Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

paw patrol

Kiith wrote: »

Friend of mine has been saying the government never intend on letting us out of this lockdown, and there will be restrictions in place for years. I've been saying they are being crazy, and of course that's not going to happen.

Now, i really just don't know. Saying we will still have these restrictions, even after the small percentage of people who are at risk get vaccinated, is just utter nonsense. Feels pretty hopeless at the moment, with absolutely no end in sight. Really don't know what they are aiming to achieve by removing any hope of a normal life within the next 12 months.

welcome to the dark side, we're a pleasant lot normally.

ypres5

Boggles wrote: »

I all ready gave my opinion, several times quite early on in the pandemic.

It's a 2 year event (hopefully - as in not longer). Before we are over the worst of it.

To understand and navigate this pandemic you really only need 2 things, common sense and a grasp of basic maths. The problem is people are listening to Charlatans and Grifters, there will be no 2nd wave, we have reached herd immunity, we can do it this way, it only effects coffin dodgers, etc.

That just manufacturers a false narrative and when it doesn't materialize it drives people mad, who then isolate further into the echo chambers and drive themselves madder.

We are over the worst of this wave, we have 3 vaccines approved, with more than likely 3 more by the end of the summer, hospitalizations have dropped to below a 1000 and the kids have started to head back to school.

It's gradually going to get easier from now on in.

In terms of positivity we are light years ahead of where we were last April.

but will you be content if the government turn around and say restrictions are here until there's mass vaccinations on a global scale. also the vaccines don't seem to make much of a difference in the government's mind if they're talking about winter 2021 having more waves

robbiezero

BTownB wrote: »

I'll be travelling to parents come March. Will weigh up the risk and social distance. But lockdown until May is unrealistic.

People will just bend the rules more and more.

That's what we do in Ireland, bend the rules rather than publicly protest that the rules are ridiculous.

I actually think this will be how it will work similar to last summer when the actual official lifting of restrictions was way behind what people were doing anyway.

The Government is terrified of just announcing at a certain specific time that travel restrictions are lifted and have all the country visiting each other at the same time. Far better from their point of view to have people emerge from their rabbit holes a few at a time.

ypres5

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That has solved all my issues, thanks

it's like some people read what they want to read in posts and start the whole dO yOU WaNt PEoplE tO DiE nonsense in reflex when I've literally said restrictions should end ONCE the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Boggles

ypres5 wrote: »

but will you be content if the government turn around and say restrictions are here until there's mass vaccinations on a global scale. also the vaccines don't seem to make much of a difference in the government's mind if they're talking about winter 2021 having more waves

I'm not content at all, I'm just pacing myself because I'm basing what is happening and what is likely to happen on science and common sense.

Like I said we will have a very good picture of where we are in March 2022.

Is a large wave possible in Winter 2021 into 2022 yes, is it inevitable, no.

acequion

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

One of the most annoying things I found in the media was the recalibration of the definition of far right or far left.

Not that I think people should be divided into groups like such

If one is anti restrictions they should be defined as far left.
-Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism"

The following is right wing.
The right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".

A very insightful comment and very interesting.

SF are all for zero Covid and sealing the borders so I see them as much more akin to far right and I'm not surprised. They are nationalist to a tee and would probably love an Irexit from the EU.

I'm more surprised with PBP as I did once naively see them as having a left leaning mentality as Fintan describes above. But their embracing of extreme anti individual restrictions is depressing as is the same attitude from other self proclaiming left leaning politicians. But this is Ireland. An obviously fcuked up place.

The complete violation of personal freedoms with impunity and no resistance, the constant imposition of ever more draconian measures like increasing the fine on foreign travel, is what I find the hardest to bear. Never in my wildest nightmares did I ever imagine seeing the like in my lifetime. But with such a sheepish population I guess it shouldn't be so surprising.

I live in hope [but not expectation] of some sort of organised fight back.

ypres5

eye1 wrote: »

"now the government have decided vaccinations for the vulnerable aren't good enough now they want the whole planet vaccinated"

Does using hyperbole allow you to feel outraged? I think you want this to be true. Not easing restrictions on the 5th of March and somehow you can deduce this.
I despair

There were problems with supply, outside of the gov's control mind you. Accept that reopening will be slightly delayed. What can you do ?

I've made no reference to the 5th of March for restrictions being lifted where did you get that from? if you want to pick an argument so badly at least use something I've actually said rather than something you've dreamt up

ypres5

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not content at all, I'm just pacing myself because I'm basing what is happening and what is likely to happen on science and common sense.

Like I said we will have a very good picture of where we are in March 2022.

Is a large wave possible in Winter 2021 into 2022 yes, is it inevitable, no.

but surely by winter 21 we should have a big chunk of the population vaccinated so any waves at that point should be negligible

Chivito550

Can somebody confirm or deny that Michael Martin said on the radio this morning that this is a 100 year event, not that it's once every 100 years, but actually something we will have to worry about for 100 years?

I've been told he said that this morning.

Really hoping this is pure b0ll0cks.

thebaz

Kiith wrote: »

Now, i really just don't know. Saying we will still have these restrictions, even after the small percentage of people who are at risk get vaccinated, is just utter nonsense. Feels pretty hopeless at the moment, with absolutely no end in sight. Really don't know what they are aiming to achieve by removing any hope of a normal life within the next 12 months.

Ramping up vaccinations to the at risk group and the hospitals no longer at risk and figures coming down , should be a signal for a roadmap to normality for those who want to start actually living again , those that want to stay in lockdown cocooned in ther apartment in a state of anxiety indefintly can do so. But what we get is more warnings of lockdown for 2 more months , easy to govern a people in lockdown - Wish some sane brave poltician would stand up for the large amount amount of people who have had eneogh of our over-catious lockdown startegy - and want to start living again, and addressing some of the other non Covid serious isues like cancer / poverty /and other serious medical conditions in particular mental illness.

eye1

ypres5 wrote: »

where have i said restrictions should be lifted March 5th or any other date for that matter? I said WHEN the vulnerable are vaccinated they should be lifted. do you need me to write it again?

How did you come to conclude it's the gov's intention to keep us in level 5 even after the most vulnerable have been vaccinated ? That's what you said

walus

Captain Pillowcase wrote: »

I saw a post a while back mentioning Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and it brought Bronfenbrenner's Ecological System to mind. Especially The Chronsystem which would encompass sociohistorical events such as war and famine and I think a global pandemic would fit right in there.

It has an impact on the development of the child and has an impact on their development going forward. What also has an impact on development is the Exosystem which would include a parents job, so the stress of their job can lead to a rise in tensions in the home etc and again impact the child. If we considered that these systems will influence us our whole lives it is feasible to see the impact on the individual, our systems have been shrunk, many have lost jobs and those in lower paid jobs have borne more of an impact than those in 'higher' skilled jobs, we have become socially isolated and are being fed a constant media diet of doom, negative news and half thought out musings of politicians falling over themselves to be 'seen' and the first one out of the traps.

Children have been removed from classroom settings and deprived of social interactions which are key for development and while it impacts a 5 year old differently to a 15 year old it is still going to have a very big influence on development. And I do think not only on children, you can see it in adults. People who would have been rational adults I have known years have suddenly becoming strangers so unlike their 'normal' selves. Flinching when people seem to close, refusing to leave their homes, shrieking about not daring to see others in the park because "level 5" and how meeting up in the park or for a walk or a coffee is killing people.

Out of interest I looked up the members of NPHET, I note that there does not seem to be one member that would be a physiologist or from the field of psychology. Surely this would be a key member to have sitting on NPHET. I do feel that there needs to be a more holistic team one that covers more than just virology. There needs to be a better range of voices on this team as public health is surely more than this virus? We need not only psychologists but educators, business etc.

I do think the current format of NPHET is not fit for purpose and not just given the CMO's recent failings but the fact the Cillian De Gascun has a direct link the the National Virology Lab. It is failing the citizens it is supposed to be protecting. When children's development is being so greatly disrupted, when people are deprived of social interactions, when older people are cut off from family and their greater social outlets we should question what exactly is our real goal. Surely the phycological impact of these lockdowns and doom loving media needs to be taken into account and the long term implications for society as a whole. I cannot claim to know that this will have far worse devastation on a population than covid but surely the impact has to be great?

Totally agree on nphet. I've been saying for months now that they are dysfunctional and should have been disbanded.

Additionally, I believe that the modeling tools that they are using that are based on the complexity theory are worthless. They are for a 'black box' cases, are inflexible and ignore human behaviour. We are geared to resist government dictates and sooner or latter continue social interaction in whatever channels are available to us. The models that nphet are using are based on rigid and unrealistic set of assumptions.

Nphet don't have means to understand the virus behaviour and they will never have. Yet they are the ones dictating the policy that affects lives of so many people. It is one giant experiment.

Boggles

ypres5 wrote: »

but surely by winter 21 we should have a big chunk of the population vaccinated so any waves at that point should be negligible

Well that's the hope yeah, but you don't abandon vigilance.

Still a lot of questions and unknowns.

Good and bad.

ypres5

Boggles wrote: »

Well that's the hope yeah, but you don't abandon vigilance.

Still a lot of questions and unknowns.

Good and bad.

fair enough boggles but you can still say the same thing 5 years down the line about not knowing the whole story, new strains etc. there's essentially a scientific argument to stay in lockdown indefinitely

RobitTV

Irish Independent: Full Level 5 lockdown restrictions to remain in place until the 12th of April - (Just 60 days more guys!)

Level 5 lockdown restrictions are set to be extended by at least another six weeks , with only schools and the construction sector likely to be allowed to reopen before Easter.

A ‘refreshed’ Living with Covid plan will be published the week after next, but senior figures involved in drafting the document say it is unlikely to give definitive timelines or dates for reopening society and the economy.

Subject to Cabinet approval, the current Level 5 restrictions, which are due to expire on March 5, are likely to be extended until at least April 12.

Irish Independent

JMNolan

RobitTV wrote: »

Irish Independent: Full Level 5 lockdown restrictions to remain in place until the 12th of April - (Just 60 days more guys!)

Level 5 lockdown restrictions are set to be extended by at least another six weeks , with only schools and the construction sector likely to be allowed to reopen before Easter.

A ‘refreshed’ Living with Covid plan will be published the week after next, but senior figures involved in drafting the document say it is unlikely to give definitive timelines or dates for reopening society and the economy.

Subject to Cabinet approval, the current Level 5 restrictions, which are due to expire on March 5, are likely to be extended until at least April 12.

Irish Independent

lol, best of luck to them

eye1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is pretty much always high levels of mortality among the 80+ demographic.

You should look up life expectancy ages in Ireland and the average age of a Covid death.

You wouldn’t say that if it was your parent.

Pretty messed up how much you value the elderly. Sure they’re just collateral damage. Where are your morals ?

Someone has young as 19 died last week. Notwithstanding the long terms effects of COVID on those hospitalised.

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

Big companies/organisations like GAA, Ryanair, Vinters and Aerlingus have had no luck.

Ultimately, what can any of us do?

We’d need to protest. But very difficult to arrange something on any sort of large scale without a political party or something on board.

And the media would desperate to paint you as a granny killing facist.

We should get the church involved.
They've shown a willingness to flout restrictions with the odd mass here and there.
Most of their active members will be vaccinated in the coming weeks and won't be at any person risk.
Maybe there's a Fr Collins in their ranks who could all get behind.
They invented the whole guilt control thing; if they can't beat it nobody can.

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

There is pretty much always high levels of mortality among the 80+ demographic.

It's amazing that this needs to be said.

I have family members in their 80s who I love dearly but they're playing in extra time now. And if I make it to 82+, i'll be playing in extra time.

RobitTV

Northern Ireland: Covid restrictions will return in autumn and last into 2022 after respite in summer, warns Chief Medical Officer McBride

Speaking at the Department of Health’s weekly briefing yesterday afternoon, he said: “I suspect that we will require some degree of the current restrictions, certainly for the rest of this year, probably enhanced again in the autumn and winter of this year, and I think it will probably be into the following year before we see things a little more normal.

Belfast Telegraph

VonLuck

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I was out and about last night and came to a checkpoint, “What’s the purpose of your journey” asked the Guard, I said “just out for a drive” (which I was) and he said “on you go, just try and stay within your 5km” and off I went!

I was 40km from home in a different country mind!!

What a rebel. :rolleyes:

stargazer 68

RobitTV wrote: »

Northern Ireland: Covid restrictions will return in autumn and last into 2022 after respite in summer, warns Chief Medical Officer McBride

Speaking at the Department of Health’s weekly briefing yesterday afternoon, he said: “I suspect that we will require some degree of the current restrictions, certainly for the rest of this year, probably enhanced again in the autumn and winter of this year, and I think it will probably be into the following year before we see things a little more normal.

Belfast Telegraph

There just seems to be no end in sight at all. Listening to Niall Boylan earlier he got quite het up and emotional over it all.

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

There is pretty much always high levels of mortality among the 80+ demographic.
You should look up life expectancy ages in Ireland and the average age of a Covid death.

I read that people are living well past the average life expectancy age in Ireland, even with Covid the numbers living past the ALE is still relatively high!

And of course you're still going to have the outlier examples of young people dying with the Virus, however it's not always apparent the levels of comorbidity that they had...

Captain Pillowcase

Hellrazer wrote: »

If anyone else feels like doing the same Ive attached the email address of every TD in Dail Eireann as an excel file.

Thanks for this Hellrazer. Very much appreciate the work that went into this. Just composed an email to the full list. I doubt I will receive a single reply and I don't hold much hope of it changing anything. I really do not think that a single one of them really understands how people are doing, how much a devastating impact this has had on some sections. They have their jobs, full pay and comfortable pensions so it has not been felt and easy to turn a blind eye to anything other than their need to drive these never ending measures and getting themselves in front of a camera or microphone with little thought to the fall out.

The lack of accountability and a real opposition is worrying.

hynesie08

stargazer 68 wrote: »

There just seems to be no end in sight at all. Listening to Niall Boylan earlier he got quite het up and emotional over it all.

There's your first problem.

Windmill100000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is pretty much always high levels of mortality among the 80+ demographic.

You should look up life expectancy ages in Ireland and the average age of a Covid death.

So the earlier than expected deaths of those in this age group matter less because they don't have long left?

facehugger99

ypres5 wrote: »

can i ask you an honest question boggles with absolutely zero intent to start a row but when will you have enough of restrictions? how long can you keep thinking this is the right path? now the government have decided vaccinations for the vulnerable aren't good enough now they want the whole planet vaccinated. when does it end in your opinion

The sunk-cost fallacy applies equally to people's emotions as it does to actual money.

These people have been so deeply embedded in the lockdown hysteria and narrative that they can't extricate themselves from it.

To step back and consider they have completely overreacted in supporting measures that are having fcuk all effects of fatalities but causing untold damage to our society, mental health, democratic freedoms and future standards of living would be too crushing to their ego.

Quite simply, like the politicians, they are bought in too deep to ever admit they were wrong.

So round and round we go and all the time the damage continues.

It's shameful.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

He mentioned variants at least a few dozen times and clearly said we can't lift all restrictions until there is a global level of vaccinations due to the threat of these variants.

No he didn't.

He was specifically talking about travel into and out of Ireland, quarantine, etc.

Something you 100% agree with as you have stated in the past.

stargazer 68

hynesie08 wrote: »

There's your first problem.

Oh god I know! I usually listen to the first few minutes and then switch it off!

robbiezero

eye1 wrote: »

Perhaps consistently high levels of mortality have desensitized many on here to the devastation covid is capable of inflicting on those who have contributed to society all their lives.

See people boasting on here about meeting up with friends. Why wait then ? By waiting till March you're acknowledging the risk, which believe it or not will still exist two weeks from now. Your selfishness knows no bounds.

I'm waiting until March because I want to visit my parents before I meet any friends.

Risk will always exist.