trials happened under mask wearing and social distancing.

Effectiveness could drop like a stone if we go back to normal.

Well seeing as masks and SD did the square root of fook all to prevent lockdowns and massive spikes in cases it's a moot point.

Look at the data coming in from other countries, it's incredibly positive.

py2006

JRant wrote: »

Well seeing as masks and SD did the square root of fook all to prevent lockdowns and massive spikes in cases it's a moot point.

Look at the data coming in from other countries, it's incredibly positive.

Those that adhered to wearing masks, social distancing etc are less likely to get/spread the virus. Those that didn't care spread it/got it far more easily.

starlit

It was ridiculous what happened yesterday what had they to gain from it? It could spur on a further lockdown if they had any sense they have stayed at home, anyone that thinks otherwise they have no idea how bad things could get.

The vaccine will reduce the level of covid and give some form of herd immunity it won't get rid of it unless it extinct itself like the last sars. It's likely it just mutate like the spanish flu eventually into a normal seasonal flu we just have to have a top up vaccine on a regular basis to keep us protected. Mask wearing and distancing will be around for a long time yet.

Most people who are getting virus have let their guard down somewhere along the line even if they were compliant or not to the regulations of mask wearing, distancing, and sanitizing etc.

JRant

py2006 wrote: »

Those that adhered to wearing masks, social distancing etc are less likely to get/spread the virus. Those that didn't care spread it/got it far more easily.

Where are all these non masked, non SD establishments? It's been a legal requirement to where masks for a while now.

py2006

JRant wrote: »

Where are all these non masked, non SD establishments? It's been a legal requirement to where masks for a while now.

Not sure about establishments but there are plenty of people not adhering to the requirements. BTW I am talking worldwide.

starlit

It's those that have the virus but not know they have it increases the risk of spreading it more so distancing and mask wearing is very important.

Double mask and wear a shield in crowded shops would be my advise and wash hands/wash masks that can be washed often! Limit contacts just follow HSE/Nephet guidelines there isn't much more you can do.

People are becoming complacent but the end of lockdowns aren't too far off with vaccine roll out we just have to be positive and hopeful. Its likely the virus occur more in the winter than other times of the year.

starlit

starlit wrote: »

It was ridiculous what happened yesterday what had they to gain from it? It could spur on a further lockdown if they had any sense they have stayed at home, anyone that thinks otherwise they have no idea how bad things could get.

Majority of people were there to voice their opposition to continued lockdowns and restrictions, without a clear/defined end in sight. A lot of this falls on bad communication from the government.

Any protest will always attract a few scumbags and anarchists just looking to cause trouble. In this case, they stole the headlines, and succeeded in tarnishing most people's opinion of the entire protest. Media play a part in that as well.

landofthetree

starlit wrote: »

It's those that have the virus but not know they have it increases the risk of spreading it more so distancing and mask wearing is very important.

Double mask and wear a shield in crowded shops would be my advise and wash hands/wash masks that can be washed often! Limit contacts just follow HSE/Nephet guidelines there isn't much more you can do.

People are becoming complacent but the end of lockdowns aren't too far off with vaccine roll out we just have to be positive and hopeful. Its likely the virus occur more in the winter than other times of the year.

Best be safe and wear 10 masks and lockdown till 2028

gozunda

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Right on cue this morning:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0227/1199793-life-after-vaccines/

I'd strongly suggest you actually read the article

Again who the fek is saying "Social distancing and no mass gatherings for years or decades"?

I intensely dislike RTEs style of reporting. However even they do NOT mention "Social distancing and no mass gatherings for years or decades"

What is detailed in that article which quotes various experts and vaguely seems to refer to various types of restrictions over the next twelve months

"I think in the short to medium term all of these transmission interventions are likely to still be with us."

"Local lockdowns, she says, are still going to be a feature of our lives for some time to come."

"I know it sounds bad, but having a really strict lockdown for two or three days is actually a good way to stop the virus spreading because it is so infectious."

"restrictions on international travel are necessary for at least the next year"

LuckyLloyd

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This reads like a Government/HSE press release, complete with idiotic hashtag at the end to be 'down with de kids' :rolleyes:

What seeps through from the above post and some others above is an increasing desperation to discredit the idea that people have had enough and are starting to push back on the situation. The fact that there were some antisocial scum at the protest yesterday doesn't take away from that reality.

The thing that I STILL cannot understand is what people like yourself are getting out of the situation. Is it a deference to authority without question thing, is it that ye are pocketing a fortune by WFH for the last year, is it that - despite the empirical evidence of the last 12 months in this country - you really believe that there is a virus out there that is deadly to the majority of our population? Is it just that you're so entrenched at this stage that you can't see the reality? Or is it just the age old Irish curtain twitching - envying or begrudging what your neighbours are at, or complaining because not everyone feels the way you do?

I'm not being funny. I really don't understand it. How long do you think that a society and country can be run on the basis of the potential risk to a tiny minority of people, or how long do you think that the majority will continue to put up with the situation? How much is enough?

The reaction from people like yourself is almost as though you never moved beyond the fear that existed this time last year when we knew very little about this virus or who was at risk. All we saw was pictures of death in Italy and China and social media panic.... But 12 months on, the truth is that most of those fears were unfounded (thankfully), and in Ireland we've seen less than 5000 deaths - most of whom were already very elderly and had existing underlying issues.

Every death is a sad loss for those who loved them, but death is inevitable and will continue to happen regardless of hysteria over numbers and lockdowns and social media crusading.

So, what are you so concerned about? Leave aside the soundbites and regurgitating of the narrative. What are YOU personally so concerned about that you feel continuing to restrict 4.9 million people is justified?

The ability on this thread to ignore the pressure on our health system and spike in rates of death and serious illness within the last two months following our decision to reduce restrictions in December is amazing.

I particularly love the presentation of the simple facts of the matter as a “narrative”. Open up, cases rise, more severe illness requiring dramatic medical support and more deaths. More cases of debilitating long covid. More impact to society. It makes no sense to *me* to allow that to happen when we have vaccines on hand and a route to a clean exit from this later in the year.

We’ve had a low level of deaths BECAUSE of the continued restrictions. The cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring that reality - particularly in the context of what just occurred after Christmas - is beyond stunning!

Leftwaffe

starlit wrote: »

It's those that have the virus but not know they have it increases the risk of spreading it more so distancing and mask wearing is very important.

Double mask and wear a shield in crowded shops would be my advise and wash hands/wash masks that can be washed often! Limit contacts just follow HSE/Nephet guidelines there isn't much more you can do.

People are becoming complacent but the end of lockdowns aren't too far off with vaccine roll out we just have to be positive and hopeful. Its likely the virus occur more in the winter than other times of the year.

You sound like the kind of person who’ll be wearing a mask and visor for the rest of your life. I really hope you can return to normal some day. I know I’ll be getting on with my normal life very soon. Not this new normal b*llox. Old normal.

TheDoctor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The ability on this thread to ignore the pressure on our health system and spike in rates of death and serious illness within the last two months following our decision to reduce restrictions in December is amazing.

I particularly love the presentation of the simple facts of the matter as a “narrative”. Open up, cases rise, more severe illness requiring dramatic medical support and more deaths. More cases of debilitating long covid. More impact to society. It makes no sense to *me* to allow that to happen when we have vaccines on hand and a route to a clean exit from this later in the year.

We’ve had a low level of deaths BECAUSE of the continued restrictions. The cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring that reality - particularly in the context of what just occurred after Christmas - is beyond stunning!

We had a winter surge, same as every year.

Nothing special about winter 2020/21.

Health service woefully under staffed/supplied as with every year.

joseywhales

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nobody is refuting that. But if it turns out to be impossible to counter the virus with vaccination, then we have to start talking about alternative exit strategies. “Social distancing and no mass gatherings for years or decades” is not an acceptable or palatable solution for the vast majority of people, so if we can’t vaccine against it then what else could we consider doing?

For me the overriding strategy is clear. We have a moving target , we have a weapon that works but probably only for a some unknown period. So we mitigate it as much as possible until we can vaccinate to herd immunity. It seems that that is what the irish government is doing and it seems correct. Chances are that it will mutate a few more times in high population regions and one or more variants may require a new version of vaccine but before that happens we can gain a huge advantage if we get control of current variants before we have to do this again, it could take multiple cycles, we now have a chance to get an advantage over the disease, not kill it completely.

Leftwaffe

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The ability on this thread to ignore the pressure on our health system and spike in rates of death and serious illness within the last two months following our decision to reduce restrictions in December is amazing.

I particularly love the presentation of the simple facts of the matter as a “narrative”. Open up, cases rise, more severe illness requiring dramatic medical support and more deaths. More cases of debilitating long covid. More impact to society. It makes no sense to *me* to allow that to happen when we have vaccines on hand and a route to a clean exit from this later in the year.

We’ve had a low level of deaths BECAUSE of the continued restrictions. The cognitive dissonance involved in ignoring that reality - particularly in the context of what just occurred after Christmas - is beyond stunning!

Vaccinate all adults and vulnerable and open up the country.

Stop announcing daily case numbers.

Expand the health system that has been neglected for many years.

Disband NPHET and cancel the regular briefings which have made them celebrities.

Show the people proper leadership.

Except that ultimately there will still be deaths that occur from this virus. Illness and death is a part of life.

Start living our lives we will be dead long enough.

LuckyLloyd

joseywhales wrote: »

For me the overriding strategy is clear. We have a moving target , we have a weapon that works but probably only for a some unknown period. So we mitigate it as much as possible until we can vaccinate to herd immunity. It seems that that is what the irish government is doing and it seems correct. Chances are that it will mutate a few more times in high population regions and one or more variants may require a new version of vaccine but before that happens we can gain a huge advantage if we get control of current variants before we have to do this again, it could take multiple cycles, we now have a chance to get an advantage over the disease, not kill it completely.

This is a positive view, and a correct one. We’ll likely all be offered at least one more vaccine after our initial vaccination this year. But getting through that first round and suppressing community transmission in parallel to its completion is essential to moving on from covid and its associated impacts for good.

gozunda

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's highly unlikely there will be a Covid variant that the vaccine is useless against but that doesn't stop the government banging on about it.

Certainly some of the media and the agitators at least have that in common - nothing like over egging the potential issue tbf.

Of course variants are being discussed - and its not just Ireland.

EU leaders have been told two of the new variants of Covid 19 – the Brazilian and South African strains – may be vaccine resistant. It is understood the UK variant can be dealt with by the vaccines.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/were-working-on-that-right-now-taoiseach-commits-to-five-times-more-tests-on-the-genetic-make-up-of-new-covid-strains-39998313.html

Can you imagine the screaming and roaring from the conspiracy lot if variants weren't being discussed by our government or the EU?

Vaccines most certainly won't be useless against other covid strains - that's not to say it remains that until we get the majority of people vaccinated - a small number of variants don't remain a potential threat. .

We are still dealing with the ****efest following the spread of the UK variant here over Christmas. Approx 90% of new Covid infections in Ireland are from this variant and which is believed to have a higher rate of transmissibility and is at least partially responsible for keeping up the number of new cases here

LuckyLloyd

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Vaccinate all adults and elderly and open up the country.

Stop announcing daily case numbers.

Expand the health system that has been neglected for many years.

Disband NPHET and cancel the regular briefings which have made them celebrities.

Show the people proper leadership.

Except that ultimately there will still be deaths that occur from this virus. Illness and death is a part of life.

Start living our lives we will be dead long enough.

“Vaccinate all adults”

Agreed. That’s what the government are doing. The rest flows from there.