Sinn Fein cancels bomber commemoration

Tokyo · 25-02-2021 12:25pm

Mod:

General heads up - I appreciate it's an emotive topic, but the personalized retorts, hyperbolic responses and straw man arguments about condoning terrorism do nothing to keep an interesting debate going. I don't particularly want to action posts, but if these continue, I'll have no choice, for the sake of the thread.

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 12:33pm

jm08 wrote: »

Question 1 (a simple yes or no will suffice):

Do you find it acceptable for someone to set off a bomb in a public place?
No.

Question 2 (another yes / no question):

Do you find it acceptable for that same someone to set off a bomb in a public place, if they warn the authorities about it first?
Not when the authorities deliberately ignore the warnings and fail to evacuate people.

Question 3 (more of a free form answer this time around:

Do you think it's acceptable for the person in question 2 to turn around and say "well, I warned the authorities, so if anyone gets killed by my bomb then that's their fault for not acting on the warning and not my fault for setting off the bomb in the first place"?
It takes two to tango on this one. Fault/blame lies with both equally.

I can't believe the answer to question two.

There were ten times as many fake warnings as real warnings, as the PIRA regularly used fake warnings to cause disruption. It is completely disingenuous to attempt to absolve them of blame just because they gave a warning.

Terrorists are responsible for their terrorism.

Bubbaclaus · 25-02-2021 12:56pm

jm08 wrote: »

The bombing in Manchester sparked the beginning of a complete regeneration of the city.

This is possibly the most optimistic way of looking at a bombing I've ever seen.

maccored · 25-02-2021 12:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You may not have said it out straight, but that is 100%the impression you're giving. You've spent this entire thread basically saying "but what about the Brits!" whenever anyone says anything derogatory about the IRA. This is exactly what I mean about people dancing around topics and refusing to show their true colours. Plausible deniability. "I never said he should be commemorated, I just said that what he did is no worse than what happens everywhere there's conflict, implying support for his actions"

Do you think this commemoration should have went ahead, and why / why not?

Forget about wars and British army and who did what. Does this guy deserve to be treated like a hero?

Oh right - so i didnt say it now.

This really IS a waste of time then

jm08 · 25-02-2021 2:31pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I can't believe the answer to question two.

There were ten times as many fake warnings as real warnings, as the PIRA regularly used fake warnings to cause disruption. It is completely disingenuous to attempt to absolve them of blame just because they gave a warning.

Terrorists are responsible for their terrorism.

No, the PIRA didn't give fake warngins. Some other paramilitaries might have done so, but it wasn't in the interests of the PIRA to give them for the

Manchester bombs:

At about 9:40 am, Granada Studios on Quay Street received a telephone call claiming that there was a bomb at the corner of Corporation Street and Cannon Street and that it would explode in one hour. The caller had an Irish accent and gave an IRA codeword so that police would know the threat was genuine.[1][26] Four other telephoned warnings were sent to television/radio stations, newspapers and a hospital

Five warnings. Similar with the Canary Wharf bombing - 5 warnings were given.

a very cool kid · 25-02-2021 2:32pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This is possibly the most optimistic way of looking at a bombing I've ever seen.

It's like the Provos did them a favour....

jm08 · 25-02-2021 2:34pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This is possibly the most optimistic way of looking at a bombing I've ever seen.

Not just me saying that. Manchester was a dump prior to that and now it is a great city. There is a book written about it. Called I think Detonation: The rebirth of a modern city (for something like that). Similar kind of things happened in bombed out Europe after the war. Great, modern cities were rebuilt.

wicklowstevo · 25-02-2021 3:09pm

jm08 wrote: »

Not just me saying that. Manchester was a dump prior to that and now it is a great city. There is a book written about it. Called I think Detonation: The rebirth of a modern city (for something like that). Similar kind of things happened in bombed out Europe after the war. Great, modern cities were rebuilt.

equating the provos with hitler now and then framing it as a positive thing ?

the mentality of these shinners is astonishing , amazing really , it almost bears study

grayzer75 · 25-02-2021 3:11pm

wicklowstevo wrote: »

equating the provos with hitler now and then framing it as a positive thing ?

the mentality of these shinners is astonishing , amazing really , it almost bears study

Most of the bombing in Europe was done be the allies not Hitler.

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 3:12pm

jm08 wrote: »

No, the PIRA didn't give fake warngins. Some other paramilitaries might have done so, but it wasn't in the interests of the PIRA to give them for the

Manchester bombs:

Five warnings. Similar with the Canary Wharf bombing - 5 warnings were given.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/police-examine-phone-box-as-ira-admits-bomb-hoax-1.60348

"A telephone caller to RTE, using a recognised codeword, said the IRA had made the hoax calls to postpone the event which was held instead on Monday."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Friday_(1972)

Then there were the hoax calls associated with Bloody Friday.

I previously linked to the Birmingham inquest conclusions which were severely critical of the hoax warnings by the PIRA. That's three examples of where the PIRA gave hoax warnings. Anyone like me who lived through the 70s and 80s would be familiar with the many other times the warnings were inadequate or hoaxes.

James Brown · 25-02-2021 3:14pm

grayzer75 wrote: »

Most of the bombing in Europe was done be the allies not Hitler.

Carpet bomb cities, towns, villages, get a knighthood for creating it and get medals and 'hero' status for carrying it out.

Kill yourself by accident with a bomb and your family gets hounded by goons for wanting to remember you.

FrancieBrady · 25-02-2021 3:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/police-examine-phone-box-as-ira-admits-bomb-hoax-1.60348

"A telephone caller to RTE, using a recognised codeword, said the IRA had made the hoax calls to postpone the event which was held instead on Monday."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Friday_(1972)

Then there were the hoax calls associated with Bloody Friday.

I previously linked to the Birmingham inquest conclusions which were severely critical of the hoax warnings by the PIRA. That's three examples of where the PIRA gave hoax warnings. Anyone like me who lived through the 70s and 80s would be familiar with the many other times the warnings were inadequate or hoaxes.

Are you familiar with the British police lying during those times too...inventing evidence etc?

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 3:18pm

wicklowstevo wrote: »

equating the provos with hitler now and then framing it as a positive thing ?

the mentality of these shinners is astonishing , amazing really , it almost bears study

To the Shinner, celebrating the death of a suicide bomber is a good thing when it is the lad who blew up the bus, but not a good thing if he flew into the Twin Towers.

They need to realise that it is the same mentality of evil that resulted in the two incidents.

grayzer75 · 25-02-2021 3:19pm

blanch152 wrote: »

To the Shinner, celebrating the death of a suicide bomber is a good thing when it is the lad who blew up the bus, but not a good thing if he flew into the Twin Towers.

They need to realise that it is the same mentality of evil that resulted in the two incidents.

He wasn't a suicide bomber, the target was a power station not a civilian bus so you can stop your fantasy posting about it.

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 3:27pm

grayzer75 wrote: »

He wasn't a suicide bomber, the target was a power station not a civilian bus so you can stop your fantasy posting about it.

We don't know that, that could well be another PIRA hoax.

wicklowstevo · 25-02-2021 3:29pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you familiar with the British police lying during those times too...inventing evidence etc?

aw the ira , I remember them well as a paragon of honestly and truthfulness

did they remember where they buried all them innocent people yet I wonder ?

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 3:30pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you familiar with the British police lying during those times too...inventing evidence etc?

Oh dear, the British police infiltrated RTE during the Troubles, I never knew.

grayzer75 · 25-02-2021 3:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

We don't know that, that could well be another PIRA hoax.

We do yeah, target was a power station not what's made up in your head.

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 3:33pm

grayzer75 wrote: »

We do yeah, target was a power station not what's made up in your head.

According to who, the fella who blew himself up?

FrancieBrady · 25-02-2021 3:39pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh dear, the British police infiltrated RTE during the Troubles, I never knew.

RTE, where operating on an anonymous call. Who else would know the 'recognised' code words blanch?

blanch152 · 25-02-2021 3:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RTE, where operating on an anonymous call. Who else would know the 'recognised' code words blanch?

So the admission of hoax warnings was true, then? The PIRA did issue hoax bomb warnings?

Oh, wait, the British police who you accuse of lying(not the British Army or the SAS) infiltrated the IRA, and/or made a call using a recognised code-word to RTE claiming falsely that the bomb warnings were a hoax.

Oh, what a tangled web.

But I am confused. Were the bomb warnings for the Grand National true or a hoax? And if they were a hoax, were they an IRA hoax or a British police hoax?

FrancieBrady · 25-02-2021 3:56pm

blanch152 wrote: »

So the admission of hoax warnings was true, then? The PIRA did issue hoax bomb warnings?

Oh, wait, the British police who you accuse of lying(not the British Army or the SAS) infiltrated the IRA, and/or made a call using a recognised code-word to RTE claiming falsely that the bomb warnings were a hoax.

Oh, what a tangled web.

But I am confused. Were the bomb warnings for the Grand National true or a hoax? And if they were a hoax, were they an IRA hoax or a British police hoax?

Are you saying the British police were not capable of dirty tactics?

I personally wouldn't believe any side during the period there was that much going on.

Pinch of salt when there is no way of checking. Don't swallow any sides claims in the wholesome way you do.

I don't know if they were hoax calls or not. Same as I don't know whether Gerry was in the 'RA or not. I most certainly am not taking claims at face value - the mistake you ALWAYS make if they suit your agenda and bias.

James Brown · 25-02-2021 4:06pm

blanch152 wrote: »

To the Shinner, celebrating the death of a suicide bomber is a good thing when it is the lad who blew up the bus, but not a good thing if he flew into the Twin Towers.

They need to realise that it is the same mentality of evil that resulted in the two incidents.

If the plan was to hijack the bus killing everyone on it as it crashed into a building, sure Blanch, why not....

jm08 · 25-02-2021 4:40pm

wicklowstevo wrote: »

equating the provos with hitler now and then framing it as a positive thing ?

the mentality of these shinners is astonishing , amazing really , it almost bears study

I didn't realise Hitler bombed Dresden.

wicklowstevo · 25-02-2021 4:47pm

jm08 wrote: »

I didn't realise Hitler bombed Dresden.

but he did bomb Manchester and many other places in uk .

that this event resulted in positive outcomes for the city is the point that was being laughably made

but im sure you understood that much at least didn't you

grayzer75 · 25-02-2021 5:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

According to who, the fella who blew himself up?

Yeah he said so himself afterwards :rolleyes:

"The bus was not the intended target, we believe," said Comdr. John Grieve of Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist branch.

jm08 · 25-02-2021 7:02pm

wicklowstevo wrote: »

but he did bomb Manchester and many other places in uk .

that this event resulted in positive outcomes for the city is the point that was being laughably made

but im sure you understood that much at least didn't you

Yes, he did, but none of the ''many other places'' got a facelift like the one Manchester got because of the bombing.

FYI, 25,000 people were killed in the Allied bombing of Dresden when the city was flattened.

And who was laughing .... its a point that has been made many times about Manchester as being the one prosperous city in the north of England.

jm08 · 25-02-2021 7:04pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh dear, the British police infiltrated RTE during the Troubles, I never knew.

No, worse than that. It was being run by Eoghan Harris.

markodaly · 26-02-2021 12:55am

https://twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA/status/1364833669442076675

Just a reminder what the Provos were actually like.
Whataboutery in 3..2..1...

Fuascailteoir · 26-02-2021 12:59am

markodaly wrote: »

https://twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA/status/1364833669442076675

Just a reminder what the Provos were actually like.
Whataboutery in 3..2..1...

You share the same twitter feed with arlene foster

Sinn Fein cancels bomber commemoration

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