Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224427#Comment_120224427

I think the Connacht example there is disingenuous though - Munster didn't lose that day because of the two Academy players in the back three, who played fine (and one of whom actually scored Munster's only try). They got blown away up front, giving away at least 3 scrum penalties in the first half alone, with a tight 5 that had Kilcoyne, Scannell, Knox, Beirne & Kleyn, with Loughman, Buckley, Archer & Edogbo coming off the bench. 4/5 of that front 5 started the massive game away to Toulouse just in Jan (and it's very possible Knox would have too had he been fit).

AdamD

It must be fairly tough for Munster, being picked on by the IRFU all of the time.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225088#Comment_120225088

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid post.

kuang1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225113#Comment_120225113

Then don't respond to it!

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217238#Comment_120217238

first point maybe but second point is untrue

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224540#Comment_120224540

For all of Connacht's scrum dominance in the first half, Munster still went in, what 8-5 up at HT.

The winning and losing of a game is rarely down to a singular thing but to me, Connacht's kicking in the 2nd half completely pinned Munster back. Someone like Shane Daly would've been extremely useful.

You might disagree; that doesn't make what I'm saying disingenuous.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225088#Comment_120225088

Mod: Please refrain from bringing Provincial BS like this into threads.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222715#Comment_120222715

The main job for the province is to promote players to Ireland to play international rugby

The same players who went on the EI tour ha spent previous seasons picking wood out of their ass from sitting on the bench, so Ireland taking them away was a huge benefit, in reality it would have been better if they done the same for the previous 3 seasons as well

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225828#Comment_120225828

This is, in the main, not true tho. At the time the squad was announced, these are the caps the players had from this article.

• Deegan 85 caps
• Shane Daly 49
• Baloucoune 47
• Penny 42
• Nash 38
• McIlroy 37
• Barron 36
• Prendergast 32
• Moore 32
• Wycherly 29

They're far from bad numbers for young players. You can add in the likes of Hodnett (22) and Ahern (21) who'd have had a lot more appearances but for injury as well.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225958#Comment_120225958

They’re still peripheral players though and the EI tour definitely brought a lot of them up the ladder, even into contention for international squads. Incorporated into the season it would have a massively beneficial impact on getting younger guys into the mix. Ireland’s weakness for a decade has been the shallowness of our bench, top teams who contend for the WC can often field two strong teams, we need to get there.

Interested Observer

Imagine having to go to these lengths to make excuses for losing to the effing Dragons. Desperate stuff.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120226211#Comment_120226211

I think you've this backwards tbh; there's a couple out of the 32 named that are, at best, peripheral to Ireland. And I think all of the players I mentioned would've gotten decent game time for their Pronvinces during the EI tour.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120226400#Comment_120226400

Munster were missing 20 players for one of the games because of injuries (10), the Farrell situation (1) and the EI tour (9). If that had just been from injuries alone, would you still be arguing it doesn't have an impact?

And again the phrase "outside a Test window" seems pretty important.

(And an aside, disagree by all means, but this skirts close to Provincial BS tbh).

Podge_irl

whether or not munster should have been able to adapt and accommodate the EI tour is one thing, but it is fairly asinine to suggest it had no impact - it very evidently did. They were missing players they would not otherwise be missing.

eagle eye

Playing for their provinces in more competitive, meaningful games gives you a far better idea of how good a player is in my opinion. If he's considered good enough to be in the Ireland squad then bring him in and if it doesn't work out so be it. I think El tour was a waste of time and resources.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227417#Comment_120227417

Couldn't disagree more. The EI tour is and was a great idea and hopefully we see more of it.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227642#Comment_120227642

Did you watch any of the EI tour games?

OldRio

All of them.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227642#Comment_120227642

I think much the same, maybe it wasn’t quite the players they wanted to bring but it took players out of their systems into a new one in different environments and I’d say the players are better off for that experience.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227913#Comment_120227913

So tell me what improvements you've seen in these players after el tour?

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229563#Comment_120229563

i didn’t say I saw improvements I said I’d say they are better off for the experience. I’d be confident that nearly every player that went is glad they did and took something away from it.

Larbre34

I'd like to say how delighted I am for the tightheads who have played such great games in these two fixtures, in Furlong's absence. He won't get that jersey back just by reporting fit.

My 23 v Italy.

15. Jimmy O'Brien

14. Mack Hansen

13. Garry Ringrose

12. Bundee Aki

11. Keith Earls

10. Ross Byrne

9. Craig Casey

1. Dave Kilcoyne

2. Ronan Kelliher

3. Tom O'Toole

4. Ian Henderson

5. James Ryan (Captain)

6. Ryan Baird

7. Peter O'Mahony

8. Jack Conan

16. Dan Sheehan

17. Andrew Porter

18. Tadhg Furlong (if not fit, Bealham)

19. Joe McCarthy

20. Gavin Coombes

21. Jamison Gibson Park

22. Jack Crowley

23. Jordan Larmour

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227642#Comment_120227642

Nucifora has talked about looking for opportunities for an emerging ireland for younger players who aren't getting enough game time for their provinces.

A different aim to the last EI tour.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225958#Comment_120225958

You can kid yourself all you want, issue is a number of these players had got limited access to rugby in previous seasons and the EI tour was hugely high profile for them, with a number now rewarded with getting into the main squad

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229832#Comment_120229832

Crazy team to pick based on Italy form v France

Of course tomorrow might be different but italy normally have a nightmare v England in twickers

Ireland should not under estimate italy and based on how Farrell has coached Ireland so far I doubt he will.....plus if Furlong is fit this would be ideal game to give him game time after an extended period on the sidelines. Both Scotland and England will be very competitive and Furlong is World Class player and should be considered even after the excellent games from Bealham

Also Earls? unless he is ripping it up in training then from a provincial point of view he hasn't done enough to deserve a start, and I love Earls but we need to reward players for form

Do we know the extent of Sheehan's injury?

thebaz

I was very sceptical when Farrell took over after the last WC no show , expected more of the same , got to say 3 years later what an incredible job he is doing , bringing POC on board seamed to add that winning edge, but he is has put his own winning style on the team - brilliant , actually feal confident (again) going into this WC , we could finally do something , and break that hoodoo - such an all round strong team - and the perfect sendoff for Johnny

CIARAN_BOYLE

I suspect we won't see full scale rotation for the Italy game. With a week off before and a week off after it would see anyone rested going into the last couple of games quiet cold.

I'd give a group of bench players a start moving starters to the bench mostly.

Tommysocks11

Great win but thought o mahony was poor, other 2 back rowers seemed to be everywhere buy he was anonymous really and conan really improved back row when introduced

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120230312#Comment_120230312

I've just listed the prvincial caps of some of the players involved at the time the tour was named. Which players in particular do you think got limited acces too rugby in previous season that makes it seem to you like I'm "kidding myself"?