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Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,837 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/brexit-checks-will-bring-trade-to-standstill-and-threaten-economy-irish-truckers-say-1.4464291

    Truckers complaining about the ''jobsworth'' attitude of the custom controllers , the absence of any oversight or governance control over State agencies .
    Which is so true of any Irish person in a position of power over another. It's not ''what can we do to help'', it's what can I do to lord it over you and hinder you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    "Lorry drivers have hand-delivered letters to the European Commission and the Department of the Taoiseach complaining that Brexit" lost me there, direct all complaints to Nigel Farage, David Cameron, Arlene Foster etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭grassylawn


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The North East was by far the wealthiest part of Ireland before local unionists took control of policy in 1921, County Antrim was the source of most of Ireland's GDP. No reason why some of that cannot be restored. Unionism prides it's self on how badly they damaged the economy and how expensive it is to manage (they view this as protection against a united Ireland).
    That is either wrong, or they are even more bonkers than I thought. We could do without another million odd itterly bonkers people in the country.

    But given that the IRA's overarching strategy was to make northern ireland economically non-viable to keep for the UK, I think you are just wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,766 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Celebrating the Battle of the Boyne in a unified Ireland with its capital in Dublin would be a bit pathetic.

    If a majority of voters in Northern Ireland vote to become part of the Republic, they should know they are voting to join the Republic of the tricolour flag and Amhrán na bhFiann. Thats this Republic, thats the 1937 Constitution.

    Now, I'm not saying the reunification shouldn't be an opportunity to examine that Constitution, to set up a degree of autonomy for the incoming 6 Counties - in fact it presents really good opportunity to deliver a second Republic, with renewed goals, with modern values and priorities.

    For example, we could deliver true local Government, a nation of perhaps 6 or 7 regions with full time assemblies to mirror any autonomy for the 6C.

    At the end of the day though, the Republic right now is a more liberal and accommodating nation of rights and freedoms than the North is. No Unionist or loyalist need fear an inability to live their life and culture exactly as they do currently. Their right to assemble won't be diminished, though just like in NI today, they can expect their symbols and their activities to be opposed by those who disgree with them.

    "No Unionist or loyalist need fear an inability to live their life and culture exactly as they do currently"

    Your second paragraph would suggest otherwise


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,398 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/brexit-checks-will-bring-trade-to-standstill-and-threaten-economy-irish-truckers-say-1.4464291

    Truckers complaining about the ''jobsworth'' attitude of the custom controllers , the absence of any oversight or governance control over State agencies .
    Which is so true of any Irish person in a position of power over another. It's not ''what can we do to help'', it's what can I do to lord it over you and hinder you.

    Yep- I just knew our Authorities would he going to the letter from day one- anyone that has ever had (the misfortune of) dealings with anyone of our regulatory bodies such as Revenue and Dept of Agriculture would know how anal and to the letter that would be. We implement European statutes to the zenith, while elected government conveniently hide.
    People say the likes of the French love bureaucracy and red tape. This place is no different


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,766 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Bizarre line in that where Osborne compares himself and Cameron to Lord North and the fear that they'd forever be remembered as the leaders who lost Scotland.

    They'll forever be remembered as the leaders who lost the EU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    grassylawn wrote: »
    That is either wrong, or they are even more bonkers than I thought. We could do without another million odd itterly bonkers people in the country.

    But given that the IRA's overarching strategy was to make northern ireland economically non-viable to keep for the UK, I think you are just wrong.

    Open a history book buddy.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/belfast/main.html

    Belfast was the largest city in Ireland at the time. The region was booming. The IRA campaign only began circa 1972, Bloody Sunday. London had to take control because in those 50 years, unionists had taken a booming region and turned into a basket case in a state of civil war. Wether the permanent unionist government did this deliberately or through incompetence, well who knows.


  • Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭grassylawn


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Open a history book buddy.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/belfast/main.html

    Belfast was the largest city in Ireland at the time. The region was booming. The IRA campaign only began circa 1972, Bloody Sunday. London had to take control because in those 50 years, unionists had taken a booming region and turned into a basket case in a state of civil war. Wether the permanent unionist government did this deliberately or through incompetence, well who knows.
    No doubt they fncked the place up. It's the notion that they pride themselves on doing it deliberately that I find unlikely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭Wilhelm III


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    I would vote against a United Ireland.

    The culture gap between NI & ROI is too large.
    The Northern Irish are not an uncontacted, hunter-gatherer Amazonian tribe who hunt spider-monkeys with poisoned arrows - they're Dohertys and Wilsons, Murphys and Smiths, Hegartys and Campbells - culture gap indeed :) !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭Wilhelm III


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    I know. You don’t seem to know what culture means.
    May I ask - are you from Northern Ireland?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭Wilhelm III


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    No. I’m not from the north.
    I don't quite understand why you think our cultures are so far apart then? Nor do I quite understand how you feel qualified (for want of a better word, I'm not saying you are not...) to say? I could perhaps understand somebody who was of a Unionist persuasion might feel this way, I would disagree AND agree with them, to a certain extent - but at least I would understand. I've been all over NI, I've been to the place a THOUSAND times - literally. And I don't see, nor have I ever felt - this vast 'culture gap' you refer to. There's definitely SOME differences - but Jesus Christ, they are few and far between.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Northern Irish are not an uncontacted, hunter-gatherer Amazonian tribe who hunt spider-monkeys with poisoned arrows - they're Dohertys and Wilsons, Murphys and Smiths, Hegartys and Campbells - culture gap indeed :) !

    The "culture gap" whatever it is would be gone in a generation at most


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The "culture gap" whatever it is would be gone in a generation at most

    I moved from northern England to Banbridge when I was 16, then moved to Dublin when I was 21. I felt there was far more of a culture gap between Manchester and Belfast than there is between Belfast and Dublin. Some of the more deprived areas had a bit of us versus them culture, but I found it similar enough to what you see between Sheriff St and the IFSC just more colourful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    There was an Orangeman in the White House. He just got kicked out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,101 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    NHS, ROYAL MAIL, BRITISH TELECOM

    HSE, AN POST, EIR.

    Ain't no way anyone over the border would take on any such change never mind the change of Police or the fact that distance for speed limits is imperial rather than metric over the border too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The funniest thing is that the culture and history that Unionists celebrate is pretty exclusive to this island. There was obvious involvement from across the water at the time but that has faded into irrelevance there over the past couple of hundred years, save when the IRA brought it back to them. Ask most English people in what country did the Dutch king win the Battle of the Boyne, they'd probably say Belgium. They'd probably think the Orange Order is an eighties electronica cover band. The cultural differences bewteen Unionists and Brits is far bigger than that with us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    road_high wrote: »
    I don’t think we on the South have “seriously” considered the costs and process of reunification. I know a lot that would be very lukewarm about the idea, even against it. We are very contented down here with no sectarianism or any of that baggage.
    Serious road ahead of that’s what’s going to happen

    It will be like Germany reunification there will be costs but the EU like Germany will share some of the financial costs . It won’t be up to people like you worried only about yourself. , the island should be finally a United Ireland for all the generations after us .


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,070 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    NHS, ROYAL MAIL, BRITISH TELECOM

    HSE, AN POST, EIR.

    Ain't no way anyone over the border would take on any such change never mind the change of Police or the fact that distance for speed limits is imperial rather than metric over the border too.

    The latter two in that list are superior to their UK equivalents and have been for some time.

    The HSC - the NHS does not exist in NI - will be run down to the HSEs level within a few years at current funding

    You may not remember but we did a big bang speed limit change 16 years ago. It'd be easier to do the same in a smaller area with a single roads authority (NIRS) versus the 40 or so we had at the time (NRA, County Councils, City Councils, County Boroughs); and we only replaced miles road signs for kilometres when they wore out.

    Additionally, Northern Ireland has also replaced its police force within quite recent living memory anyway.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    The latter two in that list are superior to their UK equivalents and have been for some time.

    The HSC - the NHS does not exist in NI - will be run down to the HSEs level within a few years at current funding

    You may not remember but we did a big bang speed limit change 16 years ago. It'd be easier to do the same in a smaller area with a single roads authority (NIRS) versus the 40 or so we had at the time (NRA, County Councils, City Councils, County Boroughs); and we only replaced miles road signs for kilometres when they wore out.

    Additionally, Northern Ireland has also replaced its police force within quite recent living memory anyway.

    Can I just confirm something.

    When you mention eir, are talking about the telecoms company that used to be eircom?

    The only thing they are superior to is two tin cans linked together with a piece of string.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,070 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Aegir wrote: »
    Can I just confirm something.

    When you mention eir, are talking about the telecoms company that used to be eircom?

    The only thing they are superior to is two tin cans linked together with a piece of string.

    Openeir, the infrastructure side, as that what was being discussed despite the Eir parent firm name being used

    They are superior in technology, performance and implementation to Openreach in the UK - the equivalent under BT

    The Eir vs BT consumer arms are about as bad as each other.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    Openeir, the infrastructure side, as that what was being discussed despite the Eir parent firm name being used

    They are superior in technology, performance and implementation to Openreach in the UK - the equivalent under BT

    The Eir vs BT consumer arms are about as bad as each other.

    BT must have seriously dropped the ball over the last few years since I left the industry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,070 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Aegir wrote: »
    BT must have seriously dropped the ball over the last few years since I left the industry.

    BT don't have to compete with the Irish arm of Virgin.

    UK has much patchier cable coverage - Central London has nothing, for instance - with much of it capping out at 108Mbit/sec; whereas Ireland has near total urban and suburban coverage at 1Gbit/sec.

    End result is underinvestment and technological stagnation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    NHS, ROYAL MAIL, BRITISH TELECOM

    HSE, AN POST, EIR.

    Ain't no way anyone over the border would take on any such change never mind the change of Police or the fact that distance for speed limits is imperial rather than metric over the border too.

    Sorry but Royal Mail is an absolute sh!te show with very poor quality service and a rather large number of missing items. An Post is vastly superior service.

    BT vs Eir. Don't know if there's any real difference tbh it all depends on your location rural/urban.

    Whatever about the NHS in England, in NI it's cac, waiting lists forever and that's just to see a GP, never mind a specialist. The average ROI lifespan is 2 years longer than the NI lifespan for a reason.

    Imperial measurements are an archaic embarrassment. They should be scrapped wherever in the world they still remain.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The funniest thing is that the culture and history that Unionists celebrate is pretty exclusive to this island. There was obvious involvement from across the water at the time but that has faded into irrelevance there over the past couple of hundred years, save when the IRA brought it back to them. Ask most English people in what country did the Dutch king win the Battle of the Boyne, they'd probably say Belgium. They'd probably think the Orange Order is an eighties electronica cover band. The cultural differences bewteen Unionists and Brits is far bigger than that with us.

    Liverpool has a strong Orange Order, they hold an annual march in Southport



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    liamog wrote: »
    Liverpool has a strong Orange Order, they hold an annual march in Southport




    So, whosoever says there are no people in England remotely bothered by the prospect of Irish Unification was clearly off the mark.


    It would be pretty easy to engage in a bit of "ugly and fat shaming" when looking at these paraders, but I won't let myself slip into this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,070 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Liverpool has an imported mini version of NI in that regard. There was an IPP MP for Liverpool, who actually ended up being the last IPP MP at all - until 1929.

    Even Digbeth or Kilburn would have struggled to repeat that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    L1011 wrote: »
    Liverpool has an imported mini version of NI in that regard. There was an IPP MP for Liverpool, who actually ended up being the last IPP MP at all - until 1929.

    Even Digbeth or Kilburn would have struggled to repeat that.



    That guy was a powerhouse, not just sitting on his credentials.


  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    In my mind there is only one issue stopping reunification in Ireland.

    The fact that southern cinemas appear to me to only stock salted popcorn and not sweet. Absolutely stinking and would make anyone reconsider the constitutional position that they have held so dear.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The_Fitz wrote: »
    The fact that southern cinemas appear to me to only stock salted popcorn and not sweet. Absolutely stinking and would make anyone reconsider the constitutional position that they have held so dear.

    +100, I want this as a requirement of any constitutional settlement.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    liamog wrote: »
    Liverpool has a strong Orange Order, they hold an annual march in Southport

    Meh. The North West of England has 8 or 9 million people.

    A few hundred people stuck in the past/brainwashed by their parents is not significant.

    I'd say 99% of people from that region even with a huge Irish influence wouldn't have a clue what the march was about.


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