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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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This is the official Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread

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El_Duderino 09

Vicxas wrote: »

Im assuming its gonna be some time before we see any feedback on Pirelli's performance last weekend

Yeah I'd say you're right, it's unlikely they will ever publicly admit it was all their fault, even if they find out it was all their fault. There's no need for them to publicly admit it anyway. All they need to do is get to the bottom of whatever caused the failures and fix it if i was their own fault, or suggest the solutions if it was a sharp kerb or whatever else.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah no. Moving to anywhere, from Mercedes, is a step backwards (possible exception of Red Bull this year). He has had the best car (by some margin) for the last few years. Anywhere else would be a step backwards from that situation, particularly when you look at the available seats. He could challenge for wins over the last few years and none of the available seats will afford him that opportunity.

Where are the available seats for next year? Haas, Alfa, Williams, They're all a step back unless you view explicit no.1 status as a promotion.

I see what you mean. I agree that any car aside from a Merc or RB is a step back in terms of competitiveness. He could take a shot like Vettel did moving to AM, although Bottas doesn't have high stock like he did.

I would like to see him stick around on the grid, he has speed but he has his wings clipped where he is right now. Williams might work, swap him for Russell. That sounds like the logical move for all parties.

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I see what you mean. I agree that any car aside from a Merc or RB is a step back in terms of competitiveness. He could take a shot like Vettel did moving to AM, although Bottas doesn't have high stock like he did.

I would like to see him stick around on the grid, he has speed but he has his wings clipped where he is right now. Williams might work, swap him for Russell. That sounds like the logical move for all parties.

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

eviltimeban

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really doubt that's true. I'd say he's acutely aware of the situation.

Well maybe more he feels he *should* be equal. I believe he thinks, like all drivers probably do about themselves, that he's as good as Hamilton.

duploelabs

eviltimeban wrote: »

Well maybe more he feels he *should* be equal. I believe he thinks, like all drivers probably do about themselves, that he's as good as Hamilton.

You believe he thinks???

Well that's me convinced

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

Certainly not now anyway after Vettel got them there best ever podium position although Vettel and Bottas together would be interesting and Lance could go to Mercedes or to William's and Russell to Mercedes.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

Certainly not now anyway after Vettel got them there best ever podium position although Vettel and Bottas together would be interesting and Lance could go to Mercedes or to William's and Russell to Mercedes.

It would be interesting but I don't see lance going anywhere.

I also don't really buy into the hype about Aston's best ever result. It's technically ture but not really instructive in reality. Aston is just a sponsor. The car has nothing to do with AM except the colour scheme. Perez won a race in that car last year. But Vettel certainly had a good result last weekend.

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote: »

Well maybe more he feels he *should* be equal. I believe he thinks, like all drivers probably do about themselves, that he's as good as Hamilton.

If his contract says he should be treated the same as Hamilton then he would be absolutely correct to think he should be treated equally. I don't know what his contract says BTW.

Regarding how drivers view themselves, I remember Coulthard saying he was offered a ferrari drive instead of Irvine and he refused because they wanted him as no.2 to Schumacher. He said he believed he could beat Michael and joked that that was pretty clearly not as fast as Michael. I wondered if he realised that at the time or it just became clear to him in later years after he retired.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

Sorry, just to clarify. I didn't mean Bottas would go to AM, just that he would do a move like Vettel in leaving a big team for a smaller one in the hopes of being happier and being a better fit.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It would be interesting but I don't see lance going anywhere.

I also don't really buy into the hype about Aston's best ever result. It's technically ture but not really instructive in reality. Aston is just a sponsor. The car has nothing to do with AM except the colour scheme. Perez won a race in that car last year. But Vettel certainly had a good result last weekend.

Yes good points.

Why do you think Lance might not move? Is it because of his father? Surely a move to Mercedes if he got the opportunity would be a good move and a move up the grid. He could get 2nd place maybe then most weekends and the odd win too.
Then if Hamilton retires at the end of this year or in the next couple of years sometime they could get Russell in and Russell + Lance would not be a bad team at Mercedes. Who knows they might even let them compete with each other for wins.

El_Duderino 09

I think lance isn't even in the conversation at Mercedes. He's average at best. Mercedes have Russell and Ocon on the roster and they're both well ahead of Lance.

I think Lance is only at a good team because of his father. There's no way a mclaren or ferrari or red bull would be interested in Lance. Let alone Mercedes who already has 2 better options.

mickdw

Lance is holding his own though and good enough to be in f1

chicorytip

Vettel, if he has rediscovered his mojo, would be a perfect fit for Mercedes should Hamilton quit next year. Verstappen would be the front runner for the job should he decide to leave Red Bull. Merc would never appoint Russell as No.1 driver. They want a big beast - a proven winner.

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote: »

Lance is holding his own though and good enough to be in f1

People say that as if its good. I think we all know the story with stroll. He was a pay driver and got years to develop into an average driver who can hold his own due to his sponsorship and his dad buying a team. Its not really a fairytale story.

flazio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

People say that as if its good. I think we all know the story with stroll. He was a pay driver and got years to develop into an average driver who can hold his own due to his sponsorship and his dad buying a team. Its not really a fairytale story.

I'm still very impressed with his performance in Turkey last year, he also did well in the lower formulae. He's no World Champion but he's holding his own.

Burkie1203

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

People say that as if its good. I think we all know the story with stroll. He was a pay driver and got years to develop into an average driver who can hold his own due to his sponsorship and his dad buying a team. Its not really a fairytale story.

A pole position, several podiums and a decent Junior career. He is well above average.

El_Duderino 09

Burkie1203 wrote: »

A pole position, several podiums and a decent Junior career. He is well above average.

He's not well above average in the 1 field. He's bang average at best. But has had some excellent results you could count them on one hand (and a lot of stinkers which you'd probably need both hands and your socks off to count).

Marginally beaten by an aging Massa in his first season. Marginally beat pay driver and an absolute nobody Sirotkin in his second and beaten out the gate by perez in the next 2 seasons.

Faugheen

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think lance isn't even in the conversation at Mercedes. He's average at best. Mercedes have Russell and Ocon on the roster and they're both well ahead of Lance.

I think Lance is only at a good team because of his father. There's no way a mclaren or ferrari or red bull would be interested in Lance. Let alone Mercedes who already has 2 better options.

I've seen you say this before about Ocon but I'm 95% sure he's been released from Mercedes.

The only drivers they have in F1 and feeder series are Russell and Vesti in F3

pjohnson

Faugheen wrote: »

I've seen you say this before about Ocon but I'm 95% sure he's been released from Mercedes.

Technically yes he has no contracted ties with Mercedes or their affiliates.

His agent however is Toto Wolff so hes not exactly banished from their camp completely.

El_Duderino 09

Faugheen wrote: »

I've seen you say this before about Ocon but I'm 95% sure he's been released from Mercedes.

The only drivers they have in F1 and feeder series are Russell and Vesti in F3

That was my understanding when he went to Renault too. But I heard Joe Saward say Mercedes still has options on him. So it might just mean the Mercedes has an option at the end of each contract or it might mean his Renault Contract can be broken IF Mercedes offer him a seat.

Joe was pretty sure that Wolff rates him and Mercedes have kept some kind of options open with him. So he's not a Mercedes driver like Russell, but he's still a Mercedes man and is high in their depth chart.

duploelabs

Just saw this on reddit, the speed difference when Gasly enters the slipstream of the ferrari

https://vimeo.com/562078507

barryribs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Marginally beaten by an aging Massa in his first season. Marginally beat pay driver and an absolute nobody Sirotkin in his second and beaten out the gate by perez in the next 2 seasons.

In fairness, he was barely 18 when he came into Williams and he beat the brakes off Sirotkin.

Wanderer78

duploelabs wrote:

Just saw this on reddit, the speed difference when Gasly enters the slipstream of the ferrari

Jesus that's mad, I assume the engine reving is from the slipstream itself, and not him?

duploelabs

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Jesus that's mad, I assume the engine reving is from the slipstream itself, and not him?

Yeah, it's the engines ability to rev higher because of that air pocket, but out of it, the drag is so severe at that speed that the engine can't keep up

El_Duderino 09

barryribs wrote: »

In fairness, he was barely 18 when he came into Williams and he beat the brakes off Sirotkin.

Yeah he did but how highly did you rate Sirotkin?

Also, he beat Sirotkin but I'm not sure about "beat the brakes off sirotkin. Sirotkin won the quali battle 13-8 stroll won the race result battle 9-8 and scored 6 points to Sirotkin's 1. No doubt that he won the battle against Sirotkin.

If you calss that as Sirotkin having his brakes beaten off then how do you class Stroll's beating at the hands of Perez over the last 2 seasons?

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

Yeah, it's the engines ability to rev higher because of that air pocket, but out of it, the drag is so severe at that speed that the engine can't keep up

Could you explain that a bit more?
I heard the engine tone change but didn't get why.

Wanderer78

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Could you explain that a bit more?
I heard the engine tone change but didn't get why.

a vacuum is created behind a car, due to the efficiency of its aerodynamics, this is very clean air, with little or no wind resistance, so another car following gets effectively a vacuum tow, this is an extremely good example of this process

El_Duderino 09

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a vacuum is created behind a car, due to the efficiency of its aerodynamics, this is very clean air, with little or no wind resistance, so another car following gets effectively a vacuum tow, this is an extremely good example of this process

How does that affect the engine revs? Or is it just because there is less resistance that the engine can rev faster?

patsman07

Exactly. Less wind resistance so engine can rev faster.

Anyone who has done a bit of cycling can tell you just how effective slipstream is, and at the speeds involved here it's a huge advantage. Makes for more exciting racing and easier overtakes too imo. If only we still had the old Hockenheim with the extremely long straights through the forest.

mickdw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How does that affect the engine revs? Or is it just because there is less resistance that the engine can rev faster?

Same gear, higher speed so revs will be higher, simple as that.... revs are locked in to a set ratio v speed in any particular gear.
Whether the speed increase is caused by reduced air resistance fron a tow or from drs or from a battery or turbo boost, revs will increase in line with speed in a fixed ratio.
Its just very noticeable when jumping in behind another car but similarly noticeable when drs opens but the speed build is not so sudden in the case of drs.