Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

alroley

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What do you think it might be?

Honestly I think they might also leave 5th and 6th out for longer than thr likes of JI/SI. Know my 6th need minimal inout from home. Great group who just get on with it.

There is no sense in having 30 6th years packed into classrooms if they're getting calculated grades. They themselves have stated they do not feel safe.

If the decision is anything other than calculated grades with optional exam there will be outrage from students. I don't think norma will risk another u turn because of public backlash.

khalessi

Some suggestions

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1352446367969533952

This is the difference
https://twitter.com/tweepete/status/1351460915166801921

I think we need to be looking at heading this direction. IN US teachers bought scrubs off Amazon and mixed atched them so they didnt look uniform like

deiseindublin

DraftDodger wrote: »

Teachers will have to be vaccinated in able to make the environment safe. That's the bottom line. Children are less susceptible to the virus....

LCs aren't children though, they're 18+ adults in the majority.

Mrsmum

deiseindublin wrote: »

LCs aren't children though, they're 18+ adults in the majority.

Yes many teachers are only a few years older than their pupils. Not much difference between a fit 30 year old and a fit 18 year old. And if the thinking is so teachers don't bring it home to their families, obviously pupils have families too. That's not even mentioning either pupils with underlying health issues who are forced back into school as there would be then no remote teaching.

km79

Mrsmum wrote: »

Yes many teachers are only a few years older than their pupils. Not much difference between a fit 30 year old and a fit 18 year old. And if the thinking is so teachers don't bring it home to their families, obviously pupils have families too.

This is the problem with students being rock bottom Of the list
I’ve said this from day one
It creates a problem for the next school year
So if keeping schools open really is a priority for the govt then that vaccination list needs rejigging. And not just for teachers as you said .

History Queen

km79 wrote: »

Reading between the lines now on what they are saying on timelines it will be after mid term for all of it except maybe special schools /classes at primary level
I could be wrong though as History Queen said it has been hinted in TUI circles about LC return being imminent

Yup that was me, although I was talking to someone else since who said she hadn't got that impression at all from them. Person I originally spoke to was well placed within the union and I know publicly Martin Majorm has expressed the preference for a written exam, therefore you'd imagine they want LC students in front of teachers asap. Who knows at this stage?

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

This is the problem with students being rock bottom Of the list
I’ve said this from day one
It creates a problem for the next school year
So if keeping schools open really is a priority for the govt then that vaccination list needs rejigging. And not just for teachers as you said .

Prof Karina Butler was asked about this on the radio a few weeks ago about why not inject LC and she said there was no evidence that the injection prevented spread but it did lessen the effects if you got corona, hence injecting elderly before youth

rainbowtrout

Mrsmum wrote: »

It feels to me like NF and the Government will be basically saying to teachers which do you want - go back after the mid term with LC classes, even with demands for safety not being looked at all and in that case, no predictive grades or don't go back until all safety issues are looked at but then accept predictive grades. Not worded like that but that being more or less it. And of course special needs schools and pupils back too.

I don't think so. Even if Norma hasn't realised it, Micheál knows that the public are not buying the 'schools are safe' line anymore. It makes no odds to them if teachers aren't buying it, parents aren't, and there's more of them than teachers. They also know that predictive grades won't work this time round, for all the reasons outlined in earlier posts. The government actually have to come up with a proper plan this time.

Ultimately Norma can say whatever she wants but MM will have the final say.

am_zarathustra

Agreed. The government is still dealing with the cases from last year, the results will be shakier this year and definitely will lead to another raft of cases. Edit court cases

I think putting someone from the SEC to explains bell curving and the marking scheme alterations that happens every year would calm everyone down. Thankfully lc tend to have a better grasp of statistics than the general population

Mrsmum

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't think so. Even if Norma hasn't realised it, Micheál knows that the public are not buying the 'schools are safe' line anymore. It makes no odds to them if teachers aren't buying it, parents aren't, and there's more of them than teachers. They also know that predictive grades won't work this time round, for all the reasons outlined in earlier posts. The government actually have to come up with a proper plan this time.

Ultimately Norma can say whatever she wants but MM will have the final say.

I don't know. If school are open, parents will send their children in. Imo unions will say no before parents will. Now parents might agree with the unions but they will not be called upon to voice that and in fact if they were, the women I have seen on media lately from parenting platforms were very keen on returning to school for kids.
You know the ins and out of calculated grades more than I so I'll bow to your better knowledge on that one.

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

She really has ZERO shame.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/the-battle-to-get-back-into-classrooms-foley-wants-teachers-prioritised-for-vaccines-but-taoiseach-warns-schools-wont-fully-reopen-before-st-patricks-day-40003623.html

I know for a fact that during negotiwhen it was brought up that she said it wasn't an option and that she wouldn't bring it to the relevant people. Not suddenly when the rug has been pulled from underneath her and it looks like she might be on slippery political ground, suddenly the minister thinks she should suggest it. ZERO SHAME.

She didn't just think she should suggest it, now she claims to have pushed for it in December? Where's the Pinocchio emoji...

jimmytwotimes 2013

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't know. If school are open, parents will send their children in. Imo unions will say no before parents will. Now parents might agree with the unions but they will not be called upon to voice that and in fact if they were, the women I have seen on media lately from parenting platforms were very keen on returning to school for kids.
You know the ins and out of calculated grades more than I so I'll bow to your better knowledge on that one.

Student protests will become more vocal, I think, if a reopening plan is revealed. Not all LCs will be in a position to return if they're immunocompromised or if they live with somebody who is.

This happened last year around proposals for a delayed LC and July classes. Then Ciara O'Kelly, Thomas Byrne and a few others jumped the bandwagon and it was game over.

Stateofyou

DraftDodger wrote: »

Teachers will have to be vaccinated in able to make the environment safe. That's the bottom line. Children are less susceptible to the virus so they will be fine once distance is kept and masks are worn.

For a government who ran with the whole schools are our priority mantra putting teachers 11th on a list of priorities for vaccination was pretty stupid.

They didn't view teachers, SNA's school bus drivers etc.. as essential workers but yet made schools remaining open an essential priority. How thick can you get.

I thought I remembered something about the vaccine doesn't stop spread though? But it will protect those who have the jab to a high degree.

However with the new strains, children seem to be more susceptible, as is everyone else. More contagious AND more virulent, a dangerous combination. And I haven't seen masks for primary students discussed here yet. Last point there, social distancing isn't possible in most classrooms. Even using the hall in our school only gave just about 1m distance between the students. They still walk around the room, they have to be constantly reminded. They get in scuffles occasionally or stop to chat with each other. And outside they're on top of one another.

In my opinion we need enhanced safety measures (masks-maybe medical grade), air purifiers, maybe ventilation systems but certainly increased heating budgets) and I'll say it for the 100th time - hybrid remote learning systems. We can't easily increase the size of the classrooms so we should create a rotation system to reduce class sizes. If we could offer both remote and in-person learning, some families especially of higher risk (or nerves) will keep their children home full time. Others will go for the rotation. And perhaps those children with sn's can remain in FT if parents so choose.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

She really has ZERO shame.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/the-battle-to-get-back-into-classrooms-foley-wants-teachers-prioritised-for-vaccines-but-taoiseach-warns-schools-wont-fully-reopen-before-st-patricks-day-40003623.html

I know for a fact that during negotiwhen it was brought up that she said it wasn't an option and that she wouldn't bring it to the relevant people. Not suddenly when the rug has been pulled from underneath her and it looks like she might be on slippery political ground, suddenly the minister thinks she should suggest it. ZERO SHAME.

Are the O'Donovan brothers looking for a coach by any chance? Someone put in a word for Norma, will ye?

wirelessdude01

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Student protests will become more vocal, I think, if a reopening plan is revealed. Not all LCs will be in a position to return if they're immunocompromised or if they live with somebody who is.

This happened last year around proposals for a delayed LC and July classes. Then Ciara O'Kelly, Thomas Byrne and a few others jumped the bandwagon and it was game over.

Well the aul Doc had skin in the game. Then quickly changed her tune once she got what she wanted.

km79

http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1353300834394787841

Interesting
It is probably why it is suggested that primary will be going back before a lot of the secondary
Other way of looking at it is that Leaving Certs should be last not first to go back !

jimmytwotimes 2013

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well the aul Doc had skin in the game. Then quickly changed her tune once she got what she wanted.

Yep, 2 weeks later wanted primary schools open

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well the aul Doc had skin in the game. Then quickly changed her tune once she got what she wanted.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Yep, 2 weeks later wanted primary schools open

Oh God, remember that? Was so desperate and transparent. She was so anti-teacher and one day said that she had a sister who was a teacher. If that was true, she is even more of a cow than I had first thought.

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Oh God, remember that? Was so desperate and transparent. She was so anti-teacher and one day said that she had a sister who was a teacher. If that was true, she is even more of a cow than I had first thought.

DID NOT KNOW THAT.

Mrsmum

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Oh God, remember that? Was so desperate and transparent. She was so anti-teacher and one day said that she had a sister who was a teacher. If that was true, she is even more of a cow than I had first thought.

I have a feeling she got into a lot of trouble in school. She often pretty much boasts about being a wild child ( although must have been clever). Her sister was probably a good girl, her parent's favourite child !

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

DID NOT KNOW THAT.

Probably isn't true, but she said it.

It was in defense of herself because texters were calling her a teacher-hater and her response was that she didn't hate teachers, her sister is a teacher sure.

It stood out to me because I remember thinking 'Well you are one b1tch of a sister so'

greenbicycle

Wonder will they put primary back first (after AEN students) taking into account the fact that many teachers will require childcare before being able to get back to work. Start from the bottom up?

If LC go back in the first few tranches it will all be for optics, LC seems fairly doomed no matter what format it takes....

jimmytwotimes 2013

LCs going back isn't a public health decision

rainbowtrout

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't know. If school are open, parents will send their children in. Imo unions will say no before parents will. Now parents might agree with the unions but they will not be called upon to voice that and in fact if they were, the women I have seen on media lately from parenting platforms were very keen on returning to school for kids.
You know the ins and out of calculated grades more than I so I'll bow to your better knowledge on that one.

The unspoken factor in all of this is politicians' political careers. MM is not going to do something which is career suicide. Politicians in this country don't plan for the good of the country in 10 years time, they plan with one eye on the opinion polls and the next election.

Random sample

Isn’t it mad that we consider the leaving certs to be the first in need of going back when college students haven’t set foot in a classroom all year?

So last years leaving cert gained the ability to work effectively online over the summer.

I know there are a lot of issues with learning online, but I think we are underestimating our leaving certs.

I have a few students working from home this year anyway, so I’ve enjoyed interacting with them a bit more in the past couple of weeks. It suits them better to have others online too.

daheff

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well the aul Doc had skin in the game. Then quickly changed her tune once she got what she wanted.

She's a shock jock from g hook stable. Only interested in causing a bit of controversy to drum up attention.

Rosalita

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Oh God, remember that? Was so desperate and transparent. She was so anti-teacher and one day said that she had a sister who was a teacher. If that was true, she is even more of a cow than I had first thought.

I'm absolutely disgusted with her after reading her column in the Indo today. After talking about the mother and baby homes, she concludes by saying that we had the church to blame for abandoning children the last time, who do we blame for abandoning them now?! It's made very clear who she thinks should be blamed. I'm livid.

wirelessdude01

daheff wrote: »

She's a shock jock from g hook stable. Only interested in causing a bit of controversy to drum up attention.

Ran off twitter when the backlash from something she said backfired on her. Can't remember what it exactly was but was around Halloween.

wirelessdude01

Rosalita wrote: »

I'm absolutely disgusted with her after reading her column in the Indo today. After talking about the mother and baby homes, she concludes by saying that we had the church to blame for abandoning children the last time, who do we blame for abandoning them now?! It's made very clear who she thinks should be blamed. I'm livid.

Sindo or Info aren't brought into our house, neither of us pay for digital access either. We refuse to give any money to the Independent group as their stance is generally very anti public service and extremely anti teacher.

Also as a Mayo fan the whole Brolly saga comes into it as well but that is an altogether different story.

jimmytwotimes 2013

https://twitter.com/thisweekrte/status/1353329519415980033?s=19


It's beginning to look a lot like C̶h̶r̶i̶s̶t̶m̶a̶s̶ last year