Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I'm getting memories of Argentina 2015 off this.

irishbucsfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Yes. But they werent 10 wks ago! Thats my point.

But I was impressed enough with him watching through a tv screen in 2019 & Jan 2020 to know that he was ready.
But i also knew Fra and Eng were not the teams to be giving him his wings.

Maybe you’re right and maybe you should be picking the team, but I’m happy that they’ve brought Casey into this camp and actually given him the opportunity to put his hand up rather than bringing in someone like Cooney

Larbre34

If this is some kind of an atonement situation for Burns then I would say its not the time or place.

You start Ross Byrne every time in these circumstances, he has a long working relationship with JGP and its just practical to do so.

Our forwards need some shift on Sunday boys. Some shift.

UAEguy2020

Can’t say I’ll have much sympathy for the coaching staff if this ends up
Like Argentina 2015, they didn’t prepare at all for the potential losses of our 9/10 and now find themselves in this position, now they will learn the hard way why you should be giving your other options game time when at all possible.

ionadnapokot

theVersatile wrote: »

As far as we know, Murray was injured yesterday, maybe Wednesday. You want to call in someone on one day's training (if even) to leapfrog Casey, who's been in the squad since the start of the campaign? Now that's awful management.
This is the right call. A show of faith. Either that or he only gets on with two minutes to go anyways - at which case no harm.

Do you think he shouldn't have played in November?

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

The laughing had little to do with the selection you provided.

This. Sure didn't I follow up my post with an "it may well be true" one minutes later. The piss taking had nothing to do with the selection and everything to do with the behaviours that came with it.

Anyway, we're screwed this weekend. Missing Kilcoyne, Ryan, POM, Doris, Murray, Sexton, Carbery and Stockdale is far too much for us to be able to cope with against what looks like a class French side. Ugh.....I may need to give boards a break for a bit as I can only imagine the state of the place after this weekend.

LuckyLloyd

My only quibble with the selection is Earls really.

This is positive. We need to give alternatives proper competitive game time. It could be a rough last 20 minutes and likely a losing result. But Farrell can't be bluntly judged on results the rest of the way imo. Though I suppose he takes blame for not giving out more starts to alternatives last year of course!

sydthebeat

i think we're gonna ship a fairly heavy loss here... 10 points plus

Clegg

Didn't notice Kilcoyne missing from the squad. He offers a lot of impact from the bench and we'll miss that especially against a side like France.

Rugby4568

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Can’t say I’ll have much sympathy for the coaching staff if this ends up
Like Argentina 2015, they didn’t prepare at all for the potential losses of our 9/10 and now find themselves in this position, now they will learn the hard way why you should be giving your other options game time when at all possible.

Exactly

thomond2006

I'm thrilled for Craig Casey.

Larbre34

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think we're gonna ship a fairly heavy loss here... 10 points plus

I'd bite your hand off for a defeat by 10 now. But I wouldn't describe 10 as heavy. 20 or more.

Rugby4568

At least the defeat won’t hurt as much since we’ve no hope going into the game.

phily2002

Scratchly wrote: »

Ghost attacker? As in Leigh Halfpenny running in support and available for the pass? Nonsense from ROG.

Hatchet job on Lowe to big up his pal Zebo.

"Simon Zebo did well again for Racing 92 against us last Sunday."

Fairly shocking article for someone who might have ambitions of coaching Ireland.
Forget about POM and Burns, Earl's first less than average performance in 3 years, all Lowes fault.
Notice he didn't mention Murray's or Hendos errors either.
Don't know what he's reading that people blame Earl's and not Lowe, most Ive seen agree they were both poor

Curse These Metal Hands

molloyjh wrote: »

This. Sure didn't I follow up my post with an "it may well be true" one minutes later. The piss taking had nothing to do with the selection and everything to do with the behaviours that came with it.

Anyway, we're screwed this weekend. Missing Kilcoyne, Ryan, POM, Doris, Murray, Sexton, Carbery and Stockdale is far too much for us to be able to cope with against what looks like a class French side. Ugh.....I may need to give boards a break for a bit as I can only imagine the state of the place after this weekend.

Agree with the rest but Murray isn't a loss. He's been terrible for ages. The team can only be improved with Gibson-Park in it.

molloyjh

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Exactly

Yes because game time is a magic pill that makes guys not up to Test level transform into guys who are.

Except that it doesn't. We've looked at McGrath, Cooney, Marmion and JGP at 9 in the last few years. We've looked at Carbery, Carty, Byrne and Burns at 10. None of those guys are realistically Test level players except for the one that's injured. Playing them in Test games is almost certainly not going to change that.

People actually talk like coaches deliberately dig holes for themselves or deliberately select inferior players. Do any of you know how utterly f-ing dumb that sounds?

Interested Observer

Bar Earls, who should not be there, I think it's about as good an XV as we can pick at the moment given injuries etc with a few odd quibbles. I'm much more interested to see how we play and whether we actually manage to threaten France at all. I expect us to lose this because France are just a better side but just hope it's a decent loss and we actually fire a shot.

ionadnapokot

irelandrover wrote: »

Casey has played a lot since November. Including some very difficult games where he's shown up well. Its easy to see why he's made this squad but wasnt quite ready back in October.

Dont buy that at all.
He was plenty ready in Nov to play Gerogia at the very least.

I think he was ready to start v Italy in the 6N in Oct.
He is not ready to come off the bench for his 1st Cap against France in the 6N and possibly have to play 70mins!

Casey is the future and ready. But this is unfair on the guy.
They havent prepared him enough.
He has 0 international minutes.

TomsOnTheRoof

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes because game time is a magic pill that makes guys not up to Test level transform into guys who are.

Except that it doesn't. We've looked at McGrath, Cooney, Marmion and JGP at 9 in the last few years. We've looked at Carbery, Carty, Byrne and Burns at 10. None of those guys are realistically Test level players except for the one that's injured. Playing them in Test games is almost certainly not going to change that.

People actually talk like coaches deliberately dig holes for themselves or deliberately select inferior players. Do any of you know how utterly f-ing dumb that sounds?

Disagree on Marmion. He didn't put a foot wrong and had a great game against NZ. I'll never understand why he didn't get more opportunities.

nerd69

Larbre34 wrote: »

If this is some kind of an atonement situation for Burns then I would say its not the time or place.

You start Ross Byrne every time in these circumstances, he has a long working relationship with JGP and its just practical to do so.

Our forwards need some shift on Sunday boys. Some shift.

But sure switching between backups every week does none of them any favours either I'm happy to see burns given a proper shot. I feel for r byrne in that he started two england games where dan carter would have looked bad but I dont see anything in him that shows he's a better out half at international level than burns. At least not yet plus he has a distinct lack of athleticism that can be hard to hide internationaly there days which is why harry has always been seen as next in line instead of ross.

I hope burns gets a run of 2-3 games here it's about time someone does even if it's enforced through hia in this instance

molloyjh

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

Agree with the rest but Murray isn't a loss. He's been terrible for ages. The team can only be improved with Gibson-Park in it.

He hasnt been terrible. He hasn't been great either. But he does offer a lot in terms of experience, leadership and physicality. His passing may be slow too, but its bloody accurate. His decision making tends to be good overall even if sometimes the execution isn't. And in a game like this I think some of those attributes would go a long way.

Rugby4568

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes because game time is a magic pill that makes guys not up to Test level transform into guys who are.

Except that it doesn't. We've looked at McGrath, Cooney, Marmion and JGP at 9 in the last few years. We've looked at Carbery, Carty, Byrne and Burns at 10. None of those guys are realistically Test level players except for the one that's injured. Playing them in Test games is almost certainly not going to change that.

People actually talk like coaches deliberately dig holes for themselves or deliberately select inferior players. Do any of you know how utterly f-ing dumb that sounds?

We’re talking about people like H Byrne who need to start playing European cup games for their province and then playing international games. No point having injury prone Sexton around if we’re looking to build towards 2023. Ireland just aren’t good at giving young guys an opportunity they love to stick with the old people. France gave all their young guys plenty of opportunity and look at them now.

arsebiscuits1

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Disagree on Marmion. He didn't put a foot wrong and had a great game against NZ. I'll never understand why he didn't get the opportunity.

His pass mostly.

Off his weak side (something a test level 9 cannot have) is not good enough. You can't effectively play flat off him because it's too slow.

It's the same issue with McGrath largely

eagle eye

Byrne with Gibson-Park would make sense, they know each other so well.
Burns showed his decision making is horrendous, he shouldn't be anywhere near the team.

LuckyLloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes because game time is a magic pill that makes guys not up to Test level transform into guys who are.

Except that it doesn't. We've looked at McGrath, Cooney, Marmion and JGP at 9 in the last few years. We've looked at Carbery, Carty, Byrne and Burns at 10. None of those guys are realistically Test level players except for the one that's injured. Playing them in Test games is almost certainly not going to change that.

People actually talk like coaches deliberately dig holes for themselves or deliberately select inferior players. Do any of you know how utterly f-ing dumb that sounds?

Didn't win many games hanging onto players from the last world cup cycle

Didn't develop any alternatives

Won't get a pass now for losing games when he's forced to the latter because the former is eventually jutting up against the limits of time

The likelihood was always that Farrell would be unsuccessful, given the size of the task he inherited. The overhaul that's coming was always going to involve the coaching staff. It's not all his fault, I think everyone should agree to that.

Rugby4568

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Dont buy that at all.
He was plenty ready in Nov to play Gerogia at the very least.

I think he was ready to start v Italy in the 6N in Oct.
He is not ready to come off the bench for his 1st Cap against France in the 6N and possibly have to play 70mins!

Casey is the future and ready. But this is unfair on the guy.
They havent prepared him enough.
He has 0 international minutes.

Agreed

nerd69

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes because game time is a magic pill that makes guys not up to Test level transform into guys who are.

Except that it doesn't. We've looked at McGrath, Cooney, Marmion and JGP at 9 in the last few years. We've looked at Carbery, Carty, Byrne and Burns at 10. None of those guys are realistically Test level players except for the one that's injured. Playing them in Test games is almost certainly not going to change that.

People actually talk like coaches deliberately dig holes for themselves or deliberately select inferior players. Do any of you know how utterly f-ing dumb that sounds?

What do you mean we've looked at? Is maby 20 mins maby less off the bench looking at someone?

nerd69

I'll add to he above that international time can absolutely help a guy develop. Look at ntamack. Throw into the france lineup at 19 had some bad games. Now he's a monster

molloyjh

Rugby4568 wrote: »

We’re talking about people like H Byrne who need to start playing European cup games for their province and then playing international games. No point having injury prone Sexton around if we’re looking to build towards 2023. Ireland just aren’t good at giving young guys an opportunity they love to stick with the old people. France gave all their young guys plenty of opportunity and look at them now.

Its so frustrating reading stuff like this because it simply isn't true. At 10 for example, Carbery got his debut at 21 and Jackson at 22. Farrell himself has had no problem goving new guys caps, including Doris at 21.

You are not entitled to your own facts so please stop talking guff that is provably false.

ionadnapokot

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm getting memories of Argentina 2015 off this.

This could be a Valentines massacre!

But we were going to loose to France even with Sexton, Murray and Ryan.