Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

CalamariFritti

Graham wrote: »

...
If the cases numbers support it, yes. Otherwise no.

If the hospital numbers (from covid, not with) support it. Not the 'case' numbers. The definition of a 'case' seems somewhat arbitrary these days.

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

You were the one that asked for "cheap, accurate rapid". Did you find/invent such a test?





So do nothing at all to prevent the spread and possible marginal effect on those infected.



If the cases numbers support it, yes. Otherwise no.

I don't know why you keep putting words in my mouth....I never said do nothing to prevent spread, why are you saying that, opening up safely would still involve restrictions.

Treating a sick person with therapeutics has been around a long time you know, it's a big industry.

Did I invent one...aren't you a mod?

Silentcorner

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

You're not just saying boosting our immune systems would help prevent spread, you're saying it would, by itself, "allow us to open up safely", which means effectively suppressing the virus.

I said no such thing.

Boosting our immune system helps mitigate (not eliminate) the damage of a viral infection, isn't that just science?

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

I don't know why you keep putting words in my mouth

I quite literally copied and pasted "cheap, accurate rapid" from your post.

It appears you have answered your own question there; there isn't a cheap/accurate/rapid test on the market.

I assume because nobody has found/created one. What's your theory?

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

You're not just saying boosting our immune systems would help prevent spread, you're saying it would, by itself, "allow us to open up safely", which means effectively suppressing the virus.

Vitamin D deficiency puts people at higher risk of infection, severe disease and death.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1124/1180110-covid-19-vitamin-d-ireland/

"By May, the first studies explicitly examining the links between vitamin D and Covid-19 began to surface. One study from Connolly Hospital in Blanchardstown showed lower vitamin D levels in Covid-19 patients admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU), and also that those with low vitamin D levels were more than three times more likely to require ventilation.

These findings were soon corroborated by others. A German study showed that not only did hospitalised Covid-19 patients have lower vitamin D levels than less sick Covid-19 outpatients, but that hospitalised inpatients who were vitamin D deficient were roughly 15-times more likely to require intensive care treatment, and over 6 times more likely to die from Covid-19 than those with sufficient vitamin D levels. Several studies also emerged from the US and Israel over the summer highlighting higher Covid-19 infection rates in those with low vitamin D levels."

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

So do nothing at all to prevent the spread and possible marginal effect on those infected.

Graham wrote: »

I quite literally copied and pasted "cheap, accurate rapid" from your post.

It appears you have answered your own question there; there isn't a cheap/accurate/rapid test on the market.

I assume because nobody has found/created one. What's your theory?

You put words in my mouth, I never said to do nothing to stop the spread, please refrain from misrepresenting me.

I find it odd that there hasn't been a test developed, that is all, there are a few too many elements that are odd, which I have already outlined.

Clonmel1000

Question: hospital numbers down approx 200 since Monday. Yet nobody reporting this on the news to any great detail. If figures were up 200 would the news cycle be similar and if not why not?

walus

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Question: hospital numbers down approx 200 since Monday. Yet nobody reporting this on the news to any great detail. If figures were up 200 would the news cycle be similar and if not why not?

Does not support the zero-covid, do not even try flying to the sun for holidays etc. narrative.

Graham

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Question: hospital numbers down approx 200 since Monday. Yet nobody reporting this on the news to any great detail. If figures were up 200 would the news cycle be similar and if not why not?

Aren't both hospital numbers and cases reported daily?

CalamariFritti

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Question: hospital numbers down approx 200 since Monday. Yet nobody reporting this on the news to any great detail. If figures were up 200 would the news cycle be similar and if not why not?

Its been quite clear from early on that RTE deem themselves on some sort of education mission with regards to covid. Educating the simple folk about the seriousness of this. Just in case people look at numbers and stuff and start getting ideas.

Whether its voluntarily or by government 'advice' or simply because everyone else is doing it who knows. But RTE are clearly on some mission here.

They're probably thinking they're doing the right thing, the noble thing, the only thing. The public opinion heroes in this. But by god I am so sick of it by now and they're not doing their overall credibility any favours either.

daydorunrun

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Question: hospital numbers down approx 200 since Monday. Yet nobody reporting this on the news to any great detail. If figures were up 200 would the news cycle be similar and if not why not?

Because positive news seems frowned upon of late. We had the CMO say himself in the past he was worried about low levels of worry in the general population. It's no surprise that on the lowest case rate day- the death rate was a record high even though it wasn't a daily figure. I write that knowing that some time ago I would have considered those views as those of a conspiracy theorist, alas no longer. Remember when the ages of victims was published every day? Well that soon stopped....until yesterday when a 19 yr old died.

Loafing Oaf

Silentcorner wrote: »

I said no such thing.

Boosting our immune system helps mitigate (not eliminate) the damage of a viral infection, isn't that just science?

Silentcorner wrote: »

Why don't we have cheap, accurate rapid tests...which would allow us to open up safely
Why don't we have recommended therapeutics...which would allow us to open up safely
Why aren't we talking about the seasonality factor....which would allow us to open up safely
Why aren't we being advised to boost our immune systems naturally...which would allow us to open up safely

My reading of this is that any of these steps on its own, including merely "talking about the seasonality factor" would effectively solve the problem. If you don't want the derisive responses maybe try to be a bit more precise and restrained in your language.

Clonmel1000

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Question: hospital numbers down approx 200 since Monday. Yet nobody reporting this on the news to any great detail. If figures were up 200 would the news cycle be similar and if not why not?

Nothing conspiratorial. It's just the same reason you seldom see news media spending hours on any good news story. Fear and anger keep people watching/clicking, and that's the business model.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing conspiratorial. It's just the same reason you seldom see news media spending hours on any good news story. Fear and anger keep people watching/clicking, and that's the business model.

You also have to remember, at this moment in time, the State is probably the biggest media buyer over the last year.

They won't want to rock that boat, we know what happens to health experts who deviate from the lockdown narrative.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Of course I don't have an example of a country that has used rapid accurate tests, that is my point, how come one hasn't made it to market, there would be an answer I am unaware of I am merely asking the question.

Because its not easy to develop them. We will get there but results have been mixed so far. PCR is the only reliable method of detection, even if its using a sledge to crack a nut

Again, it's hard to imagine, that a year into this, that some kind of therapeutic remedy hasn't been endorsed, again, there could be a legit reason for this, that I am unaware of.

Again, because it is hard. The trouble with infectious agents is that it is easy kill them, but not so easy without killing the host also. Then you are stuck with trying to mitigate the worst effects while the patients own immune system does to work.

Our own data has recorded 2 surges and very little in between, certainly nothing that would pose a problem to our health service....you do not need data to know that at certain times of the year, we are more susceptible to viruses, and this is manifesting itself in our data, we didn't get a surge last summer, we got one in the depths of winter.

Cases from July to October grew at a steady rate. There was no surge, just consistent exponential growth, but from a very low rate due to April to June. Other European countries saw a surge beginning in August. Other countries had summer surges. With a novel virus it is not necessarily seasonal as the immune system has seen nothing like it, so if it encounters the virus in June or January its on the back foot. Once its endemic its a different story.

The only element that I can see is the new variants/mutations, but this thing is constantly mutating, and will continue to do so, we can't lock ourselves in our homes forever.

Its not mutating anymore than you would expect. Many variants are just that - variants - genetic differences that have been observed but make no material change to the virus itself. A couple have been a concern, but once the is widespread exposure to the virus or vaccine it will be similar to the other coronavirus species that infect humans - residual immunity will reduce severity in most cases, even if it mutates. It will never mutate so much through random selection to a point where it is novel to the activated immune system

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Vitamin D deficiency puts people at higher risk of infection, severe disease and death.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1124/1180110-covid-19-vitamin-d-ireland/

"By May, the first studies explicitly examining the links between vitamin D and Covid-19 began to surface. One study from Connolly Hospital in Blanchardstown showed lower vitamin D levels in Covid-19 patients admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU), and also that those with low vitamin D levels were more than three times more likely to require ventilation.

These findings were soon corroborated by others. A German study showed that not only did hospitalised Covid-19 patients have lower vitamin D levels than less sick Covid-19 outpatients, but that hospitalised inpatients who were vitamin D deficient were roughly 15-times more likely to require intensive care treatment, and over 6 times more likely to die from Covid-19 than those with sufficient vitamin D levels. Several studies also emerged from the US and Israel over the summer highlighting higher Covid-19 infection rates in those with low vitamin D levels."

Sicker people would tend to be Vitamin D deficient anyway.

Whilst the studies sound conclusive on the surface it's not conclusive proof.

Public health recommend the hormone for different reasons for older and sicker people as is.

For them to recommend it for Covid, the conclusive proof would have to published.

That said I have been taking it since March, I could be Covid proof or else I'll have a shít load of Kidney stones to pass soon.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing conspiratorial. It's just the same reason you seldom see news media spending hours on any good news story. Fear and anger keep people watching/clicking, and that's the business model.

Again you are watching too many movies.

Fear and anger is the last 2 things you want a populous to be during a once in a generation pandemic.

walus

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Its been quite clear from early on that RTE deem themselves on some sort of education mission with regards to covid. Educating the simple folk about the seriousness of this. Just in case people look at numbers and stuff and start getting ideas.

Whether its voluntarily or by government 'advice' or simply because everyone else is doing it who knows. But RTE are clearly on some mission here.

They're probably thinking they're doing the right thing, the noble thing, the only thing. The public opinion heroes in this. But by god I am so sick of it by now and they're not doing their overall credibility any favours either.

The last time i watched RTE was in November. I've no time for them any more.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Sicker people would tend to be Vitamin D deficient anyway.

Whilst the studies sound conclusive on the surface it's not conclusive proof.

Public health recommend the hormone for different reasons for older and sicker people as is.

For them to recommend it for Covid, the conclusive proof would have to published.

I think this is one of the issues that need to be looked at during the post-hoc assessment of the handling of this pandemic. Conclusive scientific proof is generally reached through a slow process of studies, peer-review, repetition, and so on. This makes sense in many cases but when it comes to something like Vitamin D where the body of evidence is strong and growing, and the substance in question is known to be safe even at quite high doses, recommendations should able to be made before a "conclusive proof" threshold is reached.

We have after all been able to approve mRNA vaccines even in the absence of a long-term safety profile.

Multipass

Boggles wrote: »

So you are in desperation because of hearsay and loose talk.

My advice stands.

I’m in desperation at the mentality that thinks that it’s reasonable to expect teenagers to live alone in their bedrooms, and wear masks inside their own home! I don’t even have words...

Boggles

Multipass wrote: »

I’m in desperation at the mentality that thinks that it’s reasonable to expect teenagers to live alone in their bedrooms, and wear masks inside their own home! I don’t even have words...

Yep, because they are all definitely doing that.

Ashleigh1986

'

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

To be fair Pat was fond of the hysteria for the past 10 month’s himself.

Luke O’Neill was often a voice of reason on a Thursday morning with him.

Although fair due to Pat for realising the approach is absolutely not sustainable for the time periods being discussed.

.... What would be pat kennys views if he still worked for rte ?
I think we all know the answer to that .
Kenny plays the game the way he has played it for years .
Whoever pays him the most gets his views .

Multipass

Boggles wrote: »

Yep, because they are all definitely doing that.

Of course they aren’t - that’s not the point. Those are the instructions from the uni. There is a cohort of people in a position of authority who think this is appropriate. Nothing seems too ridiculous in this new dystopian ‘normal’.

hynesie08

Multipass wrote: »

Of course they aren’t - that’s not the point. Those are the instructions from the uni. There is a cohort of people in a position of authority who think this is appropriate. Nothing seems too ridiculous in this new dystopian ‘normal’.

Which uni? Which campus? What people in authority? This sounds either made up or an overreaction to a misunderstanding....

showpony1

woodchuck wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is talk of releasing a plan for reopening this year? The level system has been out the window for a long time, they just pick and choose from the levels as they please. Last year at least we had set dates when we knew certain aspects of society would be reopening.

Do we have any idea if something similar will happen this time around? Or are we just going to find everything out on short notice?

you must be thirsty?

showpony1

JRant wrote: »

MM looked fairly rattled trying to answer questions there. He wouldn't fill you with any sort of confidence with those replies.

These are lads who you'd assume are pretty much spending every waking minute discussing the virus situation in the country knowing every facet of it and what the plan is for reopening - but are often totally stumped by simple questions on what is happening.

JRant

average_runner wrote: »

UK can't give that info and they have more vaccinated than us. The problem is, the South African variant.



Until we block all non essential travel in and out of the country, we won't get out of lockdown

Where are you getting that from?
That's mental stuff altogether. Sure we'll never be out of lockdown. If that's the case

Multipass

hynesie08 wrote: »

Which uni? Which campus? What people in authority? This sounds either made up or an overreaction to a misunderstanding....

UCD on campus accommodation.

SnuggyBear

Multipass wrote: »

UCD on campus accommodation.

They are advised to wear masks in their home? Dam

Multipass

SnuggyBear wrote: »

They are advised to wear masks in their home? Dam

In the shared kitchen and living area. And ideally spend most time in their bedroom.... alone I presume.