Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713346#Comment_117713346

I think if the fuel is in the car, they should be allowed do whatever is required to get it out.

I don't believe there is a requirement to have a functioning car after gp so if a collapse of some system or component is preventing the fuel being drawn off, why not let the team dismantle while supervised to get the fuel.

18 points involved for AM so its a pretty big deal

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714194#Comment_117714194

AM had mentioned during the week was that because of the red flag, everything was delayed and the mechanics had already left to catch their flight home… so there was no one there from AM assisting the FIA in getting the fuel out.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713510#Comment_117713510

They didn't ask anything in earnest. And I still don't know what point they were making.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714330#Comment_117714330

Yeah that's ture but it seems the pump used to get the fuel out failed. And they can't replace the pump and the mechanics wouldn't have been allowed to do anything differently if thy were there. They might have been able to make a more comvincing case to be allowed to break the rules, but that's about it.

They're still back in the same position of needing the FIA to let them break the rules to replace the part. And we're back in the same position of having to wait to find out the result of the legal dispute.

If they want to change the rule then they should change the rule but in the meantime, they should just implement the rules.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714402#Comment_117714402

I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question.

I asked if you thought Alonso would have continued to defend that well if the tyres were younger. As it stands, yes, would be the obvious answer.

Then, I had a thought, I asked if it was a fair thought, you launched into a tirade about hyperbole and underhanded arguments. You could have just said "yes he drove well but these factors also had a impact yadda yadda".

Anyway, you found something in it that wasn't intentionally there and answered as you did. Nothing more to add.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714949#Comment_117714949

The tyres question was rhetorical, wasn't is?

I did say that yes he drove well but these factors also had an impact - the track is known to be very hard to overtake. I'm pretty sure all this information was in my very first response to your post. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. No need to be defensive. I said in the first response "It was a good performance by Alonso, no need to resort to hyperbole. It only weakens the point."

You say I read something more into it? Where did you get anything about underhanded argument? You spoil the fact that Alonso did a good job by overegging the pudding, guilding the lily, using hyperbole.

flazio

This is seriously impressive from Vettel.

https://youtu.be/StAi_V99uxw

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714402#Comment_117714402

If you didn't understand the point they were making then why did yo respond, and respond in such an aggressive manner?

It is uncalled for and to be honest, belittles the whole F1 forum

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117718851#Comment_117718851

Aggressive manner? Ah here. I answered the first question about fresher tyres and pointed out that Hubgary is notoriously difficult to overtake so it's not all to the driver's credit for keeping a faster car behind, and also acknowledged that Alonso did well to keep him behind for so long.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117720065#Comment_117720065

Also good to point out that Alonso is probably the best in the field at managing tyre grip limits. Even his championship winning car was designed to purposely lose grip on the front tyres in turns as demonstrated by Scott Mansel

El_Duderino 09

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-sets-date-for-aston-martins-disqualification-hearing/6643036/amp/

AM's disqualification hearing is set for Monday. That will determine whether they can fir a new pump to get the additional 700ml needed for the sample.

If successful, AM will have the chance to try to get the fuel and depending on whether that's successful, we'll then hopefully get to know the result.

The car is in FIA custody and is currently in France.

MadYaker

Does anyone else find all this slightly ridiculous? How can it be a debate, the required amount is either in the tank or it isn’t. How hard can it be to measure the amount of fuel left in a tank?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727020#Comment_117727020

There's a procedure for getting the fuel out of the tank. So the question should be whether they can provide a sample or not, - not whether it's in the tank or not. They can't provide the sample because the pump broke and they can't replace it under the current rules. No sample = disqualification and that should be the end or it

recyclebin

Aston Martin and their appeals along with Red Bull complaining about the budget are just mind games trying to influence future FIA decisions.

They are both playing the long game to put the FIA on notice that they will question every decision publically.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727085#Comment_117727085

But wasn’t it the FIA who couldn’t get a sample out because the FIA mandated pump broke?

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117716856#Comment_117716856

Surprised how shit a lot of them were.

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727085#Comment_117727085

So Vettel is potentially going to get disqualified because a pump broke? Utterly ridiculous. Who comes up with these rules and does anyone know what the purpose of this particular rule was in the first place?

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728102#Comment_117728102

I think they are dead right to be honest because the people making these rules are clearly morons.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728290#Comment_117728290

I don't know who mandated the pump. AM's pump broke and AM failed to provide a sample.

Bit of a stretch to suggest it's all on the FIA.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729399#Comment_117729399

The purpose of the test is to make sure the fuel used on the race complies with the regulations. The procedure for getting the fuel put is fairly simple, the FIA pumps a sample of fuel from the car and tests it to male sure the fuel is compliant. No fuel means no test and disqualification. It's a decades old rule. Not Vettel's fault but he has been disqualified pending the hearing.

Any news on that hearing?

MadYaker

Not as far as I can find out, thanks for explanation. Though I did hear that a litre is required for the test and only around a third of a litre could be pumped out after the race (not sure who is responsible for the pumping) no idea if that was to do with a faulty pump or not. Seems to me that the FIA tried to collect the relevant amount and weren't able to do so yet Aston Martin are adamant that required amount was in the tank which is where my confusion stemmed from, I just don't understand how there can be a debate about how much fuel is in the tank, the required amount is either there or it isn't. The whole thing seems to hinge on some technical detail about how the fuel sample should be removed from the tank. They'll probably disqualify him because they're a shower of pricks.

Top Dog

Aston Martin appeal dismissed. DQ for Seb - https://www.planetf1.com/news/sebastian-vettel-disqualification-right-to-review-dismissal/

El_Duderino 09

Fine. Pity for Seb to be disqualified after such a lucky result. But it dragged out too long and now it's over.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729389#Comment_117729389

Kimi was hilarious. He did not ever remember what year he won it in that's bad and totally forgot about the 4 years that Vettel won it.

recyclebin

From their failed appeal to the stewards for the right of review:

After the hearing the FIA revealed that Aston Martin had discovered that a faulty fuel pump meant a ‘significant amount of fuel was inadvertently discharged from the fuel cell of Car 5’, meaning FIA personnel could only extract 0.3 litres.

So the fuel was discharged somewhere and is not still in the tank. That's on Aston Martin so it's an open and shut case.

El_Duderino 09

Motorsport.com: Ferrari to unleash ‘significant’ F1 engine upgrade.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-f1-engine-upgrade-significant/6645094/amp/

Ferrari able to use some jiggery-pokery to bring upgraded engine components later this year. This isn't the usual upgrades for reliability, this seems to be new performance components that they can count as part of the 2021 engine but they haven't introduced yet.

I don't pretend to understand how it all works but hopefully for Ferrari, they can add soon extra speed and become more competitive when they introduce that new engine.

MadYaker

Well if the fuel isn’t in the tank then that’s the end of it. Pity for seb.

Cookie_Monster

The fuel thing is another insanely stupid F1 rule. Test the fuel at random points over the weekend before it goes in the car... Who cares if there is none left.

Plenty of other series where cars can run out on the last lap and coast a few corners to the flag without issue.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736411#Comment_117736411

Disagree. They take your approach when testing tyre pressure, out of necessity, and it lead to teams arranging to be compliant before the race (when the tests took place), but making sure to run at lower pressure levels during the race to gain an advantage). The only way to be sure you're testing the fuel that was used in the race is to test the fuel that's in the tank at the end of the race.

eviltimeban

Surely the FIA can ration the amount of fuel a team can use? Like, here's your allotted barrel of fuel for the weekend, do with it as you please. Or even just for race day. That way all teams have the same amount, and there's no need to have to extract fuel from the tank at the end.