Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

So how long are you willing to go along with levels 3-5 type restrictions?

How long do i expect it to last - June-ish.


How long am I willing to go along with it - Until they cut PUP.

spring lane jack

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd take a stab in the dark and say that on March 5th, the restrictions will be again extended, for 2 weeks, to mid march. Then they'll tack on 4 more weeks of level 3. I reckon April will be back to level 3 as vaccines are more widespread and the level system will taper off slowly across the summer and things will start to get scheduled again, and people will return to normal.

They won't set a 'date' for the 'end of restrictions' as people would turn it into a big party, and put us right back where we started.

As for the lockdowns, Dr Tony says “They're grrrrrreat!”.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Not everyone is financially worse of by it. Many people are actually financially better off. So many people can keep going (financially) indefinitely. Longer it goes on the better off they will be.

If the sole metric of importance is financial, and if more are better off than worse off. Then the consensus will be to keep going.

I don't think you understand the economics of this.

There's half a million people currently on the PUP (e350pw). We're borrowing astronomical amounts to pay for all of this. There's no such thing as free money -- it must be paid back.

Further, many of those people will not have the opportunity to return to their previous jobs, where they getting much more than e350pw. They will eventually be moved to the regular, even lower-paying dole. They then won't be able to afford their mortgages etc. Hence we haven't even begun to see the real fall-out from all of this.

It cannot continue beyond 2021.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

How long do i expect it to last - June-ish.


How long am I willing to go along with it - Until they cut PUP.

Fair enough. They'll come after people for that PUP money in some form over the next few years, though.

tdf7187

UDAWINNER wrote: »

I will continue to "play along" to ensure my parents, relatives and friends are safe. It isn't all all about one person, it's about keeping the community safe. Care about someone else other than yourself. Don't be swanning to Lanza for a holiday during a pandemic, follow the rules ffs and don't be a selfish prick exploiting loopholes

This is virtue-signalling, combined with the now common, but still appalling, assignation of base motives to challengers of the current policy.

The point the OP is making is that the lockdown is causing immense hardship, INCLUDING AS A RESULT OF UNTREATED HEALTH CONDITIONS OTHER THAN COVID. You can opt out of the debate, and choose to ignore the direct and indirect costs associated with the current strategy of dealing with the pandemic, but accusing others of not caring and being motivated simply by a selfish desire to go on holidays because they just want the issues debated is simply beneath contempt.

tdf7187

Deleted User wrote: »

The media have been an absolute disgrace, in my opinion. Constantly trying to scare people with never-ending, exaggerated, doom&gloom headlines. Needless to say, I don't pay attention to any of it, but I know others get sucked in and are affected. My advice is to substantially cut down your consumption of "news". You won't be missing out. If something is important enough, you'll hear it outside the likes of RTE.

There is no media debate regarding the issues in Ireland, because it is easy to browbeat a small population. There are a number of prominent lockdown sceptics in the UK, some with a high media profile. I personally pay no attention to RTE whatsoever. If I want to receive updates on the current rules, I go to the official government website.

Rubberchikken

We have to reach a stage where we become realistic and accept we can't save everyone.

Old people die. That's a fact
Is it worth vaccinating someone in their 90s?
Is it worth hospilitising someone in their 90s?

Would we have been better off putting the money that has gone towards so much PPE etc into providing extra hospital beds instead.

tdf7187

tdf7187 wrote: »

This is virtue-signalling, combined with the now common, but still appalling, assignation of base motives to challengers of the current policy.

The point the OP is making is that the lockdown is causing immense hardship, INCLUDING AS A RESULT OF UNTREATED HEALTH CONDITIONS OTHER THAN COVID. You can opt out of the debate, and choose to ignore the direct and indirect costs associated with the current strategy of dealing with the pandemic, but accusing others of not caring and being motivated simply by a selfish desire to go on holidays because they just want the issues debated is simply beneath contempt.

Agree that he was virtue signalling. Don't think he actually understood the original post, though, as he was talking about something else entirely (eg "people going to Lanza") :pac:

Kermit.de.frog

There has always been an element of hopeless optimism with the timelines since the start OP.

From that point, in my opinion, the crisis would be measured in years - not weeks (at the time) or months. I do think we will be closer to the new normal by the end of the year though with some ups and downs in restrictions in between.

Will things ever go back to how they were in January 2020? - people don't want to hear it - but I highly doubt it. These events change society, it's changing society right now.

Normal now is different to what normal was then. What is normal when this ends will be quite different to what was normal in 2019.

Will there be some big uprising because people are fed up - no, the risk to individuals and their families is too high. Most people instinctively know that.

That's just my view - others have a different view and that's fine.

tdf7187

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree that he was virtue signalling. Don't think he actually understood the original post, though, as he was talking about something else entirely (eg "people going to Lanza") :pac:

He's the type that reacts with screeches of "you're killing old people" to anyone raising questions about the current approach. Pure histrionics. I blocked him.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough. They'll come after people for that PUP money in some form over the next few years, though.

Ah sure they already are. I've been taxed on it as though it were normal income (which is fair enough).


People can complain about lockdowns all day and night, but let's not forget when we didn't have the restrictions, people were crying out for lockdowns galore.


Government are in a lose-lose situation. But they've committed to it now, so it's just a waiting game for the moment. I'd say June and things will be looking normal.

All guesswork, of course.

tdf7187

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Will things ever go back to how they were in January 2020? - people don't want to hear it - but I highly doubt it. These events change society, it's changing society right now.

Well, how do you know this? Did change society over the long term as a result of the 1918 flu pandemic? If so, in what ways?

risteard7

emeldc wrote: »

Sincere apologies from me on the ‘porter’ comment. It was a poor choice of words and I shouldn’t have said it. I didn’t mean to offend anyone especially porters and risteard7. I have been in hospital often enough to know what kind of work they do.
Risteard7, truce if that’s ok.

No problem at all. I'm not a porter so it didn't bother me directly. But fair play for that reply, many wouldn't

completedit

completedit wrote: »

Life carries risk and danger. It's what makes life what is really. In any walk of life this would be repeated as a great truth, however, with covid we are acting like people don't die. I just don't understand it. Names of victims on Prime time. Touching but why don't we pay homage to people who die everyday of all types of ailments?

100%. Front page of RTE News has a picture of candles beside the current death numbers. Where were the candles pre-Covid when similar amounts of old people of the same age were dying anyway? Crazy stuff.

Sad to think this type of emotional manipulation actually works on some people.

gozunda

Rubberchikken wrote: »

We have to reach a stage where we become realistic and accept we can't save everyone.

Old people die. That's a fact
Is it worth vaccinating someone in their 90s?
Is it worth hospilitising someone in their 90s?

Would we have been better off putting the money that has gone towards so much PPE etc into providing extra hospital beds instead.

Yes old people die. But old people don't all die at the same age.

So a question - What would your preferred age be for cutting off medical care be?

70? 80? 90?

dalyboy

RGARDINR wrote: »

Lockdown 4 coming to a cinema soon, I mean if it could open and all that......

Lockdown 4 ? Is that the one with the brilliant twist at the end ?

Multipass

Lundstram wrote: »

Said it from the start on this very thread. Children should be in school no matter what happens. The damage that’s being done to their social development, their mental health, their education and overall well-being is bordering on criminal.

Multiply that by 10 for kids with disabilities and special needs.

I don’t even have children.

The special needs schools being shut is outrageous. There will be kids ending up in emergency care because of this. A friend of mine is a single mum of an adolescent with severe disabilities. She isn’t coping physically with this, let alone mentally. It could well end up with her in hospital, and the kid with no-one.

Sam Hain

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Cool story, Jesus.

Multipass

Once the elderly are vaccinated, enough is enough. I’m not even going to wash my hands anymore ;P

Penfailed

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I'm not expecting to unlock this week, but give us some hope that we're on the way to resuming normality [or some form of it] soon wouldn't kill them. Instead they're talking about locking down Christmas and beyond.

I've had a brief search. Has anyone got a link to something showing that the government have said that they will be locking down until Christmas? I'm not talking about some restrictions, I'm talking about lockdown. Otherwise I'll have to assume that the posters saying this are engaging in hysteria and doom mongering.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They are harassing and baiting citizens in Ireland with fines on beaches and out scenic walkways, how is that a holiday?

€2000 for a weekend in south Cork. It will be pissing rain, freezing cold and you need to find a rat run to get there and the guards may tail you to hit you with a fine, all in the name of the nations health.

You're trying to equate the current lockdown with the situation last summer. It doesn't work like that.

darconio

Penfailed wrote: »

I've had a brief search. Has anyone got a link to something showing that the government have said that they will be locking down until Christmas? I'm not talking about some restrictions, I'm talking about lockdown. Otherwise I'll have to assume that the posters saying this are engaging in hysteria and doom mongering.

What do you mean talking about some restrictions? Like is something that could be acceptable/a fair compromise? Same as the 6 weeks lockdown we did to save xmas? If in 1 year time (xmas 2021) we are still in this situation then even the hardcore supporters of lockdowns/restrictions should get their head checked

beansys

For me it's a mixed bag of feelings about restrictions as I see most of them necessary based on all the data I have seen. I strongly disagree about 5 mile travel restriction as I have found no medical data that it's more safe to excersise within 5 miles from your home especially if you live in urban areas then 100 miles in let's say Wicklow mountains or Sligo beach. Absurd restriction I have not adherd to ever since it was implemented.
The second major problem that I have with the lockdown is simply the fact that I feel my freedom is taken and I am seriously worried about this. I can understand how some will say thats bs this is unprecedented event and the government has the right and obligation to protect the public and I agree to extent but I just find it soul crushing that anyone has the power to forbid me a free man to see other free people if I and those people choose ourselves. I have lived my 36 years with no crime and with good moral conduct to others and always felt I am in charge of my life and the choices I make will be beneficial or costly based on my merit and take great pride in my accomplishments and shame in failure.

I have not seen my parents in person for a year now even when it was allowed as I have seen it as unnecessary danger for them and I don't need any government to forbid or allow me it's our choice not anyone else.

I can't help to feel angry about this and if there will ever be demonstration for the return of our lost freedom I would feel obligated to fight for something I feel was taken from me without my permission or democratic vote on such important thing as personal freedom.

Penfailed

darconio wrote: »

What do you mean talking about some restrictions? Like is something that could be acceptable/a fair compromise? Same as the 6 weeks lockdown we did to save xmas? If in 1 year time (xmas 2021) we are still in this situation then even the hardcore supporters of lockdowns/restrictions should get their head checked

Mandatory mask wearing is a restriction, social distancing is a restriction, nightclubs closed is a restriction, large scale events not happening is a restriction. Does this really still need spelled out at this stage?

pjohnson

acequion wrote: »

What???? :eek: I was certain you must be a parent the way you were going on about schools. Maybe the parent of a special needs child I was thinking.

But you haven't a clue what you're talking about if you're neither a parent nor someone who works with young people or works in a school. So maybe give your apocalyptic predictions re kids a rest. Like I told you before teachers are doing their level best and most kids are getting on fine. Not all and we wouldn't want it to continue much longer, but most are grand. If you don't want to believe me that's fine but you can't be making sweeping statements like that without basing it on either good anecdotal or factual evidence.

I like your posts and agree with you on lots of things but not this one.

Lol how can you keep forgetting how this place works. This is a great subplot, how many more times will you be surprised.

tdf7187

tdf7187 wrote: »

Well, how do you know this? Did change society over the long term as a result of the 1918 flu pandemic? If so, in what ways?

As a result of the 1918 pandemic, you had a swing towards socialised healthcare. Which was a radical shift. The fact we live in a world where it's easy to travel to the other side of the world pretty affordably and quickly means that we face issues that they didn't in 1918. So yep I'd say it's likely we'll see changes.

Ones that are already definite is far high levels working from home permanently. So probably permanently move aways from the likes of Dublin. Can see things like mask wearing becoming common too tbh.

In relation to the op. I would say there's an increase in support for some form of a lockdown. More people know people who have been hit by covid post Christmas. It's closer to home than ever. I say this as somebody with a relative in their sixties who is on a ventilator. Imagine the damage of substantial lifting of lockdowns in the near future, it would be a disaster for public health tbh.

Penfailed

tdf7187 wrote: »

Well, how do you know this? Did change society over the long term as a result of the 1918 flu pandemic? If so, in what ways?

They had the 'Roaring Twenties' after the 1918 pandemic.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Multipass wrote: »

Once the elderly are vaccinated, enough is enough. I’m not even going to wash my hands anymore ;P

Why not?

Aph2016

Agree with everything in the original post. This simply can't go on past the 5th of March. I will certainly join protests if that's the case.

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think you understand the economics of this.

There's half a million people currently on the PUP (e350pw). We're borrowing astronomical amounts to pay for all of this. There's no such thing as free money -- it must be paid back.

Further, many of those people will not have the opportunity to return to their previous jobs, where they getting much more than e350pw. They will eventually be moved to the regular, even lower-paying dole. They then won't be able to afford their mortgages etc. Hence we haven't even begun to see the real fall-out from all of this.

It cannot continue beyond 2021.

I don't think you do. Every country and his brother is borrowing and printing money to pay for this. They all support each other in paying this back. As soon as this is over lots of people will be sitting on load of cash and will want spend it. Many people on pup are actually getting paid more than they are in their jobs. But have nowhere to spend it. All this spending will be taxed.

Most banks have stopped mortgage holidays. So anytime to was going to get into difficulty is already there. Even before C19 it was impossible to get people out of properties. It will be the same after this. The bloodbath you are expecting won't happen for everyone. House buying and building has dipped but not that much. People now have saved their deposits and are ready to buy, many who would taken years to get to that point. The system is awash with cash.

Not that you care about the economy. You only care about how this effects you. You asked how long people can support this economically. For many it's a long time because they are better off. It's anyone is on the wrong side of this, that unfortunate. Bit it's a mistake to think everyone is in the same boat.