Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

AdamD

It was a perfectly normal thing to say

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810095#Comment_120810095

They are taking our filler and starting them in a RC game, not a great sign is it.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803456#Comment_120803456

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but during his press conference JK was saying he dreamt of being Bakkies Botha and not Paul O'Connell. I wondering was this him having a go at POC for him not being called up for Ireland (Andy Farrell is the HC but POC is the forwards coach).

pickarooney

Fuckin' Gossip girl in here

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812456#Comment_120812456

ah in the context of what he was asked it was perfectly fine response.

he literally didnt grow up watching Paul O Connell play rugby, theres nothing disparaging at all in that statement.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812742#Comment_120812742

no, its not.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812742#Comment_120812742

Definitely that was his motive and if Munster were any good they'd cancel his contract right now. The cheek of Kleyn to have a go at a national hero.

I never want to see him a Munster jersey again after insulting our legend.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812749#Comment_120812749

I didn't think it was disparaging either. Plain and simple to all who Kleyn would have aspired to be.

He's still a Munster player and former Ireland international though. Just a bit more cop on needed.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812749#Comment_120812749

I think there's alot wrong about this. Playing 5 games for a country and then jumping ship like it meant nothing and taking 5 caps & a RWC spot that could have gone to a much more deserving i.e Devin Toner its a major issue actually. How so many out there are okay with this I find astounding, if roles were reverse and it was an Irish player taking 5 Boks caps and then defecting back to Ireland I can promise you the SA rugby public would be far from forgiving.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812709#Comment_120812709

I hold no grudge against him and didn't see it as an insult either. We would all know his background here.

Irish rugby are paying his wages and he spoke previously about the impact of his selection 2019 RWC & 'the backlash' (from total idiots I add). I would have thought with those considerations he would have given a better...or more mature response.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812927#Comment_120812927

The SA public do a lot of things I'm happy the Irish public don't do as much.

I don't get the issue at all. The coach at the time didn't think Toner was more deserving and what exactly did you expect Kleyn to do? Look into the future and say "nah, WR might change the regulations, I might be able to play for SA after not playing for Ireland for a few years while the coach doesn't call me into the squad, and then SA might have injury problems and I'll get called up so I better not play international rugby now".

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812927#Comment_120812927

I think most player that grew up in a country would prefer to play for that country, would Ben Healy prefer to play for Ireland, almost certainly, would Ian McKinley prefer to play for Ireland, almost certainly, would CJ Stander have preferred to play for SA, almost certainly.

The fact that Ireland didn't want Kleyn anymore means he can go back playing for his home country.

At this stage we've used probably 10-20 players who played for Ireland that were born and grew up playing rugby in another country. If you accept a country using project/granny rules then you really can't have a complaint about a player using transfer rules.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812930#Comment_120812930

I honestly don't remember much 'backlash' against Kleyn in 2019.

Like, there was the usual pearl-clutching about project players but very little specific to him. No different to Roux, Payne, Stander, Lowe, etc.

It was obvious that Joe just wanted rid of Toner, if it wasn't Kleyn it would have been someone else.

Best of luck to him anyway.

ionadnapokot

'backlash'

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/jean-kleyn-i-d-love-to-play-internationals-again-it-s-an-incredible-honour-1.4699811

jacothelad

It's not really surprising that this exposes the small minded, lack of generosity of spirit of a, thankfully, small number of posters. I wish him all the best. I hope it works out for him and his family both in Ireland and in SA. If Ireland don't win the RWC I'd be delighted if he got a winners medal.

salmocab

I’m not keen on the rule, it shouldn’t be allowed between tier 1 nations but I’d have no beef with this particular move and certainly not his comments. Good luck to him.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812927#Comment_120812927

complete petty rubbish that doesnt even deserve a response. Theres nothing to "forgive".

Kleyn is surplus to requirements in ireland, World Rugby have a facility for him to play for his home country. More power to him for taking his opportunity to get capped for his home nation.

and for "context"

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812988#Comment_120812988

They do but they seem to have much more respect for their national team than we do based on this, we are basically okay with a player trying on a jersey to see if it fits and then jump ship as soon as someone else comes calling.

I would expect Kleyn to turn it down unless he was fully committed like any person with integrity would do, this situation proves he was never Irish so what's he doing playing for Ireland? What I would expect is for him to do what JGP, Lowe etc did and stick to their decision rather than jump ship as soon as their country of birth came calling.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813104#Comment_120813104

Completely true though. Should never have taken the call up in 2019 or accepted a spot at the RWC if he wasnt fully committed.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813064#Comment_120813064

You mean people who actually have enough respect for the Irish jersey? You seem its okay to just take afew caps and then run back home when it suits.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813023#Comment_120813023

They may do but as soon as they take a cap from their adopted country that should be that. If McKinley or Healy take a cap for Scotland or Italy then best of luck to them but I would be disappointed in them if they decide to then turn back and switch to Ireland if things started going well to the point they would be good enough for Irish selection. I don't really care if Stander would prefer to play for SA, the fact is even when he was amazing he never gave less than 100% commitment for Ireland which Kleyn clearly doesn't know about.

Well if he was loyal to his new adopted country he should try harder to force his way into the squad, rather than take the easy option and play for his original country just because its "easier". Show's up his loyalty.

Like I said I dont care, those players didnt play for another nation and then switch to Ireland, its different circumstances to this.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813118#Comment_120813118

They do but they seem to have much more respect for their national team than we do based on this, we are basically okay with a player trying on a jersey to see if it fits and then jump ship as soon as someone else comes calling.

He hasn't been picked for 4 years and there is no indication he is going to be anytime soon. He didn't jump ship "as soon as they came calling" and its an utterly absurd framing.

He was fully committed in 2019. Ireland no longer wanted him and you expect him to just sit on his ass and ignore his home country's call? Its childish fantasy stuff.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813064#Comment_120813064

Also im not small minded but thanks. Good dog!

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813173#Comment_120813173

You are aware that there is a 3 year stand-down period right?

Mr Tickle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813070#Comment_120813070

Yeah this is pretty much my thoughts on it too.

Years ago I heard a case being made by some organization that was representing players from the pacific islands. They made a very good case about the imbalance between the contribution of their players to the world game and their home countries' international teams. It was a very sensible argument around the scale of economic opportunity that going to play oversees represented. They talked about the amount of money that some of these guys would be sending home to help their extended families etc.

In cases like that, the choice to represent another country just isn't the same as a player who's moved between two tier 1 countries.

I was glad that world rugby decided to keep the clause saying that they would have to approve each transfer, but I had hoped that that would be their way of preventing tier 1 countries from benefiting. You don't want to see guys using lower ranked countries as a shop window to get a look in at home.

All that being said, I don't for a second think that it was a cynical move by Kleyn, and I don't begrudge wanting to play for SA. He's earned it through his performances this year. I just don't think that the rules should allow him to and I hope it doesn't become too common.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813188#Comment_120813188

Yes I am, what's you're point?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813200#Comment_120813200

That its impossible for anyone to change country "when someone else comes calling". 3 years out of playing international is a large chunk of a player's career.

He has been out of the international picture for basically 4 years now. Ireland don't want him, so what the hell does it matter to anyone if he goes to play for SA? Perhaps he was far more committed to Ireland in 2019 than Ireland was committed to him.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813176#Comment_120813176

Well then he show try harder to change the coaches mind. Once he chose Ireland he should have stayed committed and seen it through, these rules were put in places for tier 2 nations to get some of their players back, not situations like this. It isnt absurd, this is the first season he's shown he's good enough for test level and as soon as he does and the Bok's came calling it was bye bye.

He wasn't committed, he just wanted to play test rugby and he used us at the expense of a far better and more loyal player in Toner just because he was beefier and Joe Schmidt had lost his marbles at that point.

I would expect him to actually, he made his choice so he should honour it and try get himself into the Irish squad.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813233#Comment_120813233

Well then maybe he should try playing better.

Well too bad, he took those Irish caps in 2019 so now he should honour it by turning down SA when they come calling. Well Ireland gave him far more than he could ever give Ireland so he can have no complaints.

phog

Omg there's always ONE