16 family members given vaccine

Newuser2

Newuser2 wrote: »

Covid is a cash cow for them

It distracts from the 33 post vaccine deaths so far in Norway.

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

He has sons over 70? How old is this guy?

How was it practical to bust into a garda station at 3 AM and say "Right lads, arms out, here comes the vaccine" - especially when the HSE had no official policy at the time on leftovers. I certainly wouldn't want that legal risk.

Not very really that's why it's only you talking about it.

Newuser2

Newuser2 wrote: »

Covid is a cash cow for them

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not very really that's why it's only you talking about it.

Well then, where was he going to get these magical people from? After dilution the vaccine only has a shelf life of 6 hours, probably 4 or 5 of those were already gone with the initial vaccinations, you don't have days to work out what to do with the leftovers.

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

Well then, where was he going to get these magical people from? After dilution the vaccine only has a shelf life of 6 hours, probably 4 or 5 of those were already gone with the initial vaccinations, you don't have days to work out what to do with the leftovers.

So you're part of the group that believes his son was the highest priority person available was his son that doesn't work in the hospital?

hynesie08

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you're part of the group that believes his son was the highest priority person available was his son that doesn't work in the hospital?

Where does he work then? Or do you not count it because it's voluntary?

Multipass

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you're part of the group that believes his son was the highest priority person available was his son that doesn't work in the hospital?

I think the takeaway from this thread is that a large proportion of the population tacitly approve of nepotism. It’s still ingrained in so many areas of Irish life, and there seems to be depressingly little will to stamp it out. It’s so deep within the culture at every level :mad:

Multipass

Multipass wrote: »

I think the takeaway from this thread is that a large proportion of the population tacitly approve of nepotism. It’s still ingrained in so many areas of Irish life, and there seems to be depressingly little will to stamp it out. It’s so deep within the culture at every level :mad:

The takeaway isn't that at all. Of course there is huge nepotism in Ireland still, but this isn't an example of it.

Multipass

Deleted User wrote: »

The takeaway isn't that at all. Of course there is huge nepotism in Ireland still, but this isn't an example of it.

Right, it’s just bad ‘optics’

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

The takeaway isn't that at all. Of course there is huge nepotism in Ireland still, but this isn't an example of it.

Jesus you've got it bad S.

Nepotism: the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends

Prof Michael O’Connell, the hospital’s manager, said he now regrets that relatives of hospital employees were vaccinated with doses left over on Friday, January 8th after more than 1,100 doses were given to frontline staff, GPs and local community health workers.

Two of the recipients are understood to be Dr O’Connell’s children, one of whom is college-going age, and is a paid part-time worker in his private medical practice. The other works intermittently in the hospital as an unpaid worker.

hynesie08

Multipass wrote: »

I think the takeaway from this thread is that a large proportion of the population tacitly approve of nepotism. It’s still ingrained in so many areas of Irish life, and there seems to be depressingly little will to stamp it out. It’s so deep within the culture at every level :mad:

Most rational people are seeing the takeaway as "on short notice, with no guidance, he got 120 extra vaccines into the arms of Healthcare workers and over 70s without any waste......."

steddyeddy

Multipass wrote: »

I think the takeaway from this thread is that a large proportion of the population tacitly approve of nepotism. It’s still ingrained in so many areas of Irish life, and there seems to be depressingly little will to stamp it out. It’s so deep within the culture at every level :mad:

Very much so. I lived in America for some of the last years. I worked in a lab which had rules on nepotism and rules on hiring relatives. There's similar rules in the American health care system:

The Human Resources Director must be notified and approve employment of individuals who will directly or indirectly supervise or be directly or indirectly supervised by his/her husband, wife, parent, step-parent, brother, sister, child, stepchild, grandchild, grandparent, mother-in-law, father-in-law, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, or any person with whom he/she has a relationship in loco parentis.

The Human Resources Director must be notified and approve of promotions and transfers of individuals who then will directly or indirectly supervise or be directly or indirectly supervised by his/her husband, wife, parent, step-parent, brother, sister, child, stepchild, grandchild, grandparent, mother-in-law, father-in-law, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, or any person with whom he/she has a relationship in loco parentis.

Multipass

hynesie08 wrote: »

Most rational people are seeing the takeaway as "on short notice, with no guidance, he got 120 extra vaccines into the arms of Healthcare workers and over 70s without any waste......."

This is what I mean - no one blinks an eye at the fact that he employs his family member. Was there an open competition for that job? Just like all of the politicians who employ their family as PAs. People will be here defending that too, because they like it. It keeps the club safe.

GreeBo

plodder wrote: »

5 days. I agree it's not feasible to move it after it arrives in any location. It'd be better to use up the remainder of the five days finding the right people to give it to, than what happened here.

You keep assuming that this happened on day 1 of the vaccine being taken out of the deep freeze, do you have any proof that this batch wasnt already on day 5?

odyssey06

hynesie08 wrote: »

Most rational people are seeing the takeaway as "on short notice, with no guidance, he got 120 extra vaccines into the arms of Healthcare workers and over 70s without any waste......."

It's a pretty tired and lame debating trick to prejudice the debate that way - "rational people".
It's irrational to be concerned about nepotism? Nope.

hynesie08

Multipass wrote: »

This is what I mean - no one blinks an eye at the fact that he employs his family member. Was there an open competition for that job? Just like all of the politicians who employ their family as PAs. People will be here defending that too, because they like it. It keeps the club safe.

One is a volunteer, the other works in the private practice, why would either of them fall under open competition?

Would you Boycott the fruit and veg shop if he got his lad down on a Saturday for a spare set of hands?

steddyeddy

Multipass wrote: »

This is what I mean - no one blinks an eye at the fact that he employs his family member. Was there an open competition for that job? Just like all of the politicians who employ their family as PAs. People will be here defending that too, because they like it. It keeps the club safe.

Yep amazing. Some people actually call them out on it though. In a lot of other countries it would be considered bad to hire people with the primary consideration between familial ties.

My favourite article in relation to the HSE is this one which appeared in the Sunday Independent. The children of 7 managers got jobs

Nepotism is rampant throughout the Health Service Executive (HSE), as the Sunday Independent has exposed another group of children of senior managers being appointed to jobs which were not advertised.

Three weeks ago, this newspaper revealed that the children of four managers in a Cork office and three children of managers in Limerick were appointed to non-advertised positions despite a national moratorium on recruitment.

This weekend, the Sunday Independent has learned the children of another three senior managers in Dublin were appointed to clerical grade-three positions on a temporary basis to aid in the administration of the Back to School Scheme. However, these people are still in their posts over a year later.

The individuals involved in the Dublin office are: Eoin Tighe, son of regional manager Rita Tighe; Grace Whittle, daughter of superintendent Joseph Whittle; and Mark Mulvihill, son of senior manager Noel Mulvihill.

What did you see on the thread debating this?

Some people call it 'nepotism', others would call it networking. I'd much rather work with someone I knew who was less qualified, then some I don't know who is more qualified.

They say crazy people don't know they're crazy. Likewise people stuck in this culture don't know any better. Well I suggest those people actually work in other countries and see that this type of thing is frowned upon.

hynesie08

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's a pretty tired and lame debating trick to prejudice the debate that way - "rational people".
It's irrational to be concerned about nepotism? Nope.

When the counter arguments are
Throw them in the bin
Offer them to strangers on the street
Give them to fathers who aren't in the building
Put the vials in an ambulance to a care home
Inject the vulnerable as Guinea pigs

I've got no issue calling that side irrational.

steddyeddy

hynesie08 wrote: »

When the counter arguments are
Throw them in the bin
Offer them to strangers on the street
Give them to fathers who aren't in the building
Put the vials in an ambulance to a care home
Inject the vulnerable as Guinea pigs

I've got no issue calling that side irrational.

The problem is that by extension you're referring to the ex master of Coombe irrational.

Prof Fitzpatrick, a consultant obstetrician at the Coombe, said he was “deeply concerned” to learn non-frontline relatives of staff had received vaccines.

“It is essential that the public receive greater reassurance, and that the rollout of a lifesaving vaccination programme during this very difficult time is conducted with transparency, equity and accountability, and in accordance with national guidelines,” he said. There needed to be an independent investigation “undertaken quickly to clarify the facts”, he added.

odyssey06

hynesie08 wrote: »

When the counter arguments are
Throw them in the bin
Offer them to strangers on the street
Give them to fathers who aren't in the building
Put the vials in an ambulance to a care home
Inject the vulnerable as Guinea pigs

I've got no issue calling that side irrational.

They weren't the only options, so I totally reject your prejudicial words, as I said it's an aggressive and obvious debating trick.

You shouldn't put yourself in that position and when you get in that position you don't resort to favouritism and nepotism. The people who jumped the queue now need a second dose, thereby delaying someone who needs the vaccine more.

RandomViewer

hynesie08 wrote: »

One is a volunteer, the other works in the private practice, why would either of them fall under open competition?

Would you Boycott the fruit and veg shop if he got his lad down on a Saturday for a spare set of hands?

Fruit and veg shop manager isn't paid for by the Irish people

Privacy Notice

odyssey06 wrote: »

. The people who jumped the queue now need a second dose, thereby delaying someone who needs the vaccine more.

Delaying who and by how long? Put a number on it if you believe it. I say the opposite. They got a hundred or so (I don't recall the exact number) more vaccines out of their batch so they were able to vaccinate more people rather than deprive anyone of anything.

Privacy Notice

RandomViewer wrote: »

Fruit and veg shop manager isn't paid for by the Irish people

It's a PRIVATE practice, no different to a private business selling fruit and veg. Irish people are customers of both.

hynesie08

odyssey06 wrote: »

They weren't the only options, so I totally reject your prejudicial words, as I said it's an aggressive and obvious debating trick.

You shouldn't put yourself in that position and when you get in that position you don't resort to favouritism and nepotism. The people who jumped the queue now need a second dose, thereby delaying someone who needs the vaccine more.

Give me the better options then.

Did they get the vaccine first, no

Did they get it before the 100 plus healthcare workers who got excess doses - no

Did they get it before the over 70s - no

Is there any evidence that anybody was overlooked before they got it - no

How do you jump a queue that didn't exist for excess doses that were never Guarenteed......

hynesie08

RandomViewer wrote: »

Fruit and veg shop manager isn't paid for by the Irish people

Neithers a private practice, clues in the name.

And traditionally volunteers aren't paid, or they'd be called something like staff.

RandomViewer

Privacy Notice wrote: »

Delaying who and by how long? Put a number on it if you believe it. I say the opposite. They got a hundred or so (I don't recall the exact number) more vaccines out of their batch so they were absent vaccinate more people rather than deprive anyone of anything.

Would I be right in thinking that the jabs were all recorded time,date etc, if the relatives were vaccinated earlier than claimed I think its game over

Privacy Notice

RandomViewer wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking that the jabs were all recorded time,date etc, if the relatives were vaccinated earlier than claimed I think its game over

If my Aunt was a man she'd be my Uncle. Absolutely pointless conjecture.

Privacy Notice

RandomViewer wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking that the jabs were all recorded time,date etc, if the relatives were vaccinated earlier than claimed I think its game over

If they didn't vaccinate anyone that day and just binned the 1000+ vaccines, I think it would be game over.


Etc etc...

Privacy Notice

RandomViewer wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking that the jabs were all recorded time,date etc, if the relatives were vaccinated earlier than claimed I think its game over

Pointless strawman argument.

RandomViewer

hynesie08 wrote: »

Neithers a private practice, clues in the name.

And traditionally volunteers aren't paid, or they'd be called something like staff.

So both were ineligible and the private practice one is in breach of lockdown as they close around 5PM It will all come out in the medical council hearing anyway

odyssey06

hynesie08 wrote: »

Give me the better options then.
Did they get the vaccine first, no
Did they get it before the 100 plus healthcare workers who got excess doses - no
Did they get it before the over 70s - no
Is there any evidence that anybody was overlooked before they got it - no
How do you jump a queue that didn't exist for excess doses that were never Guarenteed......

The better options is to have a bigger standby list of those in groups 1-4.

They will have to get their second dose before those in priority groups 1-4.
They were bumped up the queue for first dose to use up a spare, which would be more defensible imo if this was a one dose vaccine.

But now they stay at the head of the queue for second dose, presumably.
So that's the queue they have jumped.
We shouldn't be giving any vaccines out to those at the bottom of the queue who aren't scheduled for months.
It's one thing to move someone up a step or two on the ladder, not the whole way. And not when it's because of your surname.