Government flip flops / school closures

scrubs33

Rosita wrote: »

Indeed not. But telling the truth would at least provide some kind of moral framework around public policy. There are too many "by hook or by crook" moments. I suppose at least Foley's "full intention" is at least a linguistic nod to reality. Good sign she won't go far in politics.

I’ve been talking to some well connected party faithful locally and she is being talked about in terms of future leadership roles both within the party and at government level. Her standing is very high within FF.

Rosita

scrubs33 wrote: »

I’ve been talking to some well connected party faithful locally and she is being talked about in terms of future leadership roles both within the party and at government level. Her standing is very high within FF.

The comment was meant more as a reference to the nature of truth in politics rather than a genuine comment on her potential career but given that she was elected in the fifth seat of a five seat constituency and fell further behind with every count I wouldn't get carried away with notions of future leadership roles at government level.

SouthWesterly

Rosita wrote: »

The comment was meant more as a reference to the nature of truth in politics rather than a genuine comment on her potential career but given that she was elected in the fifth seat of a five seat constituency and fell further behind with every count I wouldn't get carried away with notions of future leadership roles at government level.

This is FF we're talking about. The party of.... Well smokes and daggers

Rosita

Random sample wrote: »

When they match the swab results which are released every afternoon.

They haven’t tried to hide the backlog. It has happened a few times and the information is freely available.

When it’s happened before it was because they were waiting to work out clusters before announcing figures.

But this can potentially create problems down the line. For example if we are at 5,000 cases per day on 10 January some people might raise an eyebrow at schools reopening the following day. But these might be cases that have not been recorded in time. We then have no way of knowing the true figure.

So while no doubt there are multitudinous procedural reasons (in reality probably nothing more complex than not enough staff) why figures are distorted it might be good if at least they were believable. In all the smoke and mirrors, bluffing, blatant lying and weasel words that have been in evidence over the past nine months at least we have had little reason to doubt the veracity of the figures. Until now.

Treppen

scrubs33 wrote: »

I’ve been talking to some well connected party faithful locally and she is being talked about in terms of future leadership roles both within the party and at government level. Her standing is very high within FF.

In fairness the bar is pretty low in FF.

kippy

Rosita wrote: »

But this can potentially create problems down the line. For example if we are at 5,000 cases per day on 10 January some people might raise an eyebrow at schools reopening the following day. But these might be cases that have not been recorded in time. We then have no way of knowing the true figure.

So while no doubt there are multitudinous procedural reasons (in reality probably nothing more complex than not enough staff) why figures are distorted it might be good if at least they were believable. In all the smoke and mirrors, bluffing, blatant lying and weasel words that have been in evidence over the past nine months at least we have had little reason to doubt the veracity of the figures. Until now.

Figures have been off before and are never a true indication of where things are at.......
In all fairness - this is the reason why we have been trying to keep the numbers low - at some point systems come under major pressure and break.

Rosita

kippy wrote: »

Figures have been off before and are never a true indication of where things are at.......
In all fairness - this is the reason why we have been trying to keep the numbers low - at some point systems come under major pressure and break.

The reason for keeping figures low is obvious but if they can't be believed anyway the significance of figures, high or low, is reduced.

If figures are being used as a means of communicating the impact of the virus at a given point in time then they have to be reliable. They are taking at the moment about 3,000 cases per day as a true figure but they are stating around 1,500/1,600. That's a discrepancy of 100% which is a gap of such magnitude at that level of figure not really catered for credibly by any explanation. It's just too much.

If they are not a "true indication" of where things are at then what have we to rely upon for a reliable reflection of reality - the depth of George Lee's frown?

lulublue22

kippy wrote: »

It amazes me that a lot of people don't get this.


I am not saying the government/department are great, many issues remain, but you simply cannot hammer them for being hazy on certain things.....

Hazy ?

Norma -
there will be no deviation to the standardised school year. ( due to deteriorating PH situation xmas hols extended)
Full Intention to return on 11th Jan

Minister of Justice - schools will reopen on the 11th Jan

Random minister on Newstalk - answered Q re school closures once cases hit 2500 a day.

MM - schools are safe are extending xmas hols to 11th Jan to give 10 clear nights of increased restrictions


Meanwhile in the background

Public Health

Dr T H - really bad place projections not good really need to hunker down- dodged q of schools. Change in contract tracing as unable to keep up and does not tell us anything new other than we are ****ed if we continue on this trajectory.

Paul Reid - Covid 19 rampant in community.

Colm Henry - new strain potential to do more harm. There are suggestions of more positive cases of this variant in children there is no suggestion it is more virulent.

Every battle has to have some cause worth fighting for. And surely education and healthcare should be the two things worth fighting for.

It would be more in the govs line to say we want to keep schools open but in light of the current situation we are unclear about how this will look. We are working very hard at dep level to draw up a number of contingency plans that will allow our children avail of education depending on the trajectory of the virus....

Then tell every minister to spout the same line whenever they are asked about schools.

Clear concise and to the point.

kippy

lulublue22 wrote: »

Hazy ?

Norma -
there will be no deviation to the standardised school year. ( due to deteriorating PH situation xmas hols extended)
Full Intention to return on 11th Jan

Minister of Justice - schools will reopen on the 11th Jan

Random minister on Newstalk - answered Q re school closures once cases hit 2500 a day.

MM - schools are safe are extending xmas hols to 11th Jan to give 10 clear nights of increased restrictions


Meanwhile in the background

Public Health

Dr T H - really bad place projections not good really need to hunker down- dodged q of schools. Change in contract tracing as unable to keep up and does not tell us anything new other than we are ****ed if we continue on this trajectory.

Paul Reid - Covid 19 rampant in community.

Colm Henry - new strain potential to do more harm. There are suggestions of more positive cases of this variant in children there is no suggestion it is more virulent.

Every battle has to have some cause worth fighting for. And surely education and healthcare should be the two things worth fighting for.

It would be more in the govs line to say we want to keep schools open but in light of the current situation we are unclear about how this will look. We are working very hard at dep level to draw up a number of contingency plans that will allow our children avail of education depending on the trajectory of the virus....

Then tell every minister to spout the same line whenever they are asked about schools.

Clear concise and to the point.

All well and good.
Then some people ask: When and for how long? Answer - we don't know - it depends on how successful the restrictions are in driving numbers down.
Watch the headlines.
Again - they cannot win.

lulublue22

kippy wrote: »

All well and good.
Then some people ask: When and for how long? Answer - we don't know - it depends on how successful the restrictions are in driving numbers down.
Watch the headlines.
Again - they cannot win.

They don’t have to win - they need to look like they are in charge and all ministers are on the same page , and they have the cop on to deviate in relation to schools if necessary. At this stage indicating a full return to school on the 11 Jan is not a good look. For all there grumbling and moaning people generally understand reason. It’s reasonable at this stage to indicate the situation is too fluid but contingency plans are being drawn up in case the situation deteriorates rather than a full intention to open schools on Jan 11th with our highest level of community transmission since the pandemic began.

It’s a fine line to be sure but people don’t appreciate becoming the sacrificial lamb and parents won’t be long changing their tune if this strain is as transmissible among children as it appears to be.

Leftwaffe

Minor thing but I’m supposed to have a CBA starting on Monday 11th. Things like that should have been completely thrown out at the beginning of the year. Don’t know what will happen now if we’re not back. Even if we are back, attendance will be woeful. Some job chasing up CBAs from students then.

lulublue22

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Minor thing but I’m supposed to have a CBA starting on Monday 11th. Things like that should have been completely thrown out at the beginning of the year. Don’t know what will happen now if we’re not back. Even if we are back, attendance will be woeful. Some job chasing up CBAs from students then.

I think the next few weeks will be messy whether we are back or not. The new contact tracing advice will impact attendance across the board. Think we need to keep head down and get on with it as best as we can really.

Leftwaffe

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think the next few weeks will be messy whether we are back or not. The new contact tracing advice will impact attendance across the board. Think we need to keep head down and get on with it as best as we can really.

Yeah I know, we can only do our job really. We’ve done very well up to now in my opinion

Bobtheman

scrubs33 wrote: »

I’ve been talking to some well connected party faithful locally and she is being talked about in terms of future leadership roles both within the party and at government level. Her standing is very high within FF.

It's way too early for her to be considered leadership material. I suspect you are kerry FF.
She got a ministry after only three months in the Dail. That's challenging for anybody. Whether she is talented or not is hard to tell. A lot of the public is bought over by a good media presence. Look at Leo- who was once a wunderkid but what radical things did he do??

Bobtheman

I think most people would prefer politicians to say "it's a very fluid situation. We would hope to open schools Jan 11th but we have to take note of the deteriorating situation"
Rather than pretending they know everything.
How do you know a politician is lying - their mouths are moving.
I'm usually quite sympathetic to the politicial class but not after these pathetic utterances.

scrubs33

Bobtheman wrote: »

It's way too early for her to be considered leadership material. I suspect you are kerry FF.
She got a ministry after only three months in the Dail. That's challenging for anybody. Whether she is talented or not is hard to tell. A lot of the public is bought over by a good media presence. Look at Leo- who was once a wunderkid but what radical things did he do??

I’ve been called a lot of things but that takes the biscuit:) Neither as it happens but your point about media presence is a good one: in this case not having a media presence is doing wonders for the Minister amongst rank and file party members. Anyway I’m wandering slightly off topic so back to waiting to see what happens before the 11th.

amacca

scrubs33 wrote: »

I’ve been called a lot of things but that takes the biscuit:) Neither as it happens but your point about media presence is a good one: in this case not having a media presence is doing wonders for the Minister amongst rank and file party members. Anyway I’m wandering slightly off topic so back to waiting to see what happens before the 11th.

Could be the dawn of a new strategy......say nothing/as little as possible, appear nowhere/as few places as possible and they can't pin anything on you ..... Taoiseach!

keoclassic

Random sample wrote: »

She didn’t say schools would reopen, she said it was their firm intention to open them.... I read that as it won’t happen.

SEC admin staff were still dealing with 2020 exams in December, I will put the delay on recruitment down to that.

I don’t see us going back on the 11th, but I’d like to know soon so I can start readjusting my January plans for online.

6-8th seems to be extra holidays, but private schools are teaching online to their timetables, so the divide continues to widen there.

Which private schools? Full private schools with no dept paid teachers are not governed by the actions of the dept of Ed, the likes of nord anglia is it?

Treppen

keoclassic wrote: »

Which private schools? Full private schools with no dept paid teachers are not governed by the actions of the dept of Ed, the likes of nord anglia is it?

Think he means "Voluntary Fee Charging".

Smacruairi

I haven't heard of any private school opening. Is the institute open for example

keoclassic

Treppen wrote: »

Think he means "Voluntary Fee Charging".

That's what I thought to be honest, but I'd love to see which ones are requesting this as I know of none! I cannot see how a schools request would override the dept on this issue, and I cannot see teachers ( the majority) that are dept paid making themselves available.

Random sample

Have the Des said online classes can’t take place? I missed that.

I’ve heard from a few people that their 6th year students have had emails telling them classes would be on. In other cases they have heard from individual teachers to say they would be providing optional classes.

Regardless of who is paying them, there would be plenty of teachers willing to comply with a request from management to provide online classes for those days.

wirelessdude01

amacca wrote: »

Could be the dawn of a new strategy......say nothing/as little as possible, appear nowhere/as few places as possible and they can't pin anything on you ..... Taoiseach!

And make your only media appearance for a few months with Seamus The Dog.

Rosita

Random sample wrote: »

Have the Des said online classes can’t take place? I missed that.

No, they just said that holidays were extended. I'd imagine a teacher could do online classes on Christmas day for all they care.

Treppen

Rosita wrote: »

No, they just said that holidays were extended. I'd imagine a teacher could do online classes on Christmas day for all they care.

DES are avoiding ever mentioning online classes like it's "a thing" as it will require adequate resourcing.

I think what you'll see is politicians blathering along the lines of teachers rising to the occasion and other nebulous buII****e.

Bobtheman

I was amazed that at no point did all teachers receive basic instructions to make sure all students were set up for online teaching. That schools should have clear policies etc.
We had a lack of direction in our own school so a missive from the Department would have helped.
I'm assuming that in the background - investment in IT did occur? Please please tell me this occurred?
This time I see this school closure going on until February. Not as long as before. Not something I want but I can't see a way around it. Can you??

maynooth_rules

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Minor thing but I’m supposed to have a CBA starting on Monday 11th. Things like that should have been completely thrown out at the beginning of the year. Don’t know what will happen now if we’re not back. Even if we are back, attendance will be woeful. Some job chasing up CBAs from students then.

It's a joke. I'm in a similar situation. CBAs are an utter joke at the best of times, but to expect them to carry on this year is idiotic. What exactly have all seconded JCT staff been doing since September?

Treppen

Bobtheman wrote: »

I was amazed that at no point did all teachers receive basic instructions to make sure all students were set up for online teaching. That schools should have clear policies etc.
We had a lack of direction in our own school so a missive from the Department would have helped.
I'm assuming that in the background - investment in IT did occur? Please please tell me this occurred?
This time I see this school closure going on until February. Not as long as before. Not something I want but I can't see a way around it. Can you??

Investment in IT occurred. But it was money which was already allocated, rebundled and then re-announced, nothing extra.

Treppen

maynooth_rules wrote: »

It's a joke. I'm in a similar situation. CBAs are an utter joke at the best of times, but to expect them to carry on this year is idiotic. What exactly have all seconded JCT staff been doing since September?

JCT have been redesigning Think, pair , Share.
Now it's called....Think.. but write it on a post-it and stick it on your forehead.

Pure genius.

Phasi Sahlburg is flying over as we speak.

scrubs33

maynooth_rules wrote: »

It's a joke. I'm in a similar situation. CBAs are an utter joke at the best of times, but to expect them to carry on this year is idiotic. What exactly have all seconded JCT staff been doing since September?

Ghost walks?