Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Icyseanfitz

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Emma O'Kelly was just on Radio 1. Priority is going to given to LC obviously and then children with SEN in mainstream followed by Infants as they can't engage in remote learning. So who knows when we'll all be back.

the usual wishy washy, everything can happen or nothing can happen answer we all wanted

mloc123

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

"wider issue of schools reopening to possibly be discussed thursday"......... you'd think that might have been a good idea to do before announcing schools returning in a week and a bit ffs, jesus christ

Nothing has been announced...

Sammy2012

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

the usual wishy washy, everything can happen or nothing can happen answer we all wanted

Thats it basically they are saying nothing. Hence why they should say nothing until they actually have a plan and know what they are doing.

Icyseanfitz

mloc123 wrote: »

Nothing has been announced...

Ms Foley told her Cabinet colleagues today that it is her “strong preference” that all students get back to school in March. from the independant article on the last page.

You know what you are right, she has announced absolutely nothing, but this is and has been the quality of her "announcements" to date.

combat14

combat14 wrote: »

Norma Foley confirms March 1 as target date for start of phased school re-opening

https://m.independent.ie/news/norma-foley-confirms-march-1-as-target-date-for-start-of-phased-school-re-opening-40097931.html


all kids back starting from 1 march parents can put their feet up and have lie ins again lol

no trip to coffee shop though as sitting in them for 5 minutes to drink your tea not deemed safe

Because thats why parents would like their kids to return to school

PeterPan92

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I guess the questions should be, if it is to be phased, what phased approach is best?


Half classes, week on week off? (My preference)

Half classes, every second day?
Some classes in, some continue with home learning? How do you decide who comes in. There is an argument to be made for every class why it's the most important.



At any rate, it will only be phased until Easter. We'll all be back after that come hell or high water.

If its phased, 3 days/2 days would be preferable

zuutroy

combat14 wrote: »

all kids back starting from 1 march parents can put their feet up and have lie ins again lol

Because having to bring them to School for 9 am requires getting up later than not having to bring them anywhere for any time?

khalessi

Re phased, there has been mention of bringing in different primary year groups as different times possibly starting with AEN children in mainstream or by doing it with juniors first and working up slowly through the year groups.

But I think once all back we should be looking at 50% in 50% out along with mask for starters

mloc123

khalessi wrote: »

But I think once all back we should be looking at 50% in 50% out

How would that work? 50% do no work at all on alternative days... or you expect teachers to teach a full 5 day week and also prepare and handle remote work also? No way the unions would agree

Van.Bosch

khalessi wrote: »

Re phased, there has been mention of bringing in different primary year groups as different times possibly starting with AEN children in mainstream or by doing it with juniors first and working up slowly through the year groups.

But I think once all back we should be looking at 50% in 50% out along with mask for starters

Yeah, we still don’t know if phased means 50% in /50% out or a gradual build up to 100% starting with say JA/SA/1/2 on March 1st and 2/3/4/5 on March 8th.

My understanding was phased meant certain classes would go back full time and then other classes would join at a later date but who knows.

mloc123

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Yeah, we still don’t know if phased means 50% in /50% out or a gradual build up to 100% starting with say JA/SA/1/2 on March 1st and 2/3/4/5 on March 8th.

My understanding was phased meant certain classes would go back full time and then other classes would join at a later date but who knows.

It will be gradual build IMO. The objective is to keep movement low, 50% in/out will not achieve that.

jimmytwotimes 2013

pc7 wrote: »

5 weeks? It’ll be 5 months over the junior and senior infants

5 weeks this yr, sry. So juniors missed 5 wks, first yrs missed 5 wks, remaining 2nd level in total 8+5 and other primary 11+5?

jimmytwotimes 2013

mloc123 wrote: »

It will be gradual build IMO. The objective is to keep movement low, 50% in/out will not achieve that.

50% wud reduce bus capacity (all buses still full where we are). It wud make SD somewhat achievable in classroom. It has some merit as an idea.

Stateofyou

mloc123 wrote: »

It will be gradual build IMO. The objective is to keep movement low, 50% in/out will not achieve that.

Yes, but the objective also is, to avoid catching an airborne virus. The classrooms are small and class sizes are too large, and it isn't safe for so many (unmasked in primary) to be in one room for hours a day, with little or no ventilation in some circumstances.

What's being done about that?

https://www.independent.ie/news/norma-foley-confirms-march-1-as-target-date-for-start-of-phased-school-re-opening-40097931.html

This article posted earlier was a great read and very informative, but the one glaring obvious in all of that is that there isn't even a whisper about what additional changes need to happen in the schools. I read in there that TUI I think it was, was prepared to come on board with a March 1st date. Really? In light of the new variant...without requiring enhanced safety measures or ensuring a phased reopening includes reducing class sizes? It read to me like they just rolled over which is insane at this point. Or maybe / hopefully those talks are still to be had and agreed on. I hope so. Even the journo who wrote this can see it:

"When the public health advisory body, Nphet, advised against full scale reopening of schools in January, the aim was to ensure that one million pupils and teachers were not on the move and congregating together.

The public health landscape has improved considerably since then, but preventing infection in the face of the highly transmissible UK variant of Covid remains a major challenge."

Surely the new variants also change the risk some families can take as some may be medically vulnerable and on the face of it still need homeschooling.

Stateofyou

Ah here, you can't make it up...

"33 cases of ANOTHER new Covid variant are found in UK: Scientists identify strain linked to travel from Nigeria with the same mutation as South African and Brazilian versions that makes jabs 'slightly less effective"

mloc123

Stateofyou wrote: »

Surely the new variants also change the risk some families can take as some may be medically vulnerable and on the face of it still need homeschooling.

The *new variants* card is being over played...

There have been hundred, even thousands of variants and the only reason we know about the Kent one is because first of all Johnson used it to cover their terrible decision making in the UK and then Martin jumped on board also to blame it for the hugh xmas spike here... nothing at all do do with opening the pubs 3 weeks before christmas and letting thousands of people fly home from all over the world to have dinner with their granny.

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

Re phased, there has been mention of bringing in different primary year groups as different times possibly starting with AEN children in mainstream or by doing it with juniors first and working up slowly through the year groups.

But I think once all back we should be looking at 50% in 50% out along with mask for starters

Is there talk of 50 / 50 classes as you mention and masks for primary kids. Would this be week on week off or half a week in school or what? Any links ?

jrosen

There is merit in small groups but how would it work.
Primary wise, class split in 2 and each class do 2 days per week in school and the teacher uses the 5th day to prepare online schooling/homework for the students to do on their days they are at home?

Secondary I would imagine is harder to plan with the timetable. Buses are a big problem, our area was better towards the end but still most seats filled. They had said it could take up to 3 months to be at 50% but I never got the sense it was being worked on behind the scenes.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

There is merit in small groups but how would it work.
Primary wise, class split in 2 and each class do 2 days per week in school and the teacher uses the 5th day to prepare online schooling/homework for the students to do on their days they are at home?

Secondary I would imagine is harder to plan with the timetable. Buses are a big problem, our area was better towards the end but still most seats filled. They had said it could take up to 3 months to be at 50% but I never got the sense it was being worked on behind the scenes.

I don't think it is even a consideration when it comes to mainstream schools.

Stateofyou

mloc123 wrote: »

The *new variants* card is being over played...

There have been hundred, even thousands of variants and the only reason we know about the Kent one is because first of all Johnson used it to cover their terrible decision making in the UK and then Martin jumped on board also to blame it for the hugh xmas spike here... nothing at all do do with opening the pubs 3 weeks before christmas and letting thousands of people fly home from all over the world to have dinner with their granny.

Over played. Really. Better phone up the world leaders and their scientific advisors, we got the real one right here on boards! :pac:

mloc123

Stateofyou wrote: »

Over played. Really. Better phone up the world leaders and their scientific advisors, we got the real one right here! :pac:

The way people are talking here, you would think it is 5-6 times more transmisable. While NPHET had said that the new varient is resulting in 1 in 5 close contacts testing positive, compared to 1 in 6 before.

Edit: NPHET also came out and said, shortly after Martin had blamed the new varient on the huge xmas surge, that there was no indication it was the cause.

Stateofyou

mloc123 wrote: »

The way people are talking here, you would think it is 5-6 times more transmisable. While NPHET had said that the new varient is resulting in 1 in 5 close contacts testing positive, compared to 1 in 6 before.

Edit: NPHET also came out and said, shortly after Martin had blamed the new varient on the huge xmas surge, that there was no indication it was the cause.

I think the appropriate amount of concern has been shown in respect to new variants.

Have you a link to the NPHET claim? And anyway, who cares whether the variant was the one thing or not was the cause of xmas surge (sure how can it be, it was people gathering all over the country indoors.) What has that got to do with anything. Our government takes the variant into serious consideration, having referred it now many, many times. Surely they've been advised so by NPHET?

hesaidshesaid

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I don't think it is even a consideration when it comes to mainstream schools.

Agreed. The only education setting where 50% attendance has ever been contemplated by government to date is in the special schools. It's not even envisaged for the special classes in mainstream which are returning on Feb 22nd. So I'd be very surprised to see it in mainstream classes. Like others, I'm interpreting the term 'phased' as meaning certain classes in at a time. It looks like that will mean kids with additional needs in primary first, probably on March 1st, then Junior & Senior Infants (maybe a week later?) and so on up the class bands.

Despite new variants etc, I can't see any new measures being introduced in schools. As far as I can see they haven't introduced anything new in the special schools/special classes except better masks for SNAs, if schools can source them, and that's not a given.

As for ventilation, it appears that there's neither the will nor possibly the money to change anything about it in schools. So those classrooms with windows that can be opened will be opened. All the heat from the radiators, which are inevitably placed directly below the windows, will go straight out. The many classrooms with windows which don't open / can't be opened will just be as they always were. In primary, kids won't be wearing masks.

ETA: I don't think any of the above will matter because it feels like we're at a tipping point now between public health measures and mental health needs. Mental health needs of both kids and adults. Fatigue regarding public health measures is becoming more evident, even among the law-abiding IMO. One concern I would have is that re-opening schools is seen as a signal to many that things are 'back to normal'. I think if government wants to prioritise schools reopening, then they need to communicate very clearly that schools are the exception, otherwise we'll be looking at another spike.

mloc123

Stateofyou wrote: »

Our government takes the variant into serious consideration, having referred it now many, many times. Surely they've been advised so by NPHET?

Well there you go, you answered our own question. Both are aware of the new varient.. so whatever decision they make around schools will be based on this. If they are happy for them to open with no additional changes, they must not see it as a major concern.

Lillyfae

mloc123 wrote: »

The way people are talking here, you would think it is 5-6 times more transmisable. While NPHET had said that the new varient is resulting in 1 in 5 close contacts testing positive, compared to 1 in 6 before.

Edit: NPHET also came out and said, shortly after Martin had blamed the new varient on the huge xmas surge, that there was no indication it was the cause.

Off topic I know but I'm sick of hearing about the new "more transmissable" strains, especially when they always seemed to be raised as punctuation to numbers dropping- decrease in numbers, oh but "new strain", can't backtrack on emergency measures now. There's also a fair amount of hand wringing from the media about new strains, or possible (as yet non-existent!) new strains and it's very hard to separate the fact from the fiction at times.

combat14

if it is safe for schools why dont we just get on with it and open up the entire country like we did in december

hesaidshesaid

Imagine, this time last year, loads of Irish people were on ski trips in Italy. We hadn't a clue what was ahead. It's so hard to believe this is going on for almost a year.

wirelessdude01

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Imagine, this time last year, loads of Irish people were on ski trips in Italy. We hadn't a clue what was ahead. It's so hard to believe this is going on for almost a year.

This time last year I was away on holidays and bumped into three families from school.

Stateofyou

mloc123 wrote: »

Well there you go, you answered our own question. Both are aware of the new varient.. so whatever decision they make around schools will be based on this. If they are happy for them to open with no additional changes, they must not see it as a major concern.

You didn't answer the other questions.

They have LITERALLY said that keeping the schools closed and attempts to reopen must be dealt with properly in light of the new variants. What is already happening right now is in response to the new variant. This goes without saying, surely.

The government have disregarded NPHET before and considering Normas eagerness for an easy political win over consulting actual education and healthcare partners, I'm sure anyone can understand it's difficult to trust they have it in hand these days. Which they clearly don't. If they did, the unions would have never had to step in.

erydo

As an SET in mainstream primary school can someone please give me an example of how sending children with additional needs back first would work....an actual example of how the day might work... genuinely looking to get ideas