Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

greenbicycle

BTownB wrote: »

I'm not talking about event with hundreds and thousands of people ir any mass congregation. I'm talking about a few kids meeting up outside. i see it everywhere so it's definitely happening.

Yes All the studies showing risk of outdoor transmission is minimal are 'nonsense'. It's a scientific fact that you'd be very very unlucky to pick covid up outside.

but sure if you cant pick it up outside what would be the problem with people attending a concert or a match then?

just cause people meeting up is happening doesnt mean its right or safe

jrosen

People will always make a call and measure risk. If as an adult I can meet another for outside exercise there is a recognized benefit to it. The same applies to kids. We can’t expect to keep them inside for weeks and weeks on end with no social interaction.
I don’t support large groups being together but I do support trying to find ways to have them see a friend albeit in limited capacity

BTownB

greenbicycle wrote: »

but sure if you cant pick it up outside what would be the problem with people attending a concert or a match then?

just cause people meeting up is happening doesnt mean its right or safe

Mass congregation, food/drinks stalls, Toilets, queues, etc etc.

Also singers/performers/players would be in close contact.

Completely different scenario than teenagers outside.

greenbicycle

jrosen wrote: »

People will always make a call and measure risk. If as an adult I can meet another for outside exercise there is a recognized benefit to it. The same applies to kids. We can’t expect to keep them inside for weeks and weeks on end with no social interaction.
I don’t support large groups being together but I do support trying to find ways to have them see a friend albeit in limited capacity

but you are explicitly being asked not to do that for the greater good, why do you think it is okay for you to break the rules?

greenbicycle

BTownB wrote: »

Mass congregation, Toilets, queues, etc etc.

Also singers/performers/players would be in close contact.

Completely different scenario than teenagers outside.

no its not! its not that different at all! just because there is music playing or a match on in one scenario and nothing in the other but they are teenagers does not make the scenarios any different.

players and performers in close contact..... what are you even talking about? they cant be in close contact outside but teenagers can?

wirelessdude01

There is a reason why we are running an 800-900 cases a day average. People who have the attitude that ahh sure it's only a few kids meeting up, ahh sure it's only a few people meeting up at the playground, ahh sure it's only a few people meeting up and sitting on the wall opposite the coffee shop. It wouldn't be such an issue if they only ever met the same small group but I know and see people out walking, running and meeting up.with different groups of.people pretty much every day. The idea that all these things aren't part of the mix is the reason why we are where we are. Community and school are one and the same. The school community isn't some isolated little magical place. School is at the heart of many if not most communities in Ireland.

jrosen

greenbicycle wrote: »

but you are explicitly being asked not to do that for the greater good, why do you think it is okay for you to break the rules?

Your allowed meet another person for the purpose of exercise. So I allow my kids to do the same and meet a friend for a run or to shoot at the goal outside my house.
At this point my focus is on their health and well-being.

penny piper

jrosen wrote: »

People will always make a call and measure risk. If as an adult I can meet another for outside exercise there is a recognized benefit to it. The same applies to kids. We can’t expect to keep them inside for weeks and weeks on end with no social interaction.
I don’t support large groups being together but I do support trying to find ways to have them see a friend albeit in limited capacity

Don't you think it's right you should do it for other people's sake and not be so selfish? It's not going to be forever....but it will take alot longer if everyone had the same attitude as you....
I take it you want your child to go back to school? think of others then..

BTownB

greenbicycle wrote: »

no its not! its not that different at all! just because there is music playing or a match on in one scenario and nothing in the other but they are teenagers does not make the scenarios any different.

players and performers in close contact..... what are you even talking about? they cant be in close contact outside but teenagers can?

This is ridiculous now.

One of the first easing to restrictions that came last year and will come again, is that people from different households can meet up outside to socialise. It's considered low level on the risk scale.

Events wth hundreds or thousands of people will not be allowed for the forseeable future. NPHET obviously see a Massive difference between the two scenarios as do most people.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

Your allowed meet another person for the purpose of exercise. So I allow my kids to do the same and meet a friend for a run or to shoot at the goal outside my house.
At this point my focus is on their health and well-being.

Curious, do they only ever meet the same person for exercise?

penny piper

jrosen wrote: »

Your allowed meet another person for the purpose of exercise. So I allow my kids to do the same and meet a friend for a run or to shoot at the goal outside my house.
At this point my focus is on their health and well-being.

Well if everyone took your attitude there would be no quarantine.....

Stateofyou

BTownB wrote: »

This is ridiculous now.

One of the first easing of restrictions that came last year and will come again, is that people from different households can meet up outside to socialise. It's considered low level on the risk scale.

Events wth hundreds or thousands or people will not be allowed for the forseeable future. NPHET obviously see a Massive difference between the two scenarios as do most people.

Yeah, NPHET are the trained experts here, and they have obviously advised the government of these measures needed and in a level 5 lockdown. So those restrictions come from (for better or worse) the experts we have making recommendations. They're arguably far more informed and trained than anyone on here.

The tight restrictions we have now have come from NPHET, so not sure how you can argue the point you're trying to make.

wirelessdude01

BTownB wrote: »

This is ridiculous now.

One of the first easing of restrictions that came last year and will come again, is that people from different households can meet up outside to socialise. It's considered low level on the risk scale.

Events wth hundreds or thousands or people will not be allowed for the forseeable future. NPHET obviously see a Massive difference between the two scenarios as do most people.

Ask yourself why restrictions get eased, they get eased because the numbers get to an acceptable level. We are no where near that at present and with people ignoring things it's gonna take a lot longer to get to that point.

If we want certain things to resume then other things need to stop. We hear a lot about ohh sport for juveniles should be allowed restart. I agree it should but the conduct of a significant minority means that it will probably be a good while before it will be allowed.

greenbicycle

BTownB wrote: »

This is ridiculous now.

One of the first easing to restrictions that came last year and will come again, is that people from different households can meet up outside to socialise. It's considered low level on the risk scale.

Events wth hundreds or thousands of people will not be allowed for the forseeable future. NPHET obviously see a Massive difference between the two scenarios as do most people.

Yes when they ease restrictions you can gather (within guidelines) but we are being told not to do that so just dont!

my point is that outdoor transmission is of course possible. you are saying it isnt. that is the crux of this debate.

zeebre12

Eamonn Ryan said on RTE R1 today that he is pushing for children in with SEN in mainstream in 3rd to 6th to go back Monday week. How would this really work?

greenbicycle

JROSEN - "Your allowed meet another person for the purpose of exercise. So I allow my kids to do the same and meet a friend for a run or to shoot at the goal outside my house.
At this point my focus is on their health and well-being." (apologies i quoted the wrong post when I first wrote this)


so if your children are meeting just one other household that is fine. as per the guidelines.

but you need to be clear that, that is what you mean as your post before seemed to support children from several households meeting which is not fine.

and it is important to be very clear on this thread because by writing something you are justifying and defending other posts that are also proposing to break guidelines.

Locotastic

Stateofyou wrote: »

People thinking the rules don't apply to them or their kids is the reason we're still in this mess.

People have followed the rules for months and months, but the tide is turning for sure. Lot of people don't care for the 'advice' any more, it's human nature.

How anyone can expect parents to keep children and teens in their homes still now a year into it with no end in sight is baffling.

A lot more people are willing to take their chances now and no longer tow the line, leaky leaks from government don't help telling people what they can and can't do months ahead of time.

And then seeing people travelling into the country unfettered, but their kids can't go out for a walk with a friend??

BTownB

greenbicycle wrote: »

Yes when they ease restrictions you can gather (within guidelines) but we are being told not to do that so just dont!

my point is that outdoor transmission is of course possible. you are saying it isnt. that is the crux of this debate.

You said there is no difference between mass gatherings (concerts, sport occasions, etc) and teenagers meeting in small groups outside. There is obviously a massive difference and it's hysterical to suggest otherwise.

There wont be any mass outdoor events in 2021.

wirelessdude01

zeebre12 wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan said on RTE R1 today that he is pushing for children in with SEN in mainstream in 3rd to 6th to go back Monday week. How would this really work?

I know in our school that the plan we had come up with when they was previously mean to happen was for them to come in for two hours a day. When most parents realised that they would be in on their own without their peers the parents said it wasn't right.

Now think I read somewhere that Eamonn Ryan wants them in for full days. They get their support slots and supervised for the rest of the day.

Would be great for the mental well-being of a 6th class kid that they are the only kid in from from their class, singled out as being 'different' and also perhaps.habing to play with a 1st/2nd class kid on break as they are the nearest in age to them.

greenbicycle

Locotastic wrote: »

People have followed the rules for months and months, but the tide is turning for sure. Lot of people don't care for the 'advice' any more, it's human nature.

How anyone can expect parents to keep children and teens in their homes still now a year into it with no end in sight is baffling.

A lot more people are willing to take their chances now and no longer tow the line, leaky leaks from government don't help telling people what they can and can't do months ahead of time.

And then seeing people travelling into the country unfettered, but their kids can't go out for a walk with a friend??

And if all of that is true (and your right, it is happening) then schools should remain closed. The phrase "having your cake and eating it" is very true now.

My children have not been in a playground since last summer, they haven't seen other children since before Christmas.

downthemiddle

Locotastic wrote: »

How anyone can expect parents to keep children and teens in their homes still now a year into it with no end in sight is baffling.

Strangely, these are many of the same people who are complaining that schools are not open. They don't want to keep the rules themselves but don't see the relationship between their behaviour and schools being closed.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

People have followed the rules for months and months, but the tide is turning for sure. Lot of people don't care for the 'advice' any more, it's human nature.

How anyone can expect parents to keep children and teens in their homes still now a year into it with no end in sight is baffling.

Baffling it might be for some, but I have been doing it since last March and when you have immunocompromised family, it is not an issue for the children or the adults. Yes we miss friends but we would rather do this now and keep relatives safe.

Icyseanfitz

BTownB wrote: »

Risk of picking up covid outside is minimal. No one has been able to refute that.

In fact Cillian de Gascun said as much on Katie Hannom today.

again i'll ask for you for the "overwhelming" scientific links to prove that covid is a non risk in larger groups outdoors

Locotastic

greenbicycle wrote: »

And if all of that is true (and your right, it is happening) then schools should remain closed. The phrase "having your cake and eating it" is very true now.

My children have not been in a playground since last summer, they haven't seen other children since before Christmas.

Do you think that has impacted your children negatively and how much longer do you think they can sustain being socially isolated if schools don't open?

Do you remember being a teenager, think about everything they have sacrificed. I wouldn't begrudge them meeting up outdoors for a small bit of social normality.

If the schools and sports were open then their social needs would also be met to a degree. But they're not and the governments shoddy approach to communication means nobody knows when they will. So people throw their hands up and their resolve declines.

It's understandable.

wirelessdude01

downthemiddle wrote: »

Strangely, these are many of the same people who are complaining that schools are not open. They don't want to keep the rules themselves but don't see the relationship between their behaviour and schools being closed.

We have a family close to us in our estate. They constantly have people over. Both their kids qualify for the supplementary programme. They asked all of us in the estate who are teachers would we do it, everyone of us made our excuses for not being willing.

jrosen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Curious, do they only ever meet the same person for exercise?

Yes they do.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

Yes they do.

And the child that they meet, is your child the only other child that they meet?

downthemiddle

Locotastic wrote: »

Do you think that has impacted your children negatively and how much longer do you think they can sustain being socially isolated if schools don't open?

Do you remember being a teenager, think about everything they have sacrificed. I wouldn't begrudge them meeting up outdoors for a small bit of social normality.

If the schools and sports were open then their social needs would also be met to a degree. But they're not and the governments shoddy approach to communication means nobody knows when they will. So people throw their hands up and their resolve declines.

It's understandable.

Based on this post it is also understandable why schools are closed. People do not want to take responsibility for their actions. Blame others, it's much easier.

Icyseanfitz

the idea of bringing in mainstream SEN kids without their peers is so ****ing arse backwards stupid i cant even comprehend the thinking. Sitting in a school building all day with no friends, probably no normal classes, thinking why am in here when everyone else isnt, whats wrong with me, am i not normal (which out minister for SEN actually doesnt think they are btw). So stupid :mad:

greenbicycle

Locotastic wrote: »

Do you think that has impacted your children negatively and how much longer do you think they can sustain being socially isolated if schools don't open?

Do you remember being a teenager, think about everything they have sacrificed. I wouldn't begrudge them meeting up outdoors for a small bit of social normality.

If the schools and sports were open then their social needs would also be met to a degree. But they're not and the governments shoddy approach to communication means nobody knows when they will. So people throw their hands up and their resolve declines.

It's understandable.

It has impacted the whole country negatively! nobody is saying that they are happy with all of this.

but we all need to make those sacrifices and not be selfish. this is not about any one group of people (children, teenagers, old people, sick people, healthy people or disadvantaged people or parents or teachers) its about everyone together. so we cannot just think about mental health of children without sacrificing someone else's life elsewhere.

I get why people are struggling including children but none of this is happening for no reason. but its like anything else in life that is hard, you have to see why its happening, remind yourself of that and then just do the right thing.