Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

appledrop

Millem wrote: »

I hear you, my own niece didn’t need to be tested because she sits at another table or “bubble”! She is in 1st class. Absolute nonsense and they can play with entire class in the yard and move freely around the room!

Oh I know Miller its a total joke. They love saying in these articles oh kids are in close contact more in creche thats why higher rates!

Absolute nonsense. In fact creches were safer in my opinion from Sep-Dec. My son in room with only 8-10 other children + never mixed with any other room inside or outside in playground.

Compare that with a Junior Infants class of 28 who as you said are all in one room and move around and play together as you would expect, they are 4/ 5 years old!

I want us all back in school but just want a commitment that if a case in a school it will be treated the same as in any other environment.

I have heard of a case where an SNA who sat with child all day wasn't classed as close contact because SNA wore a mask but not the child who actually was the one who had Covid!

Figure that one out!

Millem

appledrop wrote: »

Oh I know Miller its a total joke. They love saying in these articles oh kids are in close contact more in creche thats why higher rates!

Absolute nonsense. In fact creches were safer in my opinion from Sep-Dec. My son in room with only 8-10 other children + never mixed with any other room inside or outside in playground.

Compare that with a Junior Infants class of 28 who as you said are all in one room and move around and play together as you would expect, they are 4/ 5 years old!

I want us all back in school but just want a commitment that if a case in a school it will be treated the same as in any other environment.

I have heard of a case where an SNA who sat with child all day wasn't classed as close contact because SNA wore a mask but not the child who actually was the one who had Covid!

Figure that one out!

In my school we had a teacher who had no school close contacts because she had a mask on!! She got covid from a friend outside of school but was in school before she tested positive!! Rumours were flying around at the time. Staff or student weren’t officially informed but she told people herself. Her husband tested positive too so she did pass it on

deiseindublin

appledrop wrote: »

We are now up to 12.5% positivity rate in creches.

appledrop - was the article linked to here? I can't see it.

Millem

deiseindublin wrote: »

appledrop - was the article linked to here? I can't see it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-mass-testing-in-childcare-centres-reveals-12-5-positivity-rate-1.4478363?mode=amp

KerryConnor

That article is behind a paywall... Are these random mass tests? or are they close contacts?

appledrop wrote: »

We are now up to 12.5% positivity rate in creches.

Up from 10% from last 2 weeks.

From Aug-Dec creches average was only 5%.

No way school will remain at 3% positivity when they reopen unless we get numbers down 1st.

cant26

Really starting to struggle with homeschooling atm. My eldest is in first class in a gael scoil and he's a great little lad but it is getting harder and harder to keep him focused and do his obair! There is a serious amount every day between the weekly list we get emailed and the seesaw work.
I have a four year old and a newborn at home with me too. On dry days I prioritise being outside and we do crafts and we bake every week. I make sure the reading and writing is all done, spellings and tables too. My biggest struggle is the maths, funny as I work in finance!!! It's all new to him and I am not a good teacher apparently:(.
Will they be going over content when they get back to the classroom? I can see he is struggling with this lockdown more than any other, kind of like most people! I dont want to push him as he is only in first class but at the same time I dont want him going back and being at a disadvantage because his mum wasn't able to teach him fractions!!
I totally understand why we are all doing this but it's a hard slog, for everyone. The Sunday night fear has become very different!!

Szero

There is a lack of focus on the consequences of the fact that children will be last to be vaccinated.

There is obviously good reason - vaccines are not yet fully tested and approved for those aged under 16 and won't be till later this year.

It could be the August before 12-16 year olds are vaccinated.

This could cause increase restrictions on schools in the interim.

In Israel, the lockdown is likely to be lifted in the coming weeks but schools are likely to stay closed. This is the opposite order to what we are used too, with schools prioritised. The logic given is adults are mainly vaccinated, children are not yet vaccinated (vaccines for 12+ year olds are many months away), children are now making up 40% of cases and there is an increase in serious cases among children with the new variant.

khalessi

cant26 wrote: »

Really starting to struggle with homeschooling atm. My eldest is in first class in a gael scoil and he's a great little lad but it is getting harder and harder to keep him focused and do his obair! There is a serious amount every day between the weekly list we get emailed and the seesaw work.
!

I find this too. I feel they are trying to make up for being a gaelscoil. I remember in JI having an hours homework a night for kids. The weekly list Seesaw and Learning support work. piles up.

Then having the funeral and kids taking a few days off, the work has piled up.

So now I just think feck it. The only thing I want them to keep up with is Maths and anything else is a bonus. I am not going to catch up on the work they have to do so, if they can get through the maths I am happy.

The rest we will plough through at our own rate and some I wont bother with.

So honestly CANT26, if you can keep up with maths Irish English the rest can wait. More important to have a happy kid and not stressed parents.

Birdy

They will revise it cant26. Some children won't have engaged at all or very little. Everyone is doing the best they can and he'll be back in school before you know it. You sound like you're doing a great job.

BonsaiKitten

I don't know about the other primary teachers here but I've always felt that there are two stages with a bigger 'jump' in content than other primary classes - that's 1st and 5th class. So I'm not surprised that your son finds it hard, there's a lot to get through.

Personally I won't be going back over content, no. But I wouldn't stress about it too much. Just do what you can and if he does a bit extra catch up next year then so be it. We have a spiral curriculum so the topic will be revised again plus he's only what, 7? Plenty of time.

Also, sweets are the answer to teaching fractions Becomes surprisingly easy then!

honda boi

khalessi wrote: »

I find this too. I feel they are trying to make up for being a gaelscoil. I remember in JI having an hours homework a night for kids. The weekly list Seesaw and Learning support work. piles up.

Then having the funeral and kids taking a few days off, the work has piled up.

So now I just think feck it. The only thing I want them to keep up with is Maths and anything else is a bonus. I am not going to catch up on the work they have to do so, if they can get through the maths I am happy.

The rest we will plough through at our own rate and some I wont bother with.

So honestly CANT26, if you can keep up with maths Irish English the rest can wait. More important to have a happy kid and not stressed parents.

Same myself.
Have a 2nd class, JI and a pre schooler.
If I get through maths and English with them I'm happy!!!

mloc123

Logistically... *how* would the predicted grades for LC 2021 even work? No mocks took place this (they had this at least last year) and almost all of 5th year was lost for these students last year? I assume they had no end of year exams like normal. What would they base the grades on.... Junior cert from 2018/19?

wirelessdude01

mloc123 wrote: »

Logistically... *how* would the predicted grades for LC 2021 even work? No mocks took place this (they had this at least last year) and almost all of 5th year was lost for these students last year? I assume they had no end of year exams like normal. What would they base the grades on.... Junior cert from 2018/19?

Should ask that exact question to those students crying out for CG/PG this year.

am_zarathustra

mloc123 wrote: »

Logistically... *how* would the predicted grades for LC 2021 even work? No mocks took place this (they had this at least last year) and almost all of 5th year was lost for these students last year? I assume they had no end of year exams like normal. What would they base the grades on.... Junior cert from 2018/19?

This is the point most teachers are making. I had two LC classes last year, I have 2 again this year, different subjects. Last year I had 1 full year and almost 7 out of 9 months of the second year. Curriculums mostly done, many tests, lots of in class watching and checking, 3 sets of end of term exams plus mocks. I was very confident I could give a decent approximation of the student and definitely confident in my ranking, the kids would agree some having seen them after. This year I am not confident, if I was to predict there will be grades that are out, I just don't have the data, in a normal teaching structure that I need. I gave both classes the guts of a paper at Christmas and I corrected for the LC. I'm still not confident. Saying we should do something doesn't mean it's possible to do it well

The other issue is kids can be delusional, normal timea higher stakes exams weed this out and give students realistic expectations, I'd imagine a lot of kids have unrealistic expectations that won't be born out by either CG or an exam. Parents will also have notions to contend with, with so little to back decisions up, in small communities I'd imagine this will be awful(I teach in an urban school, and don't live near it)

Even some hybrid is more acceptable than predicted grades (they are not calculated, they barely were last year)

Dr. Em

KerryConnor wrote: »

That article is behind a paywall... Are these random mass tests? or are they close contacts?

They appear to be mass-testing due to close contacts. The HSE publication is available here: https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-schools-mass-testing-report.html

khalessi

Dr. Em wrote: »

They appear to be mass-testing due to close contacts. The HSE publication is available here: https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-schools-mass-testing-report.html

Rest of the world is starting to realise how contagious in young people b117 is. I wonder will all still be rosy in their mass testing.

Dr. Em

cant26 wrote: »

Really starting to struggle with homeschooling atm. My eldest is in first class in a gael scoil and he's a great little lad but it is getting harder and harder to keep him focused and do his obair! There is a serious amount every day between the weekly list we get emailed and the seesaw work.
I have a four year old and a newborn at home with me too. On dry days I prioritise being outside and we do crafts and we bake every week. I make sure the reading and writing is all done, spellings and tables too. My biggest struggle is the maths, funny as I work in finance!!! It's all new to him and I am not a good teacher apparently:(.
Will they be going over content when they get back to the classroom? I can see he is struggling with this lockdown more than any other, kind of like most people! I dont want to push him as he is only in first class but at the same time I dont want him going back and being at a disadvantage because his mum wasn't able to teach him fractions!!
I totally understand why we are all doing this but it's a hard slog, for everyone. The Sunday night fear has become very different!!

An Gúm and Cogg have some online maths resources in Irish:


https://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/fuinn/an-gum/mata-go-deo-leabhair-saothair/
https://www.cogg.ie/mata-3/


Go n-éirí leat!

PoolDude

am_zarathustra wrote: »

This is the point most teachers are making. I had two LC classes last year, I have 2 again this year, different subjects. Last year I had 1 full year and almost 7 out of 9 months of the second year. Curriculums mostly done, many tests, lots of in class watching and checking, 3 sets of end of term exams plus mocks. I was very confident I could give a decent approximation of the student and definitely confident in my ranking, the kids would agree some having seen them after. This year I am not confident, if I was to predict there will be grades that are out, I just don't have the data, in a normal teaching structure that I need. I gave both classes the guts of a paper at Christmas and I corrected for the LC. I'm still not confident. Saying we should do something doesn't mean it's possible to do it well

The other issue is kids can be delusional, normal timea higher stakes exams weed this out and give students realistic expectations, I'd imagine a lot of kids have unrealistic expectations that won't be born out by either CG or an exam. Parents will also have notions to contend with, with so little to back decisions up, in small communities I'd imagine this will be awful(I teach in an urban school, and don't live near it)

Even some hybrid is more acceptable than predicted grades (they are not calculated, they barely were last year)

Mocks are missing which is a challenge but >80% of students surveyed had completed all 3 sets of end of term exams and all verified there has been significantly more class exams and assignments (not the same as tests or mocks) which indicates there is data there to be used. Not ideal but it is there plus as others shared the basis of last years mechanism used JC and normalisation. I’m effecting learning from last year, using the data that is there and having the SEC managing it will enable them to find some recommended alternative.

It would be good to not have the results of that until mid May and then students still have a month to decide on sitting reformatted exam papers. I’d even suggest, like the honours maths bonus points, they could offer 15 bonus points if you sit 3 papers, 20 for 4 and 25 for 5 or more.

Stateofyou

KerryConnor wrote: »

That article is behind a paywall... Are these random mass tests? or are they close contacts?

Here ya go:

Covid-19: Mass testing in childcare centres reveals 12.5% positivity rate
Infection rate higher than in schools due to younger children not adhering to the rules

Positive Covid-19 cases from mass testing in childcare facilities stands at 12.5 per cent, according to latest Health Service Executive figures.

A total of 51 Covid-19 cases were detected in childcare facilities in the week up to January 30th. In total, 407 tests were carried out across 43 such centres with a positivity rate of 12.5 per cent. This is up slightly on the previous week’s 10 per cent and significantly above the average recorded since last August (5.7 per cent).

At present childcare facilities remain open for children of essential workers and vulnerable young.

The Government closed primary and secondary schools in early January due to surging infections and safety concerns from school-staff unions.

The pre-school (ECCE) programme has also been suspended during the Level 5 lockdown.

The positivity rate from mass testing has generally been higher in childcare facilities than in schools, in part due to difficulties with younger children adhering to social distancing and other measures.

During the week January 24th to 30th, health authorities detected a total of 51 positive Covid-19 cases from 407 tests across 43 childcare facilities. Of those positive cases, most (69 per cent) were among children while the remainder (31 per cent) were among staff.

Separately, the special education sector is set to reopen partially from this Thursday for the first time since the Christmas holidays

Special schools open on February 11th with 50 per cent student attendance, while special classes in mainstream primary schools are due to reopen fully to all pupils from February 22nd. But there is still no date agreed for when in-school teaching will resume for hundreds of thousands of children in mainstream primary classes.

When will schools reopen?

Sources involved in discussions say they believe primary schools will be in a position to reopen from early March, possibly Monday, March 1st.

The question of whether all classes will resume or whether there will be a phased return of year groups is still under discussion and will depend on the public health situation.

School staff unions are understood to be open to a full reopening if virus transmission rates are low. “If case numbers are low, we can be more ambitious with reopening,” said one source involved in talks.

Government sources and unions are hopeful that secondary schools will reopen on a phased basis from late February to mid-March. It is likely exam year groups – such as Leaving Certs – will be prioritised along with students with additional needs, followed by the remainder of secondary students.

However, a full reopening of secondary schools in one go may also be on the cards if virus transmission rates remain low. This is due to logistical hurdles facing schools in trying to organise timetables for in-person and remote teaching.

TTLF

PoolDude wrote: »

Mocks are missing which is a challenge but >80% of students surveyed had completed all 3 sets of end of term exams and all verified there has been significantly more class exams and assignments (not the same as tests or mocks) which indicates there is data there to be used. Not ideal but it is there plus as others shared the basis of last years mechanism used JC and normalisation. I’m effecting learning from last year, using the data that is there and having the SEC managing it will enable them to find some recommended alternative.

It would be good to not have the results of that until mid May and then students still have a month to decide on sitting reformatted exam papers. I’d even suggest, like the honours maths bonus points, they could offer 15 bonus points if you sit 3 papers, 20 for 4 and 25 for 5 or more.

As a 2021 LC student I would really hope for something that works out on both ends. We're really in a tough mess and due to my own fault, I know I'm not working as hard as I need to be even with a routine, I'm just a little lost if anything. I really miss school now, I miss having somewhat of a life. Seeing friends or people around me with their bf/gf's and here my gf and I doing the responsible thing and not seeing each other since late Dec... we'll be together 8 months in Feb and I think we've had about 2-3 months of "real" dating time.

But enough of that, sorry just wanted to vent a little there... I hope the LC is planned out in a way which will work. I know our school does Christmas "mocks" which we successfully sat, however mocks are up in the air currently and are due to take place on the 22nd if we return after midterm, which doesn't look likely to me. We were discussing the idea of mocks, and at this point they're not looking like it would work out, we apparently can't do them if PG are now on the table, our school is very confused, I'm confused and behind, and it's a really sticky situation to be in...

I pray to god this works out for the better, I thought 2020 was bad, but 2021 is the year that "keeps on giving" ... or taking in this case.

Treppen

PoolDude wrote: »

Mocks are missing which is a challenge but >80% of students surveyed had completed all 3 sets of end of term exams and all verified there has been significantly more class exams and assignments (not the same as tests or mocks) which indicates there is data there to be used. Not ideal but it is there plus as others shared the basis of last years mechanism used JC and normalisation. I’m effecting learning from last year, using the data that is there and having the SEC managing it will enable them to find some recommended alternative.

It would be good to not have the results of that until mid May and then students still have a month to decide on sitting reformatted exam papers. I’d even suggest, like the honours maths bonus points, they could offer 15 bonus points if you sit 3 papers, 20 for 4 and 25 for 5 or more.

Don't forget you'll be competing against students who have been hedging their bets since September.
Ring in sick, exam at home =100%
Classwork, copy someone else's = 100%
Teacher a tough grader, get mummy to complain and moved to a teacher who "grades it more fairly/recognises little Johnnies real potential".

Then of course there's the teachers who go shafted last year at their low 90s were pushed into H2.

Students say there not enough class time this year to base LC exams on... But yet there's enough class time and small exams to have teachers predict a Leaving Cert grade!!!

am_zarathustra

Treppen wrote: »

Don't forget you'll be competing against students who have been hedging their bets since September.
Ring in sick, exam at home =100%
Classwork, copy someone else's = 100%
Teacher a tough grader, get mummy to complain and moved to a teacher who "grades it more fairly/recognises little Johnnies real potential".

Then of course there's the teachers who go shafted last year at their low 90s were pushed into H2.

Students say there not enough class time this year to base LC exams on... But yet there's enough class time and small exams to have teachers predict a Leaving Cert grade!!!

This exact thing

Some people have been playing a game, and PG reward this in a way a blind test won't. Summer tests last year were sat at home, hardly exam conditions. Ao actually your working off Christmas tests from 5th, one exam from Christmas is 6th and class tests (wildly vary from teacher to teacher and are only testing short term, discrete memory) along with the fact I've physically seen them for just about 1 school year, the 4 months of this year were different from any other year.

I'd a few students downgraded, I was completely honest in my predictions but an algorithm decided their fate, not their own work. I did what the department asked and gave the most likely grade, this year I'd be inclined to give the grade they would get on their absolute best day assuming the paper only has the stuff they like, because so many other teachers did this. You will see 2/3/4 times the number of downgrades this year, I wonder how supportive parents and students will be of the "system" then!

And the hypocrisy of saying a few class tests etc is grand but they can't sit a modified exam, don't get me started.

Stateofyou

After we get through this debacle, I hope the leaving cert is abolished altogether before our smallies reach that point.

Mrsmum

Stateofyou wrote: »

After we get through this debacle, I hope the leaving cert is abolished altogether before our smallies reach that point.

If your smallies are very small, I'd say that's a very safe bet.

penny piper

So what is to happen if there is to be another lockdown before a leaving cert is held? It's not as though it wouldn't happen again...

Has Norma Foley thought of that?.....

Deeec

penny piper wrote: »

So what is to happen if there is to be another lockdown before a leaving cert is held? It's not as though it wouldn't happen again...

Has Norma Foley thought of that?.....

Going on Normas and DES previous performances they will assume there will be no further lockdowns and make no further plans re this happening.

PoolDude

am_zarathustra wrote: »

This exact thing

Some people have been playing a game, and PG reward this in a way a blind test won't. Summer tests last year were sat at home, hardly exam conditions. Ao actually your working off Christmas tests from 5th, one exam from Christmas is 6th and class tests (wildly vary from teacher to teacher and are only testing short term, discrete memory) along with the fact I've physically seen them for just about 1 school year, the 4 months of this year were different from any other year.

I'd a few students downgraded, I was completely honest in my predictions but an algorithm decided their fate, not their own work. I did what the department asked and gave the most likely grade, this year I'd be inclined to give the grade they would get on their absolute best day assuming the paper only has the stuff they like, because so many other teachers did this. You will see 2/3/4 times the number of downgrades this year, I wonder how supportive parents and students will be of the "system" then!

And the hypocrisy of saying a few class tests etc is grand but they can't sit a modified exam, don't get me started.

How modified can it be to cover all the variables we are hearing about and level of course coverage across different schools. I think there should be an exam that incorporates this as much as possible.

BUT I don't see it as hypocrisy to say there is data there (albeit not ideal v the mantra of there being no data) and to trust teachers to use their professional judgement based on first hand knowledge of the individuals. I'm just trying to be open minded, fair and balanced as too many show a lack of growth mindset and have jumped to one side or the other - there is no easy solution here.

Millem

Deeec wrote: »

Going on Normas and DES previous performances they will assume there will be no further lockdowns and make no further plans re this happening.

And don’t forget......schools are safe
Lol

khalessi

How apt

https://twitter.com/thelittlegreen6/status/1358711561527951360

deiseindublin

penny piper wrote: »

So what is to happen if there is to be another lockdown before a leaving cert is held? It's not as though it wouldn't happen again...

Has Norma Foley thought of that?.....

I don't think they care how valid the results are. If they get a set of results input from each school, they can throw them through an algorithm that's already paid for and shoot out LC 'result's. It will save them a fortune on distribution centres, invigilators, examiners, chiefs, advisors, input staff, admin etc etc.

They don't even have to enter the results - why wouldn't they want this? And at the end of it all, they are taking the teachers grades, the ones the teachers are not happy to give as they don't feel confident with such little data, but they will still have to sign off that they have done it correctly.

It's a no brainer for NF and DES.