Is anyone paying tax?

thenightman

Antares35 wrote: »

Our local takeaway is cash only..I always just assumed it was to facilitate tax evasion tbh!

Lots of takeaways are also used for money laundering, another reason for cash only.

Dual wheels

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You would be stopping a lot of fraud.

Do it

Bobeagleburger

Wasn't the charge on card payments slashed recently enough? Not sure how much it is now tbh.

mulbot

lastusername wrote: »

I was wondering about this lately too. I am sure most tradies declare all (or most) of their income, but how would Revenue ever know if they did a job for a few hundred or a couple grand in cash and never declared it?

They wouldn't

relax carry on

All the little cash jobs, nixers etc add up. Just for some context, our shadow economy is worth about 11% of GDP. Consider the tax loss on missing 11% of GDP. The thing is internationally we aren't even that bad being below the OECD average. Tax evasion was/is a national pastime in some countries and was a lot worse in Ireland decades ago.

How the money is spent is a different argument. That's one you take to your local representatives of you want to do more than vent.

2lazytogetup

everyone has a choice.

1. They can become tradesman and pay little tax and figure out what their take home pay.
2. Or they can go white collar, get an office job, pay tax and figure out their take home pay.

most people choose an office job if they can.

I chose office and chose incorrectly. i was in with my gp just before the lockdown. i saw my cash in hand roofer use his medical card. I paid 60 yoyos prof fees. as i got into my beat up focus, he got into his top of the range Audi.

There are legitimate ways to reduce tax though. pension contributions, kids college fees etc.

2lazytogetup

relax carry on wrote: »

All the little cash jobs, boxers etc add up. Just for some context, our shadow economy is worth about 11% of GDP. Consider the tax loss on missing 11% of GDP. The thing is internationally we aren't even that bad being below the OECD average. Tax evasion was/is a national pastime in some countries and was a lot worse in Ireland decades ago.

How the money is spent is a different argument. That's one you take to your local representatives of you want to do more than vent.

local representatives know about this, so dont see the point in taking it to them.

Take teachers for example, they get cash in had for supervising after school study. thats thousands of teachers getting cash for an activity that is implemented by the department of education. Revenue know about all this carry on but do nothing.

wally1990

mulbot wrote: »

They wouldn't

Ah sure it's not like the Revenue have auditors or a whole division and staff dedicated to audit

Someone has never read the Tax Defaulters list and reasons for penalties and liabilities

Seamai

I was in a shop today and when I went to pay by card was told minimum card value was €10, I thought those days were gone, I've paid by card for hundreds of transactions since Covid started and have not once been told this no matter how small the transaction. I rarely use cash, using a card is more hygienic. I've also seen a few places that still only take cash, I'm always slightly suspicious of a business that insists on cash.

I use any money,i make off nixers to pay for a decent holiday,so it deosnt come out of my wages



Its hard enough to get paid anyway,upto half people simply wont/cant pay....frustrating as fcuk

Antares35

2lazytogetup wrote: »

everyone has a choice.

1. They can become tradesman and pay little tax and figure out what their take home pay.
2. Or they can go white collar, get an office job, pay tax and figure out their take home pay.

most people choose an office job if they can.

I chose office and chose incorrectly. i was in with my gp just before the lockdown. i saw my cash in hand roofer use his medical card. I paid 60 yoyos prof fees. as i got into my beat up focus, he got into his top of the range Audi.

There are legitimate ways to reduce tax though. pension contributions, kids college fees etc.

Sometimes a car isn't a good indicator of "success". A lot of people are driving around in flashy leased cars, sure why would you want to pay 300 quid a month for something that's going to depreciate as soon as you drive it home?

2lazytogetup

There has been more that one case that has come before a court where a Revenue official was done for tax evasion on a side business. Recall in one occasion the judge threw the book at him as he used his knowledge to avoid getting caught.

2lazytogetup

Antares35 wrote: »

Sometimes a car isn't a good indicator of "success". A lot of people are driving around in flashy leased cars, sure why would you want to pay 300 quid a month for something that's going to depreciate as soon as you drive it home?

because you have a big wallet stuffed with 50euro bills from cash in hand jobs and 300euro a month means nothing.

income tax isnt the only tax. tradesman out having the pints at the weekends. buying fancy cars, all include a tax contribution.

Maybe in future cash will be gone, and everyone will be forced to use card in which case tax fraud will be less rampant.

KiKi III

2lazytogetup wrote: »

There has been more that one case that has come before a court where a Revenue official was done for tax evasion on a side business. Recall in one occasion the judge threw the book at him as he used his knowledge to avoid getting caught.

Apparently not very successfully.

relax carry on

2lazytogetup wrote: »

There has been more that one case that has come before a court where a Revenue official was done for tax evasion on a side business. Recall in one occasion the judge threw the book at him as he used his knowledge to avoid getting caught.

That's interesting. Any links or names at all?

Kraftwerk

Tradesmen are mostly dishonest cowboys anyway. No surprise they'd do what they can to avoid paying their way in the world.

Antares35

2lazytogetup wrote: »

because you have a big wallet stuffed with 50euro bills from cash in hand jobs and 300euro a month means nothing.

income tax isnt the only tax. tradesman out having the pints at the weekends. buying fancy cars, all include a tax contribution.

Maybe in future cash will be gone, and everyone will be forced to use card in which case tax fraud will be less rampant.

Suppose. I just wouldn't buy a new car irrespective of how much money I have but that's just me. A car is function over form as far as I'm concerned. Then there's the likes of my loser brother, spends an annual wage on a car but still doesn't have his own place. Anyway, /rant/.

Agree re making cash obsolete, dirty feckin stuff anyway..don't know where it's been

2lazytogetup

relax carry on wrote: »

That's interesting. Any links or names at all?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20274577.html

its hard to search the internet as revenue commissioner offical and court give multiple legitimate results.

ive no doubt that revenue commissioner officials are by and large very reputable individuals doing their civic duty. But there is always going to be some rotten apples. some remarked earlier in the thread that risky offering a customer to pay in cash to avoid tax, and it could be a revenue commissioner official. my point is that, they might be happy to pay cash going on a couple of court cases where revenue commissioner employees themselves were done for tax evasion.

wally1990

Antares35 wrote: »

Suppose. I just wouldn't buy a new car irrespective of how much money I have but that's just me. A car is function over form as far as I'm concerned. Then there's the likes of my loser brother, spends an annual wage on a car but still doesn't have his own place. Anyway, /rant/.

Agree re making cash obsolete, dirty feckin stuff anyway..don't know where it's been

Up nostrils



"

Forensic scientists have said that around 80% of all British banknotes contain traces of drugs. A 1999 study found even higher levels of contamination in the London area; of 500 notes tested, only four had no traces of cocaine.
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Contam...
Contaminated currency - Wikipedia"

Mimon

relax carry on wrote: »

All the little cash jobs, boxers etc add up. Just for some context, our shadow economy is worth about 11% of GDP. Consider the tax loss on missing 11% of GDP. The thing is internationally we aren't even that bad being below the OECD average. Tax evasion was/is a national pastime in some countries and was a lot worse in Ireland decades ago.

How the money is spent is a different argument. That's one you take to your local representatives of you want to do more than vent.

It is a huge factor in people justifying avoiding tax. Most people wouldn't mind paying more tax if it guaranteed better services. The social welfare system has become a support for non contributors instead of being a safety net for contributors.

For example I am off work since last week because of a serious enough injury but I don't get any illness benefit until after 6 days! Why should I not got get this benefit from day one when I have paid PRSI for 20+ years?

Why can't I get a few free doctors visits due to having paid PAYE,USC and PRSI for years. I have to pay a doctor 60 euro to basically sign certs for me when my income will be 205 euro this week, great!

Also why do I only get 205 euro, the same as someone who has never worked? The system is not designed to help contributors and people like me will never get as much as we put in so can't blame contributors trying to minimise the amount they pay.

2lazytogetup

the only comfort i have is that the views of some people in this thread (esp Kraftwerk abovr) is that we do want to pay our way in this world. nurses, teachers, the gardai have to be paid from our taxes, and its nice to know im contributing to society.

i feel better paying tax so they can help people. i dont need a nicer car or a more expensive holiday.

Pauliedragon

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I know one neighbour who's a stickler for rules who refuses to pay trades people in cash. It's cheque or bank transfer.

More should do the same.

Stihl waters

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Funny thing is people think they're getting a discount when they ask how much for cash.

They aren't.

All these lads overprice to begin with, then the customer thinks they are getting it cheap because its cash.

I priced a job today for 2 teachers, the job came to €3800 including vat, I just said €3800 not mentioning the vat, straight away the wife says to me will you do a cash price and I told her that's the cash price and a price for through the books was an extra 25%, 13.5% vat and a the rest for going through the books, all I'll do when I get paid is lodge the cash, write the invoice and keep it, as long as some people think they're getting a bargain they're happy

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

Yes, it is, which I why I said "by the courts" ie one has to get it enforced by the courts in the event of default.

Antares35 wrote: »

Child maintenance can be and is means tested and wages garnished ("deducted at source") by the courts.

The second quote is what you said. In full. Nothing about enforcement in the event of default.

I then explained what is involved with getting an attachment of earnings order. Its not a simple or straightforward, or even routine process.

So no, the courts do not means test and then garnish wages ("deducted at source") in this country, which is what you said they did. As if it was routine.

Mores the pity, it would be an absolutely wonderful development if they did means test and garnish wages at source.

I should also have mentioned that it is not possible to get an Attachment of Earnings Order on anyone who is self-employed.

dxhound2005

wally1990 wrote: »

Up nostrils



"

Forensic scientists have said that around 80% of all British banknotes contain traces of drugs. A 1999 study found even higher levels of contamination in the London area; of 500 notes tested, only four had no traces of cocaine.
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Contam...
Contaminated currency - Wikipedia"

Plastic cards are even dirtier.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-germ-study/

TuringBot47

2lazytogetup wrote: »

because you have a big wallet stuffed with 50euro bills from cash in hand jobs

Fairly pricey hand jobs at €50

TuringBot47

Anyways, the sooner we convert completely to a cashless society the better.

Most law abiding people will sacrifice privacy for a safer/fairer society.

Antares35

Mimon wrote: »

It is a huge factor in people justifying avoiding tax. Most people wouldn't mind paying more tax if it guaranteed better services. The social welfare system has become a support for non contributors instead of being a safety net for contributors.

For example I am off work since last week because of a serious enough injury but I don't get any illness benefit until after 6 days! Why should I not got get this benefit from day one when I have paid PRSI for 20+ years?

Why can't I get a few free doctors visits due to having paid PAYE,USC and PRSI for years. I have to pay a doctor 60 euro to basically sign certs for me when my income will be 205 euro this week, great!

Also why do I only get 205 euro, the same as someone who has never worked? The system is not designed to help contributors and people like me will never get as much as we put in so can't blame contributors trying to minimise the amount they pay.

I agree with this, it should be linked to contributions. I believe it was at one time hence "pay related" social insurance.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The second quote is what you said. In full. Nothing about enforcement in the event of default.

I then explained what is involved with getting an attachment of earnings order. Its not a simple or straightforward, or even routine process.

So no, the courts do not means test and then garnish wages ("deducted at source") in this country, which is what you said they did. As if it was routine.

Mores the pity, it would be an absolutely wonderful development if they did means test and garnish wages at source.

I should also have mentioned that it is not possible to get an Attachment of Earnings Order on anyone who is self-employed.

Yes, they can and do, which is what I said. I didn't say it was routine. The courts option is there for anyone who needs to avail of it. Your mental gymnastics do not change that. Enforcement in the event of default is covered by my point about the courts. Do you want me to list every which mechanism by which relief can be availed of? Get off outta that if you need legal advice this isn't the place

partyguinness

thenightman wrote: »

Lots of takeaways are also used for money laundering, another reason for cash only.

It's amazing how many times I have heard the Turkish barber I sometimes go to say "Oh the card machine is broken. Cash only"...:rolleyes:

I have seen a few takeaways recently with the same- sign on the door "Cash only". This is in England.