Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Shehal · 06-07-2023 07:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814937#Comment_120814937

The player's we have dependened on havent played for another country before playing for us.

awec · 06-07-2023 07:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814964#Comment_120814964

This seems like a completely arbitrary point to get hung up on. They've all played at a high level for their respective home nations, and we've had no bother capping them.

If today's rules on switching allegiance after senior caps existed back in the day you can bet your mortgage that Ireland would have capped Isa Nacewa too.

We were never exactly picky about it.

06-07-2023 07:33PM

It’s incredibly arbitrary.

We know most people would do it.

sydthebeat · 06-07-2023 08:08PM

Roll on Saturday so we have some rugby to talk about and forget this schadenfreude

Podge_irl · 06-07-2023 08:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814987#Comment_120814987

Technically Nacewa still wouldn't have been eligible for Ireland

Dubinusa · 06-07-2023 09:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814987#Comment_120814987

There's no teams that do not use foreign player. S.A would be the exception, they have used Zimbabweans?

Aus and the kiwis have pacific islanders. England also bring lads in. Scotland is Western Province north and Wales are jammed with English men.

pickarooney · 06-07-2023 09:19PM

Argentina, Georgia?

06-07-2023 09:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814345#Comment_120814345

Interestingly there are many species of mammal where the female will mate with multiple partners over a short period of time. The female Antelope for example will mate with multiple partners within the herd and even migratory 'bachelor' antelope from outside the herd. Sloppy seconds are integral in growing the antelope population.

Obviously antelope are better known in South Africa as Springbok. Another interesting fact about the Springbok - they have one of the shortest mating rituals in the world lasting, no joke, usually around one pump.

06-07-2023 09:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815538#Comment_120815538

So do bonobos, our joint closest cousin (along with chimpanzees).

Shehal · 06-07-2023 11:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814987#Comment_120814987

They haven't though, Lowe, JGP, Hasen didnt play for NZL or Australia before playing for Ireland. Kleyn has shown that he was never Irish so why was he playing for us in the first place?

We'll never know the fact of the matter is Nacewa is here say.

awec · 06-07-2023 11:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816008#Comment_120816008

Hansen is a granny ruler, but played for Australia U20s.

Both JGP and Lowe played for the Maori's.

CJ Stander played for SA U18s and U20s.

Payne played for NZ U21s.

We tried to get Bleyendaal too, another NZ U20s player, only injury prevented him getting Irish caps.

Hansen, Lowe, JGP and all the rest would all be playing for their home nations if they had the chance and if you think otherwise you are delusional.

The idea that it's completely acceptable to change before senior level, but then it suddenly becomes unacceptable at senior level is entirely arbitrary. Ireland are among the worst, if not the worst at exploiting the residency rules to hoover up players who have been rejected elsewhere. Getting annoyed at Kleyn's move is very hypocritical.

Dave_The_Sheep · 06-07-2023 11:45PM

And you were doing so well.

phog · 06-07-2023 11:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816097#Comment_120816097

Not really, not even close.

Dave_The_Sheep · 07-07-2023 12:58AM

Best part is, neither of us are really 100% sure who we are referring to...

Former Former Former · 07-07-2023 07:51AM

I mean, if Kleyn had refused another Ireland call-up to go back to South Africa, it would be one thing, but no-one is served by leaving him sitting around and finishing his test career at 25.

If this law really helps some of the Tier 2 countries be more competitive, then it has to be a good thing, and if the odd Tier 1 team picks up a player as a by-product, then who cares?

Shehal · 07-07-2023 08:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816059#Comment_120816059

The one big issue with you're points, not one team you mentioned is a test side.

Whether they would or wouldn't the fact of the matter is they DIDNT, Kleyn DID after already playing for Ireland. You dont arrest someone for potentially committing a crime you arrest someone FOR committing a crime ( I know the usual chumps will try create some tangent from this and say I said Kleyn commited a crime, dont even try you'll make yourself look stupid).

Like I said you have shown a single example that's the same as what Kleyn did so no its not hypocritical.

Shehal · 07-07-2023 08:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816482#Comment_120816482

Well if his test career is finished at 25 then too bad, he could have said no to an Ireland call up in 2019 and none of this mess would have happened.

aloooof · 07-07-2023 08:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816598#Comment_120816598

I know the usual chumps will try create some tangent

Mod: You need to rein in this kind of language. Attack the post, not the poster(s).

Shehal · 07-07-2023 09:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816639#Comment_120816639

Fair enough I will, but just for fun lets see if i'm right or not in the following replies.

Buer · 07-07-2023 10:12AM

I don't understand the issue around Kleyn. Does anyone genuinely have a problem with him taking this call up and representing his home nation? People can have an affinity for a country. That doesn't mean they stop being Irish or English or South African. And the vast majority of people/players would do just the same. Lets not pretend otherwise. As dedicated as lads like Strauss and Stander were to their provinces and Irish rugby even when facing the nation of their births, they only played for us as they were seen as too small in SA. They went straight back there when they retired too despite being fully committed to Ireland whilst playing for us; it's their home. There's not doubt in my mind that they'll be supporting SA in the RWC.

The Irish coaches obviously saw Kleyn as surplus and not suitable for what they want to do on the field which is absolutely fair enough. The South African coaching set up saw him as having something to add to their set up and brought him in which is absolutely fair enough.

I'm not sure he'll be in their final 33 given that they appear to have sent their three front line locks ahead to NZ to prepare for next week (with Orie and Snyman also in the mix) but it is a brilliant opportunity and experience for him to represent SA regardless of whether he has a long term presence in the squad or not.

aloooof · 07-07-2023 10:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816794#Comment_120816794

Mod: Do not reply to mod warnings on thread, and particularly not with a semi-goading response like this.

If you do so again, you’ll be thread-banned for 2 weeks.

salmocab · 07-07-2023 10:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816981#Comment_120816981

I think in fairness it’s really just one person here that has a problem with him taking the call up. Plenty have opinions on the rules but that’s kinda separate.

phog · 07-07-2023 11:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816607#Comment_120816607

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

It seems that most posters here don't really see it as a mess.

Akrasia · 07-07-2023 11:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816598#Comment_120816598

You're all over the place. Kleyn didn't break any rules. At all.

He didn't do anything immoral, he was given the opportunity to play for Ireland when he qualified as a project player, that we brought in because he didn't have a prospect of making the SA national team, and he filled a position we lacked cover for.

We played him a handful of times, dropped him (unfairly IMO). He kept playing for his club, putting in extremely good performances, to the point that he was applauded internationally and gained the notice of the SA Selectors. He became eligable for his native country last year and still publically committed to Ireland saying he wanted to play for his adopted country again. It was made perfectly clear that he was not in the picture for Ireland under the current management team, so when he was called up for SA, he accepted it and is now starting his first game.

Nothing in there is an 'arrestable' offense. He's not a cheat, he's not a mercinary. And the treatement of him by some of the media and the more toxic fans on the internet is shameful.

Hank the DJ · 07-07-2023 11:34AM

It's the questioning his integrity I find a bit offensive to be honest, and saying he should have just "played better" after having his best ever season for Munster.

It's like someone is trying to get a reaction.

Best to ignore it and be thankful we have enough quality 2nd rows that we can overlook Jean.

Shehal · 07-07-2023 12:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816981#Comment_120816981

Ive no issue at all with him taking the call up, the issue is taking the call up after he already played for Ireland. Straus and Stander didnt switch to SA or from SA, not the same situation. There is no issue going back to SA.

irelandrover · 07-07-2023 12:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817750#Comment_120817750

Why do you have no issue with Fekitoa switching to Tonga? There's many people who have changed at this point.

Shehal · 07-07-2023 12:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817359#Comment_120817359

Those same people seem to see Irish caps as dispensable and not very valuable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817405#Comment_120817405

Did I say at any time that he broke the rules? No so dont mention that again.

Well since he has now made the SA squad he clearly always had the potential to, so maybe instead of taking the easy option at the time he should have said no to an Irish call up and toughed it out. Now that an SA call up is more achievable boom he's gone taking the easy option again.

So you are saying a player that has recently said that's his dream was to play for SA said only afew months ago said he wanted to play for Ireland. That should tell you what his word is worth. I mean good luck to him but he wont be getting my approval.

Nah I think its pretty fair, just hope in the end it was all worth it.

phog · 07-07-2023 01:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817779#Comment_120817779

Those same people seem to see Irish caps as dispensable and not very valuable.

In the same way as coaches do when they hand out a 30 sec token cap at the end of a game.

Akrasia · 07-07-2023 01:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817779#Comment_120817779

Do you think JGP and James Lowe and Bundee Aki dreamed of playing for Ireland when they were growing up?

Did Kleyn ever say he used to dream of playing for Ireland when he was growing up?

Saying that he still wants to play for Ireland when he's eligible to play for ireland is not a contradiction to saying that he dreamed of playing for SA when he was a kid.

You're continuing to cast aspersions about his character. Implying that he is dishonest, or lazy, or takes the easy way out.

It's pathetic tbh

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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