Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Theboinkmaster

1 Feb - special needs
22 Feb - primary school
1 March - leaving cert
15 March - rest of secondary school

Very simple and methodical phasing of schools re-opening.

Cases will be down to 500 daily early Feb - we don't need to wait for ICU dramatic drop as we have lead time and indicators that we know when they will:

GP referrals - swabs - cases - hospitals - ICU

We know ICU will decrease, from the trends we're seeing in the first 4 items now, so no need to wait.

With this phasing as soon as GP referrals start increasing you can re-assess and stop or amend the later phases.

sekond

am_zarathustra wrote: »

There actually does seems to be a little chink of light today. I'd take being back with the LCs after midterm and phased return for the rest.

I'm not a parent but I wonder how they would feel about week on week off versus half days for students to keep number is classes low but to give some contact time and a bit of a break from home, would they have a preference?

Week on week off would definitely suit better in our house, especially for the secondary school student. She travels a fair bit to school, so she'd still be getting home late enough even from a half day (or having to leave early-ish if she was in the second half of the day). I'm not sure how I'd keep her focused if it was just assignments for the "week off", but we'd figure something.

Would probably work well for the primary school child too. Even better if it worked that I only had one at home to fight with at a time. I might even get my day job done during the actual day

CapriciousOne

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

1 Feb - special needs
22 Feb - primary school
1 March - leaving cert
15 March - rest of secondary school

Very simple and methodical phasing of schools re-opening.

Cases will be down to 500 daily early Feb - we don't need to wait for ICU dramatic drop as we have lead time and indicators that we know when they will:

GP referrals - swabs - cases - hospitals - ICU

We know ICU will decrease, from the trends we're seeing in the first 4 items now, so no need to wait.

With this phasing as soon as GP referrals start increasing you can re-assess and stop or amend the later phases.

There's not a hope in hell they'll give 5 days notice, with schools opening Monday.

Stateofyou

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

1 Feb - special needs
22 Feb - primary school
1 March - leaving cert
15 March - rest of secondary school

Very simple and methodical phasing of schools re-opening.

Cases will be down to 500 daily early Feb - we don't need to wait for ICU dramatic drop as we have lead time and indicators that we know when they will:

GP referrals - swabs - cases - hospitals - ICU

We know ICU will decrease, from the trends we're seeing in the first 4 items now, so no need to wait.

With this phasing as soon as GP referrals start increasing you can re-assess and stop or amend the later phases.

What medical or health modelling expertise do you have and what consulting with various experts have you done that leads you to post the above with the certainty you have on this thread.

Would also like a loan of that crystal ball you must have.

S Korea experiencing problem outbreaks in their schools

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0127/1192283-coronavirus-global/

Stateofyou

Stephen Donnelly on Claire Byrne talking about opening things up very gradually, and getting the health care system operational first.

"We've got to open up gradually, open up the priorities - get the health care system back up and running again, get the schools open, get the colleges open, get people back to work. But we're going to have to do it in a very careful way. There's no question about it. It can't be the case that on the 6th of March we just open everything back up and everyone socialises and mixes again. Because that would inevitably lead to another surge."

Theboinkmaster

CapriciousOne wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell they'll give 5 days notice, with schools opening Monday.

Not what will happen, what should happen IMO - it's a national disgrace we don't have our special needs kids in school.

wirelessdude01

CapriciousOne wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell they'll give 5 days notice, with schools opening Monday.

Two working days notice.

Not a hope.

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly on Claire Byrne talking about opening things up very gradually, and getting the health care system operational first.

"We've got to open up gradually, open up the priorities - get the health care system back up and running again, get the schools open, get the colleges open, get people back to work. But we're going to have to do it in a very careful way. There's no question about it. It can't be the case that on the 6th of March we just open everything back up and everyone socialises and mixes again. Because that would inevitably lead to another surge."

Highly doubt that colleges will be open this academic year.

Theboinkmaster

Stateofyou wrote: »

What medical or health modelling expertise do you have and what consulting with various experts have you done that leads you to post the above with the certainty you have on this thread.

Would also like a loan of that crystal ball you must have.

So on the boards.ie COVID forum only medical or scientific experts are allowed post and give opinions? Would make for a very empty forum...

I've called out my own opinion from my own intelligence, experience and knowledge like every other poster does.

You certainly don't need a crystal ball to see that hospital and ICU nos will dramatically reduce when cases have reduced by 80% since the surge that initially led to them being maxed out.

This thread as apposed to others (like main general thread and vaccine thread) seems all doom and gloom and full of posters who are determined not to let schools re-open. Along with the media making money of course...

Perfect example - www.rte.ie lead with main banner each day 6-7pm how many daily cases there were. Yesterday the first day of sub-1,000 cases did they keep that on banner? Of course not - banner was 3,000 deaths reached. Because only bad news makes money.

PeterPan92

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

1 Feb - special needs
22 Feb - primary school
1 March - leaving cert
15 March - rest of secondary school

Very simple and methodical phasing of schools re-opening.

Cases will be down to 500 daily early Feb - we don't need to wait for ICU dramatic drop as we have lead time and indicators that we know when they will:

GP referrals - swabs - cases - hospitals - ICU

We know ICU will decrease, from the trends we're seeing in the first 4 items now, so no need to wait.

With this phasing as soon as GP referrals start increasing you can re-assess and stop or amend the later phases.

I'd partially agree, but swap primary to March 1st and LC to February 22nd. An awful lot less doing LC, and with the governments insistence on proceeding with the traditional leaving cert I think they will prioritise those

Theboinkmaster

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Two working days notice.

Not a hope.

What about 3-4 weeks notice since they were meant to re-open.

It's not acceptable that we do not have a confirmed date agreed for special needs school return with all the positive metrics we now have.

Theboinkmaster

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I'd partially agree, but swap primary to March 1st and LC to February 22nd. An awful lot less doing LC, and with the governments insistence on proceeding with the traditional leaving cert I think they will prioritise those

Yes i agree, my rationale was primary school children being home are restricting some frontline staff from working as well as other essential workers plus smaller kids are much less able to work remotely.

Whereas LC students can work somewhat remotely and also more likely to spread COVID as well as socialise with eachother - so I think they're more risky to send back thant primary school.

But if you swapped around I wouldnt have a big issues, once there's a planned thought out phased re-opening that's sensible.

wirelessdude01

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

What about 3-4 weeks notice since they were meant to re-open.

It's not acceptable that we do not have a confirmed date agreed for special needs school return with all the positive metrics we now have.

What isn't acceptable is that there have been numerous attempts to ram through reopenings without actual engagement. Schools can have basic plans for various scenarios but putting actual meat on those plans once criteria have been agreed takes a little bit longer. It won't be that special classes and schools will be allowed to reopen with full capacity anyway. All these things take planning from both a home and school perspective.

wirelessdude01

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Yes i agree, my rationale was primary school children being home are restricting some frontline staff from working as well as other essential workers plus smaller kids are much less able to work remotely.

Whereas LC students can work somewhat remotely and also more likely to spread COVID as well as socialise with eachother - so I think they're more risky to send back thant primary school.

But if you swapped around I wouldnt have a big issues, once there's a planned thought out phased re-opening that's sensible.

Finally you have used the work planning or planned. That is the most important word in all this.

I firmly believe this week that the focus behind the scenes is on trying to put together a plan for the leaving cert and also trying to figure out how to present some form of assessment for the JC. Actual opening of schools is further down their list of priorities for the moment. Up to yesterday, there had been one meeting with INTO and Forsa since it all fell apart. The urgency has been taken out of it all.

Stateofyou

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

So on the boards.ie COVID forum only medical or scientific experts are allowed post and give opinions? Would make for a very empty forum...

I've called out my own opinion from my own intelligence, experience and knowledge like every other poster does.

You certainly don't need a crystal ball to see that hospital and ICU nos will dramatically reduce when cases have reduced by 80% since the surge that initially led to them being maxed out.

This thread as apposed to others (like main general thread and vaccine thread) seems all doom and gloom and full of posters who are determined not to let schools re-open. Along with the media making money of course...

Perfect example - www.rte.ie lead with main banner each day 6-7pm how many daily cases there were. Yesterday the first day of sub-1,000 cases did they keep that on banner? Of course not - banner was 3,000 deaths reached. Because only bad news makes money.

Except you didn't say "in my opinion" and you spoke in terms of certainty's.
This forum has been well busy enough without that going on, and isn't the forum for discussing daily cases and ICU numbers and media headlines anyway.

lulublue22

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Not what will happen, what should happen IMO - it's a national disgrace we don't have our special needs kids in school.

It’s a national disgrace that the area of special / additional needs has been grossly underfunded and under resourced for years. Waiting lists for vital services such as neps , CAMHS , s&l , OT are chronic. Respite for those most in need is like gold dust. Lets hope the outrage re schools reopening metamorphoses into outrage / concern / action in relation to the above and that the above issues are not once more left to parents and educators to agitate and fight for once schools reopen.

Theboinkmaster

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What isn't acceptable is that there have been numerous attempts to ram through reopenings without actual engagement. Schools can have basic plans for various scenarios but putting actual meat on those plans once criteria have been agreed takes a little bit longer. It won't be that special classes and schools will be allowed to reopen with full capacity anyway. All these things take planning from both a home and school perspective.

So why are we 4 weeks into the surge and special needs classes are not open, with no confirmed return date still?

billy_beckham

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Two working days notice.

Not a hope.

They were supposed to open a couple of times before now....not like they wouldn't be expecting it and be getting ready. Maybe not Monday, but 1 of the days next week is not unreasonable surely..

Theboinkmaster

Stateofyou wrote: »

Except you didn't say "in my opinion" and you spoke in terms of certainty's.
This forum has been well busy enough without that going on, and isn't the forum for discussing daily cases and ICU numbers and media headlines anyway.

It was obviously an opinion, like 90% of posts on this thread without any links in them.

wirelessdude01

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

So why are we 4 weeks into the surge and special needs classes are not open, with no confirmed return date still?

Maybe, just maybe the global pandemic might have a wee part to play in it.

Also maybe email the relevant people and ask them.

wirelessdude01

billy_beckham wrote: »

They were supposed to open a couple of times before now....not like they wouldn't be expecting it and be getting ready. Maybe not Monday, but 1 of the days next week is not unreasonable surely..

As I already said. All the people involved need time to plan and prepare.

Stateofyou

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

So why are we 4 weeks into the surge and special needs classes are not open, with no confirmed return date still?

Why are they not open 4 weeks into the surge? What?

And there is yet no confirmed date because NF and her jr messer have to now go to the table like reasonable adults and properly consult with those who actually work in this area so to have a successful and safe plan.

billy_beckham wrote: »

They were supposed to open a couple of times before now....not like they wouldn't be expecting it and be getting ready. Maybe not Monday, but 1 of the days next week is not unreasonable surely..

The requested safety measures need to be addressed and a proper plan in PARTNERSHIP with their education partners will take time. The arbitrary passage of time here means nothing.

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

It was obviously an opinion, like 90% of posts on this thread without any links in them.

People don't usually post in the manner you did, I disagree, and many posts have links or refer to quotes of leaders that were made, actually.

Theboinkmaster

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe the global pandemic might have a wee part to play in it.

Also maybe email the relevant people and ask them.

Global pandemic 11 months on? That's not an excuse.

Most other EU countries have their special needs classes open.

ELM327

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

So why are we 4 weeks into the surge and special needs classes are not open, with no confirmed return date still?

You might have heard of this thing called Covid 19?

Theboinkmaster

Stateofyou wrote: »

Why are they not open 4 weeks into the surge? What?

And there is yet no confirmed date because NF and her jr messer have to now go to the table like reasonable adults and properly consult with those who actually work in this area so to have a successful and safe plan.

The requested safety measures need to be addressed and a proper plan in PARTNERSHIP with their education partners will take time. The arbitrary passage of time here means nothing.

4 weeks into the surge what don't you understand? Meant to open 4 Jan which was almost 4 weeks ago and during a period of a surge in cases.

I don't accept the delay - it's not that complicated to organize 30,000 students back with the same process as before Xmas and now added in some additional safeguards.

It really is not complicated. Just to back like you were before Xmas.

Crèche workers are already back since 4 Jan. Why? Because if they don't work they don't get paid.

Special needs educators? Still getting paid, whilst off work.

Is there any difference in risk to a crèche worker v risk to special needs teacher? No there's actually less as special needs teacher would only have 1-3 kids in room with them.

Really honestly do you know what I'd do if I was a special needs educator right now? I'd contact the parents of my students and I'd pop on PPE and go to their homes Monday - Friday each day and make sure those kids got what they needed and did not regress.

Theboinkmaster

ELM327 wrote: »

You might have heard of this thing called Covid 19?

Yeah for 11 months, what's your point?

billy_beckham

Stateofyou wrote: »

The requested safety measures need to be addressed and a proper plan in PARTNERSHIP with their education partners will take time. The arbitrary passage of time here means nothing.

Please enlighten me, exactly what is being requested over and above what was already in place before Christmas??

Mad the way this place is full of teachers during the day:pac:

Locotastic

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As I already said. All the people involved need time to plan and prepare.

Plan and prepare what though? Basically as you were before Xmas holidays.

No need to delay things once cases are lower and everything else is back in order such as testing non symptomatic close contacts (all of which should be within the next week).

Stateofyou

Locotastic wrote: »

Plan and prepare what though? Basically as you were before Xmas holidays.

No need to delay things once cases are lower and everything else is back in order such as testing non symptomatic close contacts (all of which should be within the next week).

Plan and prepare what? This sounds like the mantra Norma Foley has been living by. How has that been working out.

Things as they were before Christmas holidays are not the same as what we're facing into now. Isn't that obvious?