16 family members given vaccine

screamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some macro managers are better than others at planning strategies. HSE gets low marks at all times in this respect. There was a whole summer to get a few heads together to make Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, Plan D. Formulate the algorithms. The right people are not in situ. I worked in public service, at times it could make your heart break.

Indeed pen pushers promoted for length of tenure rather than ability and delivery....

McFly85

titan18 wrote: »

You don't need to come up with detailed vaccination procedures, know how many vaccines youre getting or what is required for storage to ask and address the question of what do we if we have extra in a location. No shows are always a guarantee in a program this size so if no one in any meetings they had on vaccinations didn't go what do we do with extra doses if people don't turn up then it's an example of their incompetence.

It isn't rocket science that we're on about here. It's a very simple problem and if they don't have the infrastructure to deal with being able to do mass communications to this already (thinking stuff like call tree tests for BCP here), it sums up what I think of them.

I think that's over simplifying it a bit, due to the short lasting nature of the vaccine. And if you're thinking it should be similar to a BCP exercise that would involve:

Reviewing the currently available centralised technology for communications for healthcare workers and confirming whether it has the capacity to determine front line healthcare workers

Reviewing a national list of healthcare workers to ensure the persons and roles are accurate and up to date

Documenting a customised plan for each hospital to ensure they are aware of where their closest facilities are

Planning at what point the contacts need to be confirmed by to ensure the vaccine wont be expired by the time of arrival(again, customised probably per region as this will differ)

Enrolling all involved in administering the vaccine nationally in a course to ensure they are aware of their duties regarding excess vaccines.

You probably think I'm overcomplicating it, but if you're going to ask the HSE to be prepared to be able to prioritise for excess then you can't ask them to be vague about it. Obviously we know now this level of detail isn't required in a real sense because we've seen that there's only a low amount of excess that has been given to non frontline workers, and it's actually better for the HSE to react to this by putting extra procedures in place rather than have spent their time trying to predict all sorts of scenarios that might happen.

Tenzor07

This been linked already?

More Hospital family members given the Vaccine:

https://www.independent.ie/news/second-maternity-hospital-gave-covid-19-vaccine-to-family-members-of-staff-39981610.html

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This been linked already?

More Hospital family members given the Vaccine:

https://www.independent.ie/news/second-maternity-hospital-gave-covid-19-vaccine-to-family-members-of-staff-39981610.html

It says 2 people then goes on to say 37. Which is it?

titan18

McFly85 wrote: »

I think that's over simplifying it a bit, due to the short lasting nature of the vaccine. And if you're thinking it should be similar to a BCP exercise that would involve:

Reviewing the currently available centralised technology for communications for healthcare workers and confirming whether it has the capacity to determine front line healthcare workers

Reviewing a national list of healthcare workers to ensure the persons and roles are accurate and up to date

Documenting a customised plan for each hospital to ensure they are aware of where their closest facilities are

Planning at what point the contacts need to be confirmed by to ensure the vaccine wont be expired by the time of arrival(again, customised probably per region as this will differ)

Enrolling all involved in administering the vaccine nationally in a course to ensure they are aware of their duties regarding excess vaccines.

You probably think I'm overcomplicating it, but if you're going to ask the HSE to be prepared to be able to prioritise for excess then you can't ask them to be vague about it. Obviously we know now this level of detail isn't required in a real sense because we've seen that there's only a low amount of excess that has been given to non frontline workers, and it's actually better for the HSE to react to this by putting extra procedures in place rather than have spent their time trying to predict all sorts of scenarios that might happen.

I would assume a lot of those should be done already. I would imagine their BCP system is broken down by departments so if you need to communicate to everyone in cancer roles for example due to an issue there, you can. I know where I work it's at team level so if my teams needs one that's not relevant to sales, it can be done.

I'd hope they keep records of people's roles up to date, both due to regular HR upkeep, regular call tree tests for their BCP etc.

Not complicated to workout where hospitals/GPS etc are located. I work in a healthcare industry and I can do that in about 5 minutes. All you'd need is the HSE to have relevant contacts per hospital.

I'd also question the course being needed. At worst you need them to fill an online form so that there away of it and the procedures.

Tbh, I strongly think a lot of that stuff should be in place pre covid anyway so if it's not, I think it's ridiculous. Like if a large fire breaks out at a hospital, surely there's a system in place to inform staff of it and to make other hospitals aware so you can spread the patients out amongst them. Disease outbreaks in hospitals or wards etc are all things thay can easily happen that there should be a system like above that you can repurpose for this vaccine rollout with staff

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

It says 2 people then goes on to say 37. Which is it?

37 total, 2 family members

The hospital said 37 people, including GPs and “members of other vulnerable groups” received the excess vaccine doses. The Irish Times understands there were two relatives of staff members among the cohort of people in vulnerable categories who received the vaccine.

hynesie08

Deleted User wrote: »

It says 2 people then goes on to say 37. Which is it?

37 people including gps and members of vulnerable groups, 2 of whom were related to a member of staff....

JeffKenna

hynesie08 wrote: »

37 people including gps and members of vulnerable groups, 2 of whom were related to a member of staff....

No issue with that when they were in vulnerable groups, makes sense.

PO!NT

PO!NT wrote: »

Tip of the sword stuff imo.

I have 0 proof but I dont believe this is an isolated event.

SteM wrote: »

Sure why would you need proof when you can make baseless accusations. Isn't that whet the internet was invented for.

PO!NT wrote: »

You think this is an isolated incident?

SteM wrote: »

I don't know because I have no proof - you're the one who believes things with '0 proof'.

Zero proof - you're not even coming out with the usual 'well I heard off a mate that works in a hospital' type guff, you're believing something with no proof whatsoever.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This been linked already?

More Hospital family members given the Vaccine:

https://www.independent.ie/news/second-maternity-hospital-gave-covid-19-vaccine-to-family-members-of-staff-39981610.html

Corruptedmorals

The varying doses in the vials and the very short expiry make this very awkward. It sounds like the Coombe did the best they could rather than waste- they had already given it to GPs and healthcare workers in the community.

In the experience of the hospital where I work, they roughly know what day a batch will arrive in but they don't know how many vials until it gets here. They have staff grouped in priority but it's hard to plan numbers etc. Last week a neighbouring hospital offered extra to our medical staff. This week our hospital have vaccinated medical staff of another hospital with doses left over. Staff numbers available can vary when people are out isolating or sick too.

Calhoun

Not good from an optics perspective makes it look like same old nepotism that runs in Ireland.

I agree the vaccines shouldn't be wasted but there should be an agreed upon protocol that is fair.

Allot of hay will be made from this by opposition politicians just another stick for the government's back.

tomwaits48

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The outragers are going to love this one.

Hateful to see a bit of common sense get in the way of a decent bit of outrage, especially during theses trying times.

It is an absolute disgrace etc etc , typical abuse of senior positions etc etc, how dare they? My auntie hasn't got hers yet etc etc.

Rosin Shortall on the airwaves moaning as usual.

steddyeddy

BrianD3 wrote: »

Thing is though, while some posters in this thread (who hopefully are never employed in the public service or in any position of responsibility) seem to have no issues with nepotism, many actual public servants would recoil in horror at this. Those are the good ones with a public service ethos. Still some bad ones and given the relatively recent news stories about nepotism in recruitment in the HSE, that organisation would appear to still have issues.

I'd say that many defending this don't even believe what they're saying just looking for an argument. The usual boards phenomenon of pick a side of an argument in order to criticise and wind others up even if it means defending the indefensible. No point criticising third parties like the HSE or Coombe as they are not "here". Throw in a few sneers about the perpetually outraged etc.

Similar to if I went on a thread about Charlie Haughey's antics and tried to spin it as him doing things for the "right reasons". No point taking the opposite side and trying to get a reaction out of Haughey himself.

Nail on the head Brian. I live in Germany and the story, which was featured on the BBC was the subject of comments about nepotism, inquires as to how angry Irish people are and about how backward the country seems.

I worked in the HSE and there's many good ones but likewise there's those who are only working there due to their (insert relative here). You literally cannot fire them because that would create family problems.

steddyeddy

hynesie08 wrote: »

So since the 2 kids work in healthcare, they'd be on this list right? What if 10 people reply?

I don't want to get into the stupidity of thinking that these kids, working part time and on a voluntary basis got the vaccine because of need.

steddyeddy

McFly85 wrote: »

While I'm no great fan of the HSE, "they should have just had x ready" is a little unfair. The last 11 months have probably had unprecedented strain on the system, and out of everything they had to do they would have rightly prioritised the care of current patients and what would be required in the present. There would have been little point in starting to come up with detailed vaccination procedures before knowing how many vaccines they will get and what is required for storage/administration etc.

Also, it's unrealistic for anyone to expect a national rollout of any new procedure, especially one that didn't have a huge amount of preparation time, to go entirely smoothly or to have detailed redundancy plans in place. It's a constantly evolving situation that will get better as it goes. And in the grand scheme of things it's a minute amount of cases we're actually discussing.

Yes criticism of the frontline workers in unfair and sometimes even for admin staff but the IT platform for vaccination was supposed to be ready before Christmas.

polesheep

Amirani wrote: »

You shouldn't be allowed work in healthcare if you have another relative working in or receiving healthcare. Nepotism needs to be stamped out.

You shouldn't be able to jump the vaccine queue just because you have a relative working in health care.

humberklog

The government should've been ahead of this issue by relaying to the public that there might be left over doses in some batches and what the managers of those doses are instructed to do with them.

When you read the headline it doesn't look good but it only takes a bit more reading and rationing to realise that it was good use of extra vaccine.

silver2020

I bet the master wishes he fuc ked the spare vaccines in the bin to please all the covid police and the snowflakes

Will those who are olympic gold medal standard whining (roisin "whine at everything" shortall in particular) understand that there was probably a window of 30-45minutes to use these last doses. They can't just be put back on the shelf for tomorrow or refrozen. They HAVE to be used within a few hours of coming out of the -70 freezer. Its not a "best before" it's a use it or lose it ticking clock.

Calhoun

steddyeddy wrote: »

Nail on the head Brian. I live in Germany and the story, which was featured on the BBC was the subject of comments about nepotism, inquires as to how angry Irish people are and about how backward the country seems.

I worked in the HSE and there's many good ones but likewise there's those who are only working there due to their (insert relative here). You literally cannot fire them because that would create family problems.

What's concerning is that most in ireland have been negatively impacted by nepotism and cute hoorism in the past 15 years (banking sector) and have said never again but here we are again.

By not holding them to account now we run into a very real situation where we leave a back door open for people to skip the queue.

silver2020

polesheep wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to jump the vaccine queue just because you have a relative working in health care.

so throw the remaining doses in the bin then?

vurstflavor

Vaccines have to be stored in refrigerator
So have to be used or tossed then they will vaccinate any one that will take it in norway pfizer one killed 27 people so make sure you have no alligies especially to eggs
Most places will only do online appointments

Fann Linn

silver2020 wrote: »

I bet the master wishes he fuc ked the spare vaccines in the bin to please all the covid police and the snowflakes

Will those who are olympic gold medal standard whining (roisin "whine at everything" shortall in particular) understand that there was probably a window of 30-45minutes to use these last doses. They can't just be put back on the shelf for tomorrow or refrozen. They HAVE to be used within a few hours of coming out of the -70 freezer. Its not a "best before" it's a use it or lose it ticking clock.

So why did the Board and Master of the Coombe apologise?

hynesie08

Fann Linn wrote: »

So why did the Board and Master of the Coombe apologise?

He shouldn't have, but Donnelly is already trying to throw him under the bus, so I can see why he did.

jill_valentine

Fann Linn wrote: »

So why did the Board and Master of the Coombe apologise?

In public life an apology is more closely tied to what's prudent vs what's justified.

He apologised because it was politically tactful to do so. Whether or not he also happens to think it was warranted, we've no way to know.

He could come to regret it as the government and HSE hold him up as whipping boy to distract from bigger failures over his head, in terms of logistics and the explicit admission earlier today that we opened up in December and brought on a massive surge just for the sake of the economy.

Both of these things getting remarkably little airtime today for the sake of 7 doses.

PO!NT

silver2020 wrote: »

I bet the master wishes he fuc ked the spare vaccines in the bin to please all the covid police and the snowflakes

Will those who are olympic gold medal standard whining (roisin "whine at everything" shortall in particular) understand that there was probably a window of 30-45minutes to use these last doses. They can't just be put back on the shelf for tomorrow or refrozen. They HAVE to be used within a few hours of coming out of the -70 freezer. Its not a "best before" it's a use it or lose it ticking clock.

I want to be on the spare vaccine list, where do I sign up?

steddyeddy

Calhoun wrote: »

What's concerning is that most in ireland have been negatively impacted by nepotism and cute hoorism in the past 15 years (banking sector) and have said never again but here we are again.

By not holding them to account now we run into a very real situation where we leave a back door open for people to skip the queue.

I know. I think it's likely because they have relatives that benefited from it. I was having a conversation with a friend who's an lawyer in Ireland about it today. He was blatantly defending nepotism, which I thought it out of character until I remembered he's working in his dad's law firm as well as his brother and cousin.

polesheep

silver2020 wrote: »

so throw the remaining doses in the bin then?

It's not about the remaining doses, it's about cronyism, nepotism, cheating, corruption, I could go on. Today it's vaccines tomorrow it will be something else.

If those in positions of power are permitted to use that power to the benefit of their family or friends then we are no better than a banana republic.

Dyr

Are we all saying that there arent any cleaning or catering staff in the Coombe with multiple categories for Covid vulnerabilities that they couldnt have jabbed before Billy Big Balls brought in a selection of relatives in for a family pack shot?

Are we f***k, pure nepotism, an example needs to be made to nip this in the bud or it will be open season. You'll have every cute hoor with pull in the HSE rocking up to a hospital with their aul pair.

steddyeddy

jill_valentine wrote: »

In public life an apology is more closely tied to what's prudent vs what's justified.

He apologised because it was politically worthwhile to do so. Whether or not he also happens to think it was warranted, we've no way to know.

Jill I suspect you're naïve to the goings on of the HSE. You literally have whole families of people working there because of who they're related to.

You have to ask yourself why this was leaked to RTE, the Irish Times and the BBC.

Wombatman

silver2020 wrote: »

so throw the remaining doses in the bin then?

If you think really really hard, you might be able come up with another alternative to the bin or Master's Children options.