Have you been fined and will you pay?

Allinall

timeToLive wrote: »

Power corrupts

Where's the corruption in this case?

I've only had pleasant interactions at checkpoints.

timeToLive

Allinall wrote: »

I've only had pleasant interactions at checkpoints.

Ok cool. lets reduce it to 4km sure.. why not? The interactions are pleasant!

Allinall

timeToLive wrote: »

Ok cool. lets reduce it to 4km sure.. why not? The interactions are pleasant!

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

elperello

Allinall wrote: »

Where's the corruption in this case?

I've only had pleasant interactions at checkpoints.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it corruption but it is an interesting case.

The photographer is clearly a professional photo journalist and as such is classed as an essential service.

He/she was able to produce id and proof of occupation.

I'd like to hear from the member of AGS but that's not going to happen.

So a citizen going about their lawful business is left expecting a fine.

Not a good result and a poor example of policing by consent.

I agree that most interactions with AGS are pleasant.

plodder

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Yes, it was the first thing that I show at ALL checkpoints, I pass at least 1 a day, he took the ID and walked around checking the tax/insurance/NCT (all in order) then he asked for my driving licence.

I told him I'm a photographer and he could see the laptop and two camera bodies and lenses on the passenger seat.

If he had any doubt about my bona fides he didn't mention it to me, i explained that I was sent to get pics of people in the snow.

I have been working in photojournalism for about 20yrs and this Garda has really bugged me because he simply didn't listen to me.

If he does follow through with the fine, it won't be paid and if necessary I will goto court (which is a waste of my time and the Garda ...and the court)

I'd say when he got back to the station and defrosted a bit, it'd be very surprising if he followed it up. It wouldn't look good at all if a case like that went to court.

The Continental Op

This amused me when I read it this moring.

Gardaí install checkpoints on non-essential airport travel in new operation

Going on holiday here have a €100 fine.

Cerveza

The Continental Op wrote: »

This amused me when I read it this moring.

Gardaí install checkpoints on non-essential airport travel in new operation

Going on holiday here have a €100 fine.

Eamonn Ryan making noise about it on the media this morning.

Purgative

Since the lockdown, I've had solo trips to town for: shopping, animal feed, prescriptions, recycling, take-aways. Waved through by the gards each time.

Once I took my wife for her physio - no problem to the gards. In my experience all the gards have been totally sound putting up with this shoite.

Tenzor07

Cerveza wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan making noise about it on the media this morning.

Was the noise... Snore Zzzz Snore Zzzz... that's about the only noise that organic cabbage makes..

Jim2007

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

If he had any doubt about my bona fides he didn't mention it to me, i explained that I was sent to get pics of people in the snow.

I have been working in photojournalism for about 20yrs and this Garda has really bugged me because he simply didn't listen to me.

If he does follow through with the fine, it won't be paid and if necessary I will goto court (which is a waste of my time and the Garda ...and the court)

You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.



So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

kennethsmyth

Jim2007 wrote: »

You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.



So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

Absolute bull, he’s a photo journalist, doesn’t matter what’s he photographing it’s none of the Gardas business. His work is considered essential end of. You essentially are promoting censorship. Yes I’m taking it to the maximum effect here on purpose but again garda does not decide what photos are essential or not only the occupation. Before you say the Garda thought the journey was non essential it doesn’t matter, photo journalism is considered essential, the subject is irrelevant, no body gets to decide if this photo is essential or not .

beauf

While I would debate the value of people playing in the snow.

The rules are clear, that reporting, media production, is an essential service. The Garda should know this.
I assume anyone working in this would have a letter and appropriate ID.

plodder

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Absolute bull, he’s a photo journalist, doesn’t matter what’s he photographing it’s none of the Gardas business. His work is considered essential end of. You essentially are promoting censorship. Yes I’m taking it to the maximum effect here on purpose but again garda does not decide what photos are essential or not only the occupation. Before you say the Garda thought the journey was non essential it doesn’t matter, photo journalism is considered essential, the subject is irrelevant, no body gets to decide if this photo is essential or not .

It hadn't occurred to that that might be what the garda was thinking. By the same token I suppose the newspapers could just print government press releases during a pandemic, or anything else that journalists can get their hands on without leaving home. Extreme example also maybe, but same principle.

weldoninhio

quokula wrote: »

You think everything is the government's fault for not closing the airports before anyone knew how serious it was, while you also think freely crossing the land border we have with one of the most infected countries on the planet has no impact?

Luckily we know how dangerous it is now, oh wait, the airport is still open.

Cerveza

Vax and go lads.

elperello

Jim2007 wrote: »

You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.



So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

Stock photos definitely have a place in print media but they are more commonly used to illustrate an article inside the paper.

No self respecting title would use a stock photo on the front page.

This link shows a picture that is on P1 of the Irish Times today.
https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4466745.1611514177!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_685/image.jpg

Two women in swimsuits in the snow at a bathing shelter on the Bull Wall.

This is the type of pic papers need to make their business viable, especially so during the current pandemic.

I am surprised at the reaction of the member of AGS. I'd like to know why he took issue with a professional doing his job which is listed as an essential service in the legislation.

Like you I'd be interested in the outcome of any court case.

Irishphotodesk

Jim2007 wrote: »

You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.

So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

Photojournalism is about reporting live events, not stock imagery.

Great to hear that your brother in law's business is doing well.

Chances are I have photographed the judge at his/her appointment - some of my work involves photographing judiciary and counsel appointments at the courts, if I do get a fine and it goes all the way to court, it's possible the judge may dismiss the matter or the Garda might apply for it to be dismissed, either way, I won't be paying a fine if issued.

Donald Trump

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Absolute bull, he’s a photo journalist, doesn’t matter what’s he photographing it’s none of the Gardas business. His work is considered essential end of. You essentially are promoting censorship. Yes I’m taking it to the maximum effect here on purpose but again garda does not decide what photos are essential or not only the occupation. Before you say the Garda thought the journey was non essential it doesn’t matter, photo journalism is considered essential, the subject is irrelevant, no body gets to decide if this photo is essential or not .

He never said he was even explicitly threatened with a fine. He just said the Guard took his ID and then walked around and checked his tax and insurance and NCT.


Journalists have to have those as well.


Perhaps the fella gave off a "How dare you stop me. Do you now know who I am and what I do" vibe? Maybe just annoyed after being stopped a good few times.

Donald Trump

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Photojournalism is about reporting live events, not stock imagery.

Great to hear that your brother in law's business is doing well.

Chances are I have photographed the judge at his/her appointment - some of my work involves photographing judiciary and counsel appointments at the courts, if I do get a fine and it goes all the way to court, it's possible the judge may dismiss the matter or the Garda might apply for it to be dismissed, either way, I won't be paying a fine if issued.

Did he say he was going to fine you?


Your post just seems to say he asked you questions, never expressed any doubt about your reason for travel and then just checked the rest of the car


Are you just annoyed that he stopped you? It's a pain in the arse alright being stopped all the time but maybe that came across to him as well that you felt he shouldn't be stopping you? So he reacted and decided to see if there was anything he could do you for?

Amirani

plodder wrote: »

Eh, I think the fact that recycling centres are open means it's reasonable to believe you are allowed to use them. Like anything else, only one person should be going there, which used to annoy me about going to the supermarket and seeing entire families out for the occasion, but in fairness, I haven't seen much of that lately.

There's no rule that only 1 person from a family can go to the supermarket.

Not everyone has someone to babysit their kids and not everyone is able to carry a full load of shopping on their own.

beauf

There's an argument for maintaining the mental well being of the population etc.
But thats irrelevant. The rule are already defined. The Garda should abide by it.

Good luck trying to correct a Garda who is wrong, on the roadside. They won't listen to any reason.

Irishphotodesk

Donald Trump wrote: »

He never said he was even explicitly threatened with a fine. He just said the Guard took his ID and then walked around and checked his tax and insurance and NCT.


Journalists have to have those as well.


Perhaps the fella gave off a "How dare you stop me. Do you now know who I am and what I do" vibe? Maybe just annoyed after being stopped a good few times.

Both of us were quite courteous and well mannered in the conversation, there was definitely no arrogance or entitlement on my behalf.

The Garda didn't threaten me, he said I would be getting a fine for being outside my 5km, I explained my role and he didn't want to hear any further, if he had any issue with my credentials as a photojournalist he didn't raise them with me.

As I mentioned earlier I pass at least 1 checkpoint a day and on this occasion I had been sent to Lusk (co. Dublin) and Dublin city centre so had passed through 3 checkpoints without a bother, and a further 3 checkpoints after this encounter, it's the first time I have had more than a where are you going/coming from , most of the time it's possible to have a little joke with the Garda saying I'm looking for checkpoints to photo and ask if he/she has seen any.

plodder

Amirani wrote: »

There's no rule that only 1 person from a family can go to the supermarket.

Not everyone has someone to babysit their kids and not everyone is able to carry a full load of shopping on their own.

Sure, there's no hard rule and if asked they would be reasonable excuses.

elperello

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

I'm told I will get a fine by a member who decided I shouldn't be more than 5km from my home, I was working for a national newspaper on shift and out doing my job,

I was respectful at all times to the Garda and he was with me, I explained to him that I was a photographer on shift and the job was to find people enjoying the snow, I ad previously travelled to lusk too photography as building and a fatal crash scene, I was also in Dublin city centre and passed 2 checkpoints there, after my encounter with the Garda in the Wicklow mountains, I went through 3more checkpoints and not a bother.

So don't tell me that it's the people getting the fines that are acting the pr1cks , if he does send a fine, I won't be paying it.

Unfortunately for me I came across one Garda who seemed intent on giving a fine to whomever crossed his path, as a member of the media I am considered an essential worker, I do not choose where to go on my day, I am sent by a picture desk.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Did he say he was going to fine you?


Your post just seems to say he asked you questions, never expressed any doubt about your reason for travel and then just checked the rest of the car


Are you just annoyed that he stopped you? It's a pain in the arse alright being stopped all the time but maybe that came across to him as well that you felt he shouldn't be stopping you? So he reacted and decided to see if there was anything he could do you for?

You may have missed the first post by the photographer quoted above.

He says the Garda indicated that a fine will issue.

Irishphotodesk

Donald Trump wrote: »

Did he say he was going to fine you?


Your post just seems to say he asked you questions, never expressed any doubt about your reason for travel and then just checked the rest of the car


Are you just annoyed that he stopped you? It's a pain in the arse alright being stopped all the time but maybe that came across to him as well that you felt he shouldn't be stopping you? So he reacted and decided to see if there was anything he could do you for?

He said I was going to be issued with a fine, and asked if I was still living at the address on my driver's licence, to which I responded, yes, I still live there.

I wasn't annoyed, nor did I have any sense of entitlement, I had a job to do and wasn't able to do it, I have already been on to my office who said they are willing to pay it if they have to but they would prefer if I took it to court (guessing so a story can be made about it)

It all depends on whether the Garda decides to issue a fine or not, after that we wait until a court date/summons.

Donald Trump

elperello wrote: »

You may have missed the first post by the photographer quoted above.

He says the Garda indicated that a fine will issue.

Ok. I suppose it was the "member" that I didn't catch. I actually thought he meant someone on boards told him to expect a fine after hearing his story for some reason!


Only the poster was there. I wasn't there. I was only asking questions. I'm not doubting them or criticising them.



If they get a fine sure they can appeal it and win. Pain in the arse to have to go through it but it might be nice to get a "slam dunk" on the principal of the thing if the Guard was indeed acting the arsehole.

Donald Trump

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

He said I was going to be issued with a fine, and asked if I was still living at the address on my driver's licence, to which I responded, yes, I still live there.

I wasn't annoyed, nor did I have any sense of entitlement, I had a job to do and wasn't able to do it, I have already been on to my office who said they are willing to pay it if they have to but they would prefer if I took it to court (guessing so a story can be made about it)

It all depends on whether the Garda decides to issue a fine or not, after that we wait until a court date/summons.

Yeah, sure if they back you, then you can bring it to court. It should be an easy enough win.

Amirani

Amirani wrote: »

There's no rule that only 1 person from a family can go to the supermarket.

Not everyone has someone to babysit their kids and not everyone is able to carry a full load of shopping on their own.

Some people take the p in all fairness. I know there are genuine cases. I was queuing outside Lidl last week and the first people I met inside the door were a couple strolling around holding hands.
My local shop takes 4 people at a time. Again a queue. Inside a woman with 2 teenage children who surely could have waited in the car.
No law against it but a bit of consideration for others wouldn't go astray.

kennethsmyth

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Photojournalism is about reporting live events, not stock imagery.

Great to hear that your brother in law's business is doing well.

Chances are I have photographed the judge at his/her appointment - some of my work involves photographing judiciary and counsel appointments at the courts, if I do get a fine and it goes all the way to court, it's possible the judge may dismiss the matter or the Garda might apply for it to be dismissed, either way, I won't be paying a fine if issued.

There’s something about appealing through Garda website first within 28 days, it’s probably so as not to embarrass the gardai in court with silly incorrect fines that get the gardai a bad name. I’d like to think it’s for the citizens benefit but I can’t help feeling it’s to ensure no one Garda has a power trip and does something to embarrass the profession. Even so if a fine is dropped on appeal there should be some form of censure/retraining if the Garda in question. As if it’s dropped it was obviously incorrect.

kennethsmyth

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

He said I was going to be issued with a fine, and asked if I was still living at the address on my driver's licence, to which I responded, yes, I still live there.

I wasn't annoyed, nor did I have any sense of entitlement, I had a job to do and wasn't able to do it, I have already been on to my office who said they are willing to pay it if they have to but they would prefer if I took it to court (guessing so a story can be made about it)

It all depends on whether the Garda decides to issue a fine or not, after that we wait until a court date/summons.

If it’s dropped or you have to appeal on website and it gets dropped ensure your company still does the story - it’s important law is applied fairly and this smells of a Garda not applying it correctly.

Irishphotodesk

kennethsmyth wrote: »

If it’s dropped or you have to appeal on website and it gets dropped ensure your company still does the story - it’s important law is applied fairly and this smells of a Garda not applying it correctly.

I think they want to do a story if a fine is issued (Garda statistics include essential workers fined), at a guess it will make the Garda withdraw it IF it makes it to court.

In my opinion it's unlikely to go to court but if it does it will be negative PR for the Gardai.

All that fandango

The Continental Op wrote: »

This amused me when I read it this moring.

Gardaí install checkpoints on non-essential airport travel in new operation

Going on holiday here have a €100 fine.

Always thought you could go beyond 5km if you were going to an airport in order to leave the country? And had proof of doing so?

The Continental Op

All that fandango wrote: »

Always thought you could go beyond 5km if you were going to an airport in order to leave the country? And had proof of doing so?

Isn't the problem that going on holiday isn't listed as being an essential journey?

DuffleBag

See when you have a sound Garda who doesn't fine you, you'll have people that will take the piss like this guy

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40213673.html

"They spoke to a driver who had travelled more than 20km to the beach without a reasonable excuse.
The man agreed to leave the area and return straight home, avoiding being fined.
Later that day, gardaí continued to Ardnahinch beach where they met the same driver once again.
The man received a fine for breaking travel restrictions for a second time."

Donald Trump

All that fandango wrote: »

Always thought you could go beyond 5km if you were going to an airport in order to leave the country? And had proof of doing so?

5km limit is relevant to exercise only.
Rule is that you cannot leave your normal place of residence without a reasonable excuse.

Tenzor07

The Continental Op wrote: »

Isn't the problem that going on holiday isn't listed as being an essential journey?

You can travel into Ireland to pick fruit...:pac:

The Continental Op

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You can travel into Ireland to pick fruit...:pac:

Not much fruit picking in January so I don't think that will wash.

Tommmyyyyy

There are people in this country - four or five of them on this thread - who are viewing the restriction period as the best two years of their lives and will be heartbroken when it is over.

beggars_bush

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You can travel into Ireland to pick fruit...:pac:

Work permits differ

beggars_bush

Tommmyyyyy wrote: »

There are people in this country - four or five of them on this thread - who are viewing the restriction period as the best two years of their lives and will be heartbroken when it is over.

Others seem to think their lives have ended

Tenzor07

Tommmyyyyy wrote: »

There are people in this country - four or five of them on this thread - who are viewing the restriction period as the best two years of their lives and will be heartbroken when it is over.

I think some of these accounts here work on 24/7 shifts, swapping over to keep them going....:D

laoisgem

laoisgem wrote: »

Eh no! One person from one household, why would he need to be chaperoned by the missus to go to the chemist?

Because he’s a learner driver and needs to be accompanied at all times.

eastie17

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Couldn't stir out today for my weekly drive fupping snow.

How do you fupp snow? Interesting concept

whisky_galore

DuffleBag wrote: »

"They spoke to a driver who had travelled more than 20km to the beach without a reasonable excuse.
The man agreed to leave the area and return straight home, avoiding being fined.
Later that day, gardaí continued to Ardnahinch beach where they met the same driver once again.
The man received a fine for breaking travel restrictions for a second time."

Sadtrombone.wav

Padre_Pio

DuffleBag wrote: »

See when you have a sound Garda who doesn't fine you, you'll have people that will take the piss like this guy

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40213673.html

"They spoke to a driver who had travelled more than 20km to the beach without a reasonable excuse.
The man agreed to leave the area and return straight home, avoiding being fined.
Later that day, gardaí continued to Ardnahinch beach where they met the same driver once again.
The man received a fine for breaking travel restrictions for a second time."

Saw that today.

It's the same beach! Literally the same stretch of sand, just two different car parks. There are a dozen different places he could have gone and not gotten caught!

Cerveza

The guards will go to dairy altogether tomorrow after the signing off by the three amigos this evening.

HBC08

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

See there's an odd one.

If he rams the recycling into the grey bin, and there's a lot of it, he can cop extra charges.

Does being extorted create an essential journey?

A few weeks ago I had my NCT, as I always do I drove to my mate's brother near Newry for the servicing beforehand.

Reason being chain garages in Dublin are inherently untrustworthy, I'd only attend them if the car is in danger of doing further damage to itself. Like any chain store they have sales targets, performance evaluations on staff, aggressive selling.

Was I justified in driving North because the Republic doesn't have any sort of inspection watchdog that goes after unscrupulous mechanics? All up I got a full service and two brake pads replaced for 220 quid- in Dublin you can pay 100 quid for a go on the diagnostic machine alone.

Youre not on the restrictions thread now.
This kind if nonsense will be called out/laughed at as it should be.

Physicskid9

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

I'm told I will get a fine by a member who decided I shouldn't be more than 5km from my home, I was working for a national newspaper on shift and out doing my job,

I was respectful at all times to the Garda and he was with me, I explained to him that I was a photographer on shift and the job was to find people enjoying the snow, I ad previously travelled to lusk too photography as building and a fatal crash scene, I was also in Dublin city centre and passed 2 checkpoints there, after my encounter with the Garda in the Wicklow mountains, I went through 3more checkpoints and not a bother.

So don't tell me that it's the people getting the fines that are acting the pr1cks , if he does send a fine, I won't be paying it.

Unfortunately for me I came across one Garda who seemed intent on giving a fine to whomever crossed his path, as a member of the media I am considered an essential worker, I do not choose where to go on my day, I am sent by a picture desk.

How is photography deemed essential? I think a lot of businesses (including yours) are taking the mick with what they are deeming essential.

I wouldn't blame the Garda for fining you. Couldn't you just take pictures within your 5k radius.

Padre_Pio

Physicskid9 wrote: »

How is photography deemed essential? I think a lot of businesses (including yours) are taking the mick with what they are deeming essential.

I wouldn't blame the Garda for fining you. Couldn't you just take pictures within your 5k radius.

Maybe the news isn't happening within 5k?
Journalism is still happening, so photos are necessary.

Weddings are still taking place, so wedding photographers are still in business.

Tenzor07

Physicskid9 wrote: »

How is photography deemed essential? I think a lot of businesses (including yours) are taking the mick with what they are deeming essential.

I wouldn't blame the Garda for fining you. Couldn't you just take pictures within your 5k radius.

Just use a Telescopic lens eh?