Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

UAEguy2020

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Ireland could be in for a big loss at the weekend.

POM is a huge loss, moreso because we have very little options in the lineout. Ryan is out now so we are left with Beirne, Henderson and Ruddock with Stander at 8. None of those will win you consistent ball if the opposition go after your throw.

I would bring Toner back as a straight swap for Ryan.

I cannot understand how Jack Carty isn't number 1 outhalf. He is well ahead of Burns or any of the other back ups. Burns is not an 80% goalkicker not to mind 90%, what you need at international level. Jack has been outstanding lately and his game management and ability to mix his game makes him stand out.

Even if Sexton was fit it is a liability playing him now. He has been a great servant but is so injury/concussion prone he should not be involved. You could say the same for Murray.

I would have Cooney starting and Blade/Marmion as back up.

A defeat at the weekend will leave us in a battle with Italy for the wooden spoon.

Not sure what approach Ireland will take especially if Burns starts. If we kick high and loose Dupont will be very dangerous. It depends on what approach France take too. They haven't beaten us at home in a while so may play it tight.

The positive though is our lineout is already so abysmal that it couldn’t be much worse surely...can it?

ujjjjjjjjj

Goodnight and good luck if Burns starts.

Louis Friend

awec wrote: »

Nah, he made a mess of England. I think the England job came too soon for him.

Ah, that’s very unfair. England were going well and then blew-up during a crazy 10-15 minutes against Wales in the 2015 World Cup. That was the players’ fault, not Lancasters’. Naturally, he carried the can but both he and Farrell were treated pretty poorly by the RFU.

It’s generally accepted that a lot of Eddie Jones’ success was actually built on Stuart Lancaster’s groundwork.

Rob Kearney is effusive in his praise of Lancaster in his book. “The closest thing to Joe Schmidt in terms of preparation and attention to detail” from memory.

aloooof

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ah, that’s very unfair. England were going well and then blew-up during a crazy 10-15 minutes against Wales in the 2015 World Cup. That was the players’ fault, not Lancasters’. Naturally, he carried the can but both he and Farrell were treated pretty poorly by the RFU.

I think “made a mess of” is a bit too strong, but to be fair, it’s not just the RWC he gets criticised for.

He went a full RWC cycle without a 6 Nations win. Admittedly, it was 4 consecutive 2nd place finishes but not winning at least one is probably underachieving for any England coach.

awec

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ah, that’s very unfair. England were going well and then blew-up during a crazy 10-15 minutes against Wales in the 2015 World Cup. That was the players’ fault, not Lancasters’. Naturally, he carried the can but both he and Farrell were treated pretty poorly by the RFU.

It’s generally accepted that a lot of Eddie Jones’ success was actually built on Stuart Lancaster’s groundwork.

Rob Kearney is effusive in his praise of Lancaster in his book. “The closest thing to Joe Schmidt in terms of preparation and attention to detail” from memory.

He wasn't treated poorly. He improved England from when he took over, but he was still overall a failure and it was a mess. The Burgess nonsense for one. His going back on his own plans for that Wales game was another (dropping Ford and playing Farrell at 10).

aloooof wrote: »

I think “made a mess of” is a bit too strong, but to be fair, it’s not just the RWC he gets criticised for.

He went a full RWC cycle without a 6 Nations win. Admittedly, it was 4 consecutive 2nd place finishes but not winning at least one is probably underachieving for any England coach.

Right.

Ultimately Lancaster does an excellent job in his current role, mainly because he's massively overqualified for it. But it seems to suit him, and I think the mess of his England tenure has made him reluctant to put himself in that sort of position again.

UAEguy2020

Still don’t know if I think JGP is starting, that’s 3 news outlets that cover the team and all 3 haven’t even mention Murray.

Rugby4568

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Still don’t know if I think JGP is starting, that’s 3 news outlets that cover the team and all 3 haven’t even mention Murray.

Guarantee you JGP is starting trust me bro

UAEguy2020

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Guarantee you JGP is starting trust me bro

And what exactly is your source?

Rugby4568

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

And what exactly is your source?

I know people can’t be saying where I got it from but it’s a very reliable source that’s all I’d say

Thrashssacre

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

And what exactly is your source?

His source is Rugby4568 of course.

Piehead

Niallof9 wrote: »

If we lose this weekend is Farrell in trouble?

Hopefully - he’s completely out of his depth. Criminal the IRFU gave him his first head coach job

swiwi_

Piehead wrote: »

Hopefully - he’s completely out of his depth. Criminal the IRFU gave him his first head coach job

In other news the director of public prosecutions is investigating claims of illegal activity at IRU HQ.

Hyperbole much?

This forum is utterly crap at the moment I have to say, with flyby users who can’t seem to post anything nuanced but just the type of posts littered with “useless, disgrace, criminal etc” and no actual analysis.

molloyjh

As others have already said, losing to a great French side is hardly a massive issue. And last week was a mixed bag in terms of individual player error (not on the coaches) and some really positive performances (at least partially on the coaches). We should still beat Italy and Scotland based on what I've seen. England may prove tricky as they potentially get their act together between now and then, but for now I think it's fair to write off the Wales game in terms of judging Farrell. And if that leads to a 4th place finish in the 6Ns then thats just how it is. If we underperform generally throughout and lose to Scotland then maybe we can talk about Farrell being under pressure.

bayern

swiwi_ wrote: »

In other news the director of public prosecutions is investigating claims of illegal activity at IRU HQ.

Hyperbole much?

This forum is utterly crap at the moment I have to say, with flyby users who can’t seem to post anything nuanced but just the type of posts littered with “useless, disgrace, criminal etc” and no actual analysis.

welcome to 6 nations time.

Louis Friend

The gas thing is, people would get behind Farrell if he dropped Sexton completely and played Harry Byrne at 10.

They have been unlucky to be fair, of the two immediate replacements, Carberry is crocked and let’s not forget the other was run out of town for sending inappropriate Whatsapps.

Dickie10

were in a rebuikding phase i hadnt much confidence in beating wales away in cardiff. this is a bang average ireland team and has been the last 2 years,any team losing to japan in a world cup is a long way off top 3 or 4 countries in the world.
Now is a great time to experiment with the team now championship is gone, get game time into players. bad call to start sexton id give billy burns the start and let him reddem himself

Louis Friend

Louis Friend wrote: »

The gas thing is, people would get behind Farrell if he dropped Sexton completely and played Harry Byrne at 10.

They have been unlucky to be fair, of the two immediate replacements, Carberry is crocked and let’s not forget the other was run out of town for sending inappropriate Whatsapps.

Thankfully Farrell is not stupid enough to try our 6th choice out half for the sake of it

jacothelad

Scratchly wrote: »

Have it on good authority that Ham String bought a Gibson and Murray will be playing it.

Les Paul at 10 then......with Nighthawk on the bench.....:D:D:D:D:D

phog

I don't know if this was mentioned already but EK Rugby analysis has compared our scrums from last year to this year and reckons we're in a better position and more stable than last year. Be interesting to see if we continue this on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/ek_rugby/status/1359955153114267649

Niallof9

molloyjh wrote: »

As others have already said, losing to a great French side is hardly a massive issue. And last week was a mixed bag in terms of individual player error (not on the coaches) and some really positive performances (at least partially on the coaches). We should still beat Italy and Scotland based on what I've seen. England may prove tricky as they potentially get their act together between now and then, but for now I think it's fair to write off the Wales game in terms of judging Farrell. And if that leads to a 4th place finish in the 6Ns then thats just how it is. If we underperform generally throughout and lose to Scotland then maybe we can talk about Farrell being under pressure.

It will be a massive loss. You're kidding yourself thinking otherwise. We'll be zero from two heading into a nothing match against Italy where perhaps because of the 0 from 2 he can't take the usual punts. Then its Scotland away.

We are gone beyond the days of being happy just competing.

We are reaping what we sow, as many pointed out. We wasted a full window in November and now we're playing guys who aren't ready in the Six Nations. Utterly daft as it is predictable.

And we have the same people on here, as usual, saying "nothing to see here" or wait till such and such a date or match.

We can beat France, they aren't the French of before, no matter what improvement. And that will be massive. And a great turnaround, reignite our tournament.

But the coaches and the team are in for a World of hurt if its a loss.And i would say we'll finish second bottom if that happens. And part of that could be down to November.

bilston

Niallof9 wrote: »

It will be a massive loss. You're kidding yourself thinking otherwise. We'll be zero from two heading into a nothing match against Italy where perhaps because of the 0 from 2 he can't take the usual punts. Then its Scotland away.

We are gone beyond the days of being happy just competing.

We are reaping what we sow, as many pointed out. We wasted a full window in November and now we're playing guys who aren't ready in the Six Nations. Utterly daft as it is predictable.

And we have the same people on here, as usual, saying "nothing to see here" or wait till such and such a date or match.

We can beat France, they aren't the French of before, no matter what improvement. And that will be massive. And a great turnaround, reignite our tournament.

But the coaches and the team are in for a World of hurt if its a loss.And i would say we'll finish second bottom if that happens. And part of that could be down to November.

I k ow you've been against Farrell from the start and maybe even a tiny part of you subconsciously wants him to fail, but let's be clear this IS a quality French team, its too early to say how good it is, but a lot of smart rugby people make them favourites for the 6Ns and at this stage some even think see them as WC winners in 2023. They are a lot more than Antoine Dupont.

Two defeats from two will obviously put pressure on the coaching team, but the IRFU aren't going to sack a coach 40% of the way through a 6Ns campaign. Just not happening.

Also the more pressure Farrell is under from the media and fans like yourself the less likely he is to turn to someone like Harry Byrne or Craig Casey. It becomes a vicious circle.

I'd leave any inquest until after the 6Ns personally.

irelandrover

Niallof9 wrote: »

We are reaping what we sow, as many pointed out. We wasted a full window in November and now we're playing guys who aren't ready in the Six Nations. Utterly daft as it is predictable.

Who is playing that isn't ready? Your problem seems to be that Farrell is playing people that aren't ready. A lot of other peoples problems is that he is sticking with the tried and tested and isn't giving new guys a chance.

It really shows that no matter what he does, someone is going to complain.

UAEguy2020

The reality is unless we have a dreadful day at the office it’s likely going to be a one score game at the weekend especially in the pissing rain, it’s up to us to put it up to the French in areas we are strong in and try get ourselves on the right side of that one score.

Niallof9

bilston wrote: »

I k ow you've been against Farrell from the start and maybe even a tiny part of you subconsciously wants him to fail, but let's be clear this IS a quality French team, its too early to say how good it is, but a lot of smart rugby people make them favourites for the 6Ns and at this stage some even think see them as WC winners in 2023. They are a lot more than Antoine Dupont.

Two defeats from two will obviously put pressure on the coaching team, but the IRFU aren't going to sack a coach 40% of the way through a 6Ns campaign. Just not happening.

Also the more pressure Farrell is under from the media and fans like yourself the less likely he is to turn to someone like Harry Byrne or Craig Casey. It becomes a vicious circle.

I'd leave any inquest until after the 6Ns personally.

I'm against him as he shouldn't have been chosen. He was involved in Japan. He's a great rugby coach, well liked. But Irish rugby shouldn't be an experiment for some lads first gig, particularly at this junction. They should have kept him as assistant or let him go if he didn't want that.

Yeah i somewhat agree. Of course he won't. I think he'll get a full whack of it.

However the usual thing is inquest after..then summer tour, then november. Its never ending sometimes.

And as i said before he'd be under less pressure if he did try a Casey or whoever. I wouldn't have any criticism if he did that or had Baird starting, or coombes. As long term we would benefit.

My issue is that he had a full window in November. The Coombes thing just adds to my annoyance with the coaching ticket. Inconsistent and daft.

its a quality side without doubt. However they are being overrated by many just by account of being the French. They've done nothing so far. They've lost to Scotland (who i'd love to see challenge this year to mix it up). Like England, France have natural advantages. And its wasteful and mind boggling its taken them so long to become consistent. But i'd hate to go back to an era where we shrug our shoulders and think ah we can't beat the French, and it would be good to finish third.

joficeduns1

Hoping for a belter on Sunday. Our lads have a point to prove and France will want to show that their form is legitimate. I can see a hard fought win for either side.

Wales v Scotland will hopefully have some spark but Scotland are riding a high. If they can keep up the strong momentum it'll be a good clash with us later in the tournament.

Niallof9

irelandrover wrote: »

Who is playing that isn't ready? Your problem seems to be that Farrell is playing people that aren't ready. A lot of other peoples problems is that he is sticking with the tried and tested and isn't giving new guys a chance.

It really shows that no matter what he does, someone is going to complain.

He had ample opportunity to try Billy Burns. thats my point. Now he's being chucked in to sink or swim, which is typical.

I'd have zero issue if he mixed it up at all. We are sticking with the tried and tested too much. But when they are chucked in the deep end and they sink, people then discard them. Its completely unfair and part of a wider problem here.

Exhibit A: Jack Carty.

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

I k ow you've been against Farrell from the start and maybe even a tiny part of you subconsciously wants him to fail, but let's be clear this IS a quality French team, its too early to say how good it is, but a lot of smart rugby people make them favourites for the 6Ns and at this stage some even think see them as WC winners in 2023. They are a lot more than Antoine Dupont.

Two defeats from two will obviously put pressure on the coaching team, but the IRFU aren't going to sack a coach 40% of the way through a 6Ns campaign. Just not happening.

Also the more pressure Farrell is under from the media and fans like yourself the less likely he is to turn to someone like Harry Byrne or Craig Casey. It becomes a vicious circle.

I'd leave any inquest until after the 6Ns personally.

The only surprise about this French team is that it took so long for them to field one this good. With the number of players they have, the amount of money in French rugby and the coaching talent, it's actually mind-boggling.

UAEguy2020

The first thing we need to do is NOT chase the game under any circumstances as that plays right into France’s hands. We just need to be patient and keep taking our 3’s, possibly even a 5/7 pointer here or there but don’t panic or rush things. People talk about the Scotland match but the big thing about the Scotland match was it was the only game France had to chase the match and when that happened things started going against them, yes they had a red card and all that but even with the red they were still playing the game quite similarly to how they usually play until Maitland’s 2nd try as that made it a mountain to climb.

UAEguy2020

Niallof9 wrote: »

He had ample opportunity to try Billy Burns. thats my point. Now he's being chucked in to sink or swim, which is typical.

I'd have zero issue if he mixed it up at all. We are sticking with the tried and tested too much. But when they are chucked in the deep end and they sink, people then discard them. Its completely unfair and part of a wider problem here.

I completely agree. In the autumn nations cup we had two good home games to try out Burns and Ross Byrne but still insisted on starting Sexton but then chuck Byrne in the fire v England at Twickenham... what did we have to gain by playing Sexton v Wales and Scotland? Nothing and now we are going to pay the price for not giving a young 10 game time.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

However the usual thing is inquest after..then summer tour, then november. Its never ending sometimes.

In what way is this the usual thing? Schmidt was deservedly never going to be let go at any point. Kidney probably let go at the right time. Eddie O'Sullivan was probably a 6 Nations too far. (And admittedly there's the issue with him having signed a contract prior to the 07 RWC, in fairness).

But the bigger point for me is they had an obvious successor in mind after each of those appointments. Leo Cullen is probably head of the queue but I'm not so sure it's as clear cut this time round.

Niallof9 wrote: »

its a quality side without doubt. However they are being overrated by many. They've done nothing so far. They've lost to Scotland (who i'd love to see challenge this year to mix it up).

To be fair here, they were beating Scotland 7-6 before they got a red card after 37 minutes so I don't think we can read too much into that. We saw last week how difficult it is to play 14 vs 15 for a good stretch of a match.