Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

never_mind · 11-02-2021 11:25AM

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

"Exercise" being your cover story when you are going to the local shebeen with your pals like you were crowing about up to the Christmas/New Year period anyway ?

OK, let's not go mad.

But I would have to say to the OP that you can still run 20k in a 5k zone. I used to run this distance before an injury and there are loads of ways in my area to get to 20k without running 10k in one direction and back. It's a bit silly to break the rules for the sake of it.

I am a bit defeated by the announcement today on the radio. I haven't seen my family since Christmas (which isn't bad, considering). I have literally just sat in since then. The weather has helped in maintaining that but another 6-8 weeks of this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

A very clearly defined action plan needs to be published based not only on case numbers but on vaccine administrations. After seeing that RTÉ Investigates programme, I am still supportive of a lockdown, but without having an end goal in sight and just living in this purgatory is a not good for anyone's mental health. I am not saying open the pubs or gyms NOW, but I am saying that humans need a goal to work towards. If you don't have a goal that is clearly communicated you will begin to drift. If they sold this as 'the last lockdown' then we would be more motivated. I understand they can't do that but you understand what I mean.

Hooked · 11-02-2021 11:26AM

paw patrol wrote: »

Well done them too tbh.
I am very polite always unless I've grounds to not be . I thanked her for her time and left.
Why i don't wear a mask? That's a massive debate tbh which will touch on :
my beliefs in individual agency over my own body

how effective masks actually are (not!)

Can somebody catch it in an open setting like a supermarket (No)

The covid plan by the state is it competent and clear?

and so forth - we could debate for 3 hours on it

and of course, for readers of the IT or Journal.ie - I'm also far right :pac:

There is an argument that I should wear a mask even if ineffective to put others at ease. But another's fear shouldn't dictate how I lead my life.

Nobody meets me (my house or theirs) or the beach/park that doesn't know my covid risk attitude. I'm very open about what I do (and my wife/kids too).

To people reading this ,
Always stand up for your beliefs and don't bow down just cos you are in a minority or the rabble attack you. That type of obedience isn't good for society which we have seen in the past. If you don't speak out it becomes the emperors new clothes.

You'd be right.

Well said PawPatrol... we get one life. LIVE IT!

Too many sheep...

FintanMcluskey · 11-02-2021 11:27AM

normanoffside wrote: »

It was a disgrace that schools were closed for special needs kids in the first place.
In most other jurisdictions schools were never closed for special needs kids or children of key workers, even during the first wave.

Praising our government for being a year behind everyone else is faint praise. We still don’t have schools open for key workers.
Health care staff can’t go to work because their kids are at home doing homeschool.

A close family member works in a special needs unit

The personal development of the service users has been impeded on by years and the have noticed challenging behaviour’s on a scale they hadn’t seen before

I wonder did Ireland see scientific data on special needs schools that the rest of Europe didn’t?

The knee jerk action to impose blanket shutdown’s coupled with tortoise slow reopening promised until mid Summer will have done irreversible damage that won’t be healed for generations

Boggles · 11-02-2021 11:29AM

normanoffside wrote: »

It was a disgrace that schools were closed for special needs kids in the first place.
In most other jurisdictions schools were never closed for special needs kids or children of key workers, even during the first wave.

Praising our government for being a year behind everyone else is faint praise. We still don’t have schools open for key workers.
Health care staff can’t go to work because their kids are at home doing homeschool.

So you have immediately turned something that is extremely positive into something extremely negative.

You have basically summed up the thread.

I've said it many times "the lady doth protest too much"

Captain Pillowcase · 11-02-2021 11:29AM

I saw a post a while back mentioning Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and it brought Bronfenbrenner's Ecological System to mind. Especially The Chronsystem which would encompass sociohistorical events such as war and famine and I think a global pandemic would fit right in there.

It has an impact on the development of the child and has an impact on their development going forward. What also has an impact on development is the Exosystem which would include a parents job, so the stress of their job can lead to a rise in tensions in the home etc and again impact the child. If we considered that these systems will influence us our whole lives it is feasible to see the impact on the individual, our systems have been shrunk, many have lost jobs and those in lower paid jobs have borne more of an impact than those in 'higher' skilled jobs, we have become socially isolated and are being fed a constant media diet of doom, negative news and half thought out musings of politicians falling over themselves to be 'seen' and the first one out of the traps.

Children have been removed from classroom settings and deprived of social interactions which are key for development and while it impacts a 5 year old differently to a 15 year old it is still going to have a very big influence on development. And I do think not only on children, you can see it in adults. People who would have been rational adults I have known years have suddenly becoming strangers so unlike their 'normal' selves. Flinching when people seem to close, refusing to leave their homes, shrieking about not daring to see others in the park because "level 5" and how meeting up in the park or for a walk or a coffee is killing people.

Out of interest I looked up the members of NPHET, I note that there does not seem to be one member that would be a physiologist or from the field of psychology. Surely this would be a key member to have sitting on NPHET. I do feel that there needs to be a more holistic team one that covers more than just virology. There needs to be a better range of voices on this team as public health is surely more than this virus? We need not only psychologists but educators, business etc.

I do think the current format of NPHET is not fit for purpose and not just given the CMO's recent failings but the fact the Cillian De Gascun has a direct link the the National Virology Lab. It is failing the citizens it is supposed to be protecting. When children's development is being so greatly disrupted, when people are deprived of social interactions, when older people are cut off from family and their greater social outlets we should question what exactly is our real goal. Surely the phycological impact of these lockdowns and doom loving media needs to be taken into account and the long term implications for society as a whole. I cannot claim to know that this will have far worse devastation on a population than covid but surely the impact has to be great?

FintanMcluskey · 11-02-2021 11:34AM

paw patrol wrote: »

and of course, for readers of the IT or Journal.ie - I'm also far right :pac:

One of the most annoying things I found in the media was the recalibration of the definition of far right or far left.

Not that I think people should be divided into groups like such

If one is anti restrictions they should be defined as far left.
-Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism"

The following is right wing.
The right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".

11-02-2021 11:38AM

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

"Exercise" being your cover story when you are going to the local shebeen with your pals like you were crowing about up to the Christmas/New Year period anyway ?

I have nothing to hide.Yeah i was in my local shebeen over the Christmas but havent been to it since then. Next session planned for Paddys day

.Are you jealous that i had a few nice pints over the Christmas

ingo1984 · 11-02-2021 11:41AM

I find it interesting the government's fascination with reopening the schools as a priority before everything else. However, Israel who are a good bit ahead of us, attribute the schools as being the primary cause of their third wave and therefore in their current reopening of the country plan, the schools are last to reopen. Only reopening after every other business/retailer/cafe etc is reopened.

11-02-2021 11:42AM

never_mind wrote: »

OK, let's not go mad.

But I would have to say to the OP that you can still run 20k in a 5k zone. I used to run this distance before an injury and there are loads of ways in my area to get to 20k without running 10k in one direction and back. It's a bit silly to break the rules for the sake of it.

I am a bit defeated by the announcement today on the radio. I haven't seen my family since Christmas (which isn't bad, considering). I have literally just sat in since then. The weather has helped in maintaining that but another 6-8 weeks of this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

A very clearly defined action plan needs to be published based not only on case numbers but on vaccine administrations. After seeing that RTÉ Investigates programme, I am still supportive of a lockdown, but without having an end goal in sight and just living in this purgatory is a not good for anyone's mental health. I am not saying open the pubs or gyms NOW, but I am saying that humans need a goal to work towards. If you don't have a goal that is clearly communicated you will begin to drift. If they sold this as 'the last lockdown' then we would be more motivated. I understand they can't do that but you understand what I mean.

Running 5k loops can be quiet boring when your marathon training . Where i live i am lucky enough the roads i am out running are quiet country roads where you rarely meet another person. I see no harm in going outside my 5k if i am not in contact with another person

facehugger99 · 11-02-2021 11:43AM

alentejo wrote: »

I wish they could extend the 5k restrictions even to 10k. Mentally this would help me.

If any post summed up the lack of backbone of the Irish people throughout this nonsense....

Observing how easily our freedoms are removed and how subserviently we accept it is frightening and should concern anyone who values democratic ideals.

ingo1984 · 11-02-2021 11:46AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

If any post summed up the lack of backbone of the Irish people throughout this nonsense....

Observing how easily our freedoms are removed and how subserviently we accept it is frightening and should concern anyone who values democratic ideals.

As a nation we love nothing more than bending over and taking one up the arse. We love nothing more than inflicting misery upon ourselves.

robbiezero · 11-02-2021 11:47AM

JMNolan wrote: »

In our household we've just given up with restrictions and we do what we think is sensible. When we're told there is no let up in sight then we have to make our own decisions. And "you're killing old people" doesn't really wash anymore.

Same. Wife back from visiting parents down the country.
Heading to visit mine the weekend after next.

Will probably start meeting friends again in March.

Boggles · 11-02-2021 11:51AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

One of the most annoying things I found in the media was the recalibration of the definition of far right or far left.

Not that I think people should be divided into groups like such

If one is anti restrictions they should be defined as far left.
-Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism"

The following is right wing.
The right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".

:pac:

Oh Fintan.

GemGem and her band of happy loons and the rest of the racist raggle taggles that took the streets (in very small numbers) to protest restrictions and fast broadband are all far left are they?

Windmill100000 · 11-02-2021 11:55AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

If any post summed up the lack of backbone of the Irish people throughout this nonsense....

Observing how easily our freedoms are removed and how subserviently we accept it is frightening and should concern anyone who values democratic ideals.

Nonsense is your interpretation, fair enough, think as you like. Unfortunately for you, many don't regard what is happening all over the world as nonsense.

Boggles · 11-02-2021 11:57AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

If any post summed up the lack of backbone of the Irish people throughout this nonsense....

Observing how easily our freedoms are removed and how subserviently we accept it is frightening and should concern anyone who values democratic ideals.

What we need is more anonymous ranting and raving online, that will sure up the backbone.

ypres5 · 11-02-2021 12:01PM

Boggles wrote: »

What we need is more anonymous ranting and raving online, that will sure up the backbone.

can i ask you an honest question boggles with absolutely zero intent to start a row but when will you have enough of restrictions? how long can you keep thinking this is the right path? now the government have decided vaccinations for the vulnerable aren't good enough now they want the whole planet vaccinated. when does it end in your opinion

Captain_Crash · 11-02-2021 12:02PM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

many don't regard what is happening all over the world as nonsense.

Exactly! And therein lies the issue... for whatever reason people do see it as nonsense!! Personally I think it’s batsh*t crazy that someone would be happy to just me allowed go 10km instead of 5km.....!

jackal · 11-02-2021 12:02PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

A big part of people management is giving people a target

Absolutely shocking communication from our government. The same tired soundbites are rowed out week after week. "in this together, stay the course, we are concerned about x, next period is crucial". Now they are starting to come under pressure to say when restrictions will be eased and they are going with the usual "treat them like mushrooms" strategy of non-committal answers and vague threats that this will go on for years.

Compare and contrast with how they let people know what the plan is and what needs to happen for that plan to happen in Germany. Actual adults running the show.

https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/germany-extends-coronavirus-lockdown-until-march-7-loosens-some-rules

In the end, the federal and state governments agreed that further reopenings would only follow if a stable seven-day incidence rate of no more than 35 new infections per 100.000 inhabitants could be achieved. Shops will then be allowed to reopen, as well as museums, galleries and other service businesses. As of Wednesday, the nationwide seven-day incidence rate in Germany is 68, according to the Robert Koch Institute.

Boom, there is your target, clear and easily understood. If opposition politicians want to quibble, then they are welcome to argue for a different number, with facts. What the government actually do is make opaque decisions, without giving targets, reasoning etc, and then when things go wrong, they are eviscerated by the opposition as the opposition never had to show their hand and can just ride the wave of public opinion.

Whatsisname · 11-02-2021 12:03PM

Take a shot everytime Boggles calls someone a loon.

Whatsisname · 11-02-2021 12:04PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Exactly! And therein lies the issue... for whatever reason people do see it as nonsense!! Personally I think it’s batsh*t crazy that someone would be happy to just me allowed go 10km instead of 5km.....!

I spoke with my Mother recently and she talked about how "if we have a lockdown next year or the year after"

People have been conditioned into accepting this is now a part of normal life. It's ****ing terrifying.

Windmill100000 · 11-02-2021 12:08PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Exactly! And therein lies the issue... for whatever reason people do see it as nonsense!! Personally I think it’s batsh*t crazy that someone would be happy to just me allowed go 10km instead of 5km.....!

People see it as nonsense for many reasons, including they don't want to live like this, they don't see themselves as being at risk or believe anyone is at risk.... I think there has to be an acceptance though that many do understand the reason for restrictions. And likely will continue to do so.

ypres5 · 11-02-2021 12:12PM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

People see it as nonsense for many reasons, including they don't want to live like this, they don't see themselves as being at risk or believe anyone is at risk.... I think there has to be an acceptance though that many do understand the reason for restrictions. And likely will continue to do so.

i don't think people will understand the need for restrictions if we get the vulnerable vaccinated and the government say that we need to wait until the entire planet has been vaccinated

robbiezero · 11-02-2021 12:12PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Exactly! And therein lies the issue... for whatever reason people do see it as nonsense!! Personally I think it’s batsh*t crazy that someone would be happy to just me allowed go 10km instead of 5km.....!

I think its baffling and saddening that someone would think that being allowed to go 10km would make a big difference to their mental health and yet would still remain inside an absolutely arbitrary 5km line.

BTownB · 11-02-2021 12:13PM

robbiezero wrote: »

Same. Wife back from visiting parents down the country.
Heading to visit mine the weekend after next.

Will probably start meeting friends again in March.

I'll be travelling to parents come March. Will weigh up the risk and social distance. But lockdown until May is unrealistic.

People will just bend the rules more and more.

That's what we do in Ireland, bend the rules rather than publicly protest that the rules are ridiculous.

ACitizenErased · 11-02-2021 12:14PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

Take a shot everytime Boggles calls someone a loon.

that's been the case since last march

robbiezero · 11-02-2021 12:16PM

BTownB wrote: »

I'll be travelling to parents come March. Will weigh up the risk and social distance. But lock until May is unrealistic.

People will just bend the rules more and more.

That's what we do in Ireland, bend the rules rather than publicly protest that the rules are ridiculous.

For me, I have always taken good care in the fortnight preceding a visit.
I and wife WFH anyway so that can easily be done.

Kiith · 11-02-2021 12:16PM

Friend of mine has been saying the government never intend on letting us out of this lockdown, and there will be restrictions in place for years. I've been saying they are being crazy, and of course that's not going to happen.

Now, i really just don't know. Saying we will still have these restrictions, even after the small percentage of people who are at risk get vaccinated, is just utter nonsense. Feels pretty hopeless at the moment, with absolutely no end in sight. Really don't know what they are aiming to achieve by removing any hope of a normal life within the next 12 months.

Captain_Crash · 11-02-2021 12:19PM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

People see it as nonsense for many reasons, including they don't want to live like this, they don't see themselves as being at risk or believe anyone is at risk.... I think there has to be an acceptance though that many do understand the reason for restrictions. And likely will continue to do so.

I agree that many understand the need for restrictions! I think the crux of it is the proportionality of the restrictions. Personally, I understand there is a need but what’s in place is in my view way out of proportion with the actual risks faced as a nation! For most of the population, covid isn’t the biggest risk they face on any given day!

Boggles · 11-02-2021 12:20PM

ypres5 wrote: »

can i ask you an honest question boggles with absolutely zero intent to start a row but when will you have enough of restrictions? how long can you keep thinking this is the right path? now the government have decided vaccinations for the vulnerable aren't good enough now they want the whole planet vaccinated. when does it end in your opinion

I all ready gave my opinion, several times quite early on in the pandemic.

It's a 2 year event (hopefully - as in not longer). Before we are over the worst of it.

To understand and navigate this pandemic you really only need 2 things, common sense and a grasp of basic maths. The problem is people are listening to Charlatans and Grifters, there will be no 2nd wave, we have reached herd immunity, we can do it this way, it only effects coffin dodgers, etc.

That just manufacturers a false narrative and when it doesn't materialize it drives people mad, who then isolate further into the echo chambers and drive themselves madder.

We are over the worst of this wave, we have 3 vaccines approved, with more than likely 3 more by the end of the summer, hospitalizations have dropped to below a 1000 and the kids have started to head back to school.

It's gradually going to get easier from now on in.

In terms of positivity we are light years ahead of where we were last April.

Captain_Crash · 11-02-2021 12:21PM

robbiezero wrote: »

I think its baffling and saddening that someone would think that being allowed to go 10km would make a big difference to their mental health and yet would still remain inside an absolutely arbitrary 5km line.

I was out and about last night and came to a checkpoint, “What’s the purpose of your journey” asked the Guard, I said “just out for a drive” (which I was) and he said “on you go, just try and stay within your 5km” and off I went!

I was 40km from home in a different country mind!!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings