Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Level 5 lockdown essentially failed

12346»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    It only works when cases are very low and strict border controls implemented. We can't do the second, it's impossible. And there are several papers suggesting some level of pre existing immunity, anywhere from 20% to 50% to SARS COV2 in these populations.

    A lot of those countries dont have strict border controls or mandatory quarantining. As soon as a positive case is flagged, they do not stop until they find how they contracted it, everyone theyve been in contact with, and ultimately how the virus got into the country.

    We dont do that here - as Philip Nolan says, anything beyond the last 48hrs is merely an 'academic exercise'.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,770 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, China, Thailand et al are all basket cases?
    No. They are countries with proper contact tracing.
    Proper contact tracing works.

    Indefinite cycle of lockdowns does not work. I mean look at us - we are back round about the same situation as last year, with over 6 months of lockdowns in that time. And what have we gained? Nothing.

    China is a definite basket case and I wouldn't go believing any of their numbers.

    As for the other countries you mention, two things. They all had lock downs, same as us. What the advantages they had was no open land border with a basket case country like the UK. Secondly they are all asian countries and if you ever visited one of them you'd notice even pre-pandemic they were very much about about face masks to reduce airborne illnesses. Their society an advantage to them when it came to an airborne virus. Japan in particular has a society that would obey lockdown rules rigurously and look where that has gotten them compared to us.

    So if all of these countries had lockdowns that worked isnt that just proof that lockdowns work?


    Also, this is very important, contact testing is only possible when numbers are below a certain amount. We currently have about 500 infections daily. Doing contact testing on so many people isn't possible and also not feasible. There's only so much you can do but it's hard work when so many of these infected have been in contact with so many people. When the numbers were high in these countries contact testing wasn't working either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    What other plans though? Have you any idea about how to open the country without causing mass deaths because all other countries that aren't a basket case are doing lockdowns. The problem at the moment isn't the lockdown. It works. It's been proven to work. The problem is people breaking the lock down rules. It prolongs things and the only way to make lockdowns more successful is dealing with these breaches.

    I've made many suggestions in previous threads, and you'll be surprised to know that Ireland is in fact a backwards country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,120 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    I've made many suggestions in previous threads, and you'll be surprised to know that Ireland is in fact a backwards country.

    It’s really not.

    Any evidence that we are a worse country than in the past?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Allinall wrote: »
    It’s really not.

    Any evidence that we are a worse country than in the past?

    Not compared to the past but certainly compared to other first world countries. The fact that we've a blasphemy law and that abortions and divorces are very new to our society should tell you all you need to know. Also the people running the country are all school teachers and pub owners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    I've made many suggestions in previous threads, and you'll be surprised to know that Ireland is in fact a backwards country.
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Not compared to the past but certainly compared to other first world countries. The fact that we've a blasphemy law and that abortions and divorces are very new to our society should tell you all you need to know. Also the people running the country are all school teachers and pub owners.

    2nd in the world on the human development index report & the 16th happiness country. I think overall we are doing ok...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2020_World_Happiness_Report


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    The most vulnerable (nursing home folks) are completely vaccinated. Now its the underlying conditions folks. Surely when they are done some social respite must be afforded to us? level 5 lockdown going on four months + is not sustainable. Cases have plateaued because people have had enough, the level 5 tool is completely blunt at this stage. The goal was to keep the most vulnerable safe and out of ICU. When they are vaccinated that goal is complete. Now the goalposts are being moved to cases being too high, cases aren't all that important when ICU's aren't filling up surely?

    Yer man Nolan (whose 'educated predictions' have never married with reality) casually talking about another 10 weeks of lockdown like its a fine long weekend is a slap in the face, and I don't understand how any rational person can accept such callous and careless chatter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,532 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Allinall wrote: »
    It’s really not.

    Any evidence that we are a worse country than in the past?

    Believe what you like, but I want to leave and never return, so badly you wouldn't believe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Believe what you like, but I want to leave and never return, so badly you wouldn't believe.

    Exactly. Yet again this year we will be an outlier of the European community that we claim to be part of due to poor government with a disproportional reaction to a soon to be gone pandemic.

    You should leave. Many can't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Portion of people disagree with and complain about the restrictions, giving out about "the gubernment" and saying "Mehole" loads of times.

    They actively ignore restrictions.

    Cases don't go down as quick as they should and restrictions are extended.

    It's pointed out to them that this is because there is a portion of people who are ignoring the restrictions.

    They say they are ignoring the restrictions because they disagree with them and say "Mehole" loads more times.

    They actively ignore restrictions............


    BareGeneralBarebirdbat.webp

    There is never ever going to be total compliance with any restrictions. Not under any circumstances should anyone make rules expecting that 100% of a population will agree and follow them, the rules have to be made to accomodate for that certainty. Which our goal from level 5 absolutely does not.It also ignores the fact that not everybody has a home where they can isolate effectively for indefinitely long periods of time. Essential workers, hospitals, homeless shelters, disabled people living in care conditions, special education where close contact is necessary, prisons etc there's so SO many exceptions where COVID will spread in a particular environmemt regardless of how hard we the majority lockdown which is why the arbitrary figure for what is acceptable COVID cases daily is so meaningless and unhelpful and really dangerously poor guidance for the country tbh and the population continues to be punished for COVID spread that is often completely out of their hands.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Not compared to the past but certainly compared to other first world countries. The fact that we've a blasphemy law and that abortions and divorces are very new to our society should tell you all you need to know. Also the people running the country are all school teachers and pub owners.

    We don’t have a blasphemy law. We entirely abolished it at a constitutional level and the blasphemy law we had on paper was originally dormant and the more recent incarnation was effectively unusable to bring any prosecution it had so many defences and exclusions, and nobody in the history of the state was ever convicted of blasphemy. The last conviction under it was 1855!

    We’ve just modernised divorce laws without blinking, abortion was resolved without major fuss, we are one of the few countries on the planet that positively (not by court ruling) amended our constitution to enshrine same sex marriage rights and you can change gender by self determination and a solemn statement, and there wasn’t a decade long, heated debate about toilet signs, unlike the US... So whatever about the history, you couldn’t call contemporary Ireland anything but very progressive and pragmatic about a whole raft of social issues that absolutely vexed many western countries.

    Also on blasphemy, such laws are actually common around Europe and many are actively enforced.

    It’s also still an offence in Victoria, Tasmania and New South Wales.

    New Zealand only abolished theirs in 2019.

    They were only abolished in France in 2016, although were also dormant.

    Finland has them, Italy has them, Germany has them with possible prison sentences.

    Blasphemy is also still an offence in Northern Ireland and in Scotland, although you’re extremely unlikely to ever be prosecuted for it. It was only abolished in England & Wales in 2008 and the last prosecution there was 2007 albeit unsuccessful, but there was a successful prosecutions in 1977

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse_v_Lemon

    So yup, we are totally backwards ... having completely abolished blasphemy and never having convinced anyone of it in the first place...

    Also we rank 8th in the world for democracy - ranking in the top ten, very close to the Nordic countries, NZ, Switzerland etc

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

    Only in Ireland... (rolls eyes)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Funny reading back on my OP from December 1st.

    Seems like the answer to my question is at least 5 months of very severe lockdown followed by more months of heavy restrictions.

    A complete failed experiment/policy.

    We’ll be dealing with the fallout for years to come.

    You've called a lot of things that are coming to fruition now especially how unsustainable our current approaches have been..and fairplay..you have got a lot of slack over it the last year and I think I probably referred to you as some kind of denialist or whatever at some point but anyway you stuck to your guns and were right so apologies for it. Although unfortunately it's not going to make up for the current situation the country finds itself in. I hope that a majority of the country comes to their sense in the run up the St Patricks Day and makes the government aware of how unacceptable it is to maintain the current level 5 for such an absurdly protracted period of time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,120 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Not compared to the past but certainly compared to other first world countries. The fact that we've a blasphemy law and that abortions and divorces are very new to our society should tell you all you need to know. Also the people running the country are all school teachers and pub owners.

    You’re just making stuff up now.

    School teachers and pub owners eh? All of them?

    The fact that abortions and divorces are relatively new means that we are now a forward moving country.

    The exact opposite of what you claim.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,532 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Allinall wrote: »
    You’re just making stuff up now.

    School teachers and pub owners eh? All of them?

    The fact that abortions and divorces are relatively new means that we are now a forward moving country.

    The exact opposite of what you claim.

    Trying to bury the records of the Mothers and Babies scandal and exempting the Catholic church from civil proceedings relating to pedophile priests, are not something an advanced country does.

    The legal, banking and Helath systems in this country are all backward compared with other countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 272 ✭✭Accidentally


    Allinall wrote: »
    You’re just making stuff up now.

    School teachers and pub owners eh? All of them?

    The fact that abortions and divorces are relatively new means that we are now a forward moving country.

    The exact opposite of what you claim.


    Unfortunately in both these cases it was the people dragging the politicians with them. At a political level there is very little foresight and even less leadership.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,120 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Unfortunately in both these cases it was the people dragging the politicians with them. At a political level there is very little foresight and even less leadership.

    That’s exactly how it should be.

    The politicians represent and act on the wishes of the people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,862 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Trying to bury the records of the Mothers and Babies scandal and exempting the Catholic church from civil proceedings relating to pedophile priests, are not something an advanced country does.

    The legal, banking and Helath systems in this country are all backward compared with other countries.

    Where are these mythical countries?
    Utopia isn't a real place you know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,532 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Where are these mythical countries?
    Utopia isn't a real place you know.

    Australia and NZ would be two.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,862 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Australia and NZ would be two.

    You'll let the Maori and Aboriginal peoples know that they were never oppressed by their wonderful governments.

    No country is all sweetness and light.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement