Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

aloooof · 09-02-2023 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219874#Comment_120219874

Mod: Cop on.

LRind2008 · 09-02-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220075#Comment_120220075

Youre mad that your ludicrous opinion is being laughed at, Warwick ahead of Milne would be madness, I could hear arguments for Whycherley but absolutely not Warwick ffs lol.

Warwick is a journeyman fill gap because Ulster simply have no one better or better options are injured, Milne or Whycherley makes far more sense the bloody Warwick

09-02-2023 5:32pm

..

kuang1 · 09-02-2023 6:20pm

I didn't know who Warwick was until now.

But I like the cut of his jib.

aloooof · 09-02-2023 7:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220471#Comment_120220471

Mod: Threadbanned for 2 weeks.

Disagree by all means, but "hed be a **** moron / some opinions are bad but this is laughably bad / your ludicrous opinion" is not acceptable.

Former Former Former · 09-02-2023 8:23pm

My guess is that Milne is there because he impressed the coaches on the Emerging Ireland tour, more so than Wycherley it would seem.

No offence to the lads involved but if Warwick and Buckley didn't get so much as a squad call up when in their prime, they ain't getting one in their twilight.

aloooof · 09-02-2023 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221333#Comment_120221333

It’s not often we’re down 3 loosehead’s tho. As an aside, I think if James Cronin was still with Munster, he’d be in the conversation.

With regards Wycherly, I think he’s regressed this season and hasn’t been great at times. Still plenty young tho, so loads of scope for improvement.

ersatz · 09-02-2023 9:22pm

I thought the emerging Ireland tour was a great idea but I know others here felt it had a negative affect on the provinces without some worthwhile upside for Ireland. I'm interested in people's take on it in hindsight.

redlough · 09-02-2023 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221562#Comment_120221562

The EI tour was a huge success. The people I seen complaining about it all supported one province. The same people would be moaning and complaining about the number of players going on the EI tour if the Irish management left them out.

I said at the time even one player coming from the tour and getting into the Irelan squad would be a huge success and make the tour worthwhile, what are we up to now? 4?

aloooof · 10-02-2023 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221584#Comment_120221584

The people I seen complaining about it all supported one province.

That's not my impression at all tbh. In fact I'd say the oppposite; in the main, the set of supporters who had no problem with the EI tour were generally from one province. The one that had the most depth to deal with it.

The issue people had with it is that, however successful it would be for Ireland, it was at the expense of the provinces outside a Test window. Imo, that last part makes the criticism pretty reasonable tbh.

Podge_irl · 10-02-2023 9:41am

The EI tour has clearly benefitted a number of players who went on it, and Ireland overall I would say.

Still not a massive fan of it for the impact on the provinces.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2023 10:39am

TBH, none of the provinces really suffered as a result of the EI tour. Results held up just fine.

irelandrover · 10-02-2023 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222997#Comment_120222997

Munster lost to Dragons, missed a home bonus point against Zebre, and lost to Connacht. Me and you have very different definitions of fine.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223033#Comment_120223033

This is correlation, not causation. The EI tour had no impact.

irelandrover · 10-02-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223111#Comment_120223111

I didn't say that the EI tour was the cause of the bad results. You said results were fine, I disagree.

And you cannot possibly say that the EI tour had no impact. No one can know that.

aloooof · 10-02-2023 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223111#Comment_120223111

The EI tour had no impact.

I'm not sure how you can guage that with any certainty, FFF?

phog · 10-02-2023 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223111#Comment_120223111

No impact on results, maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure you or I can prove this one way or the other but one impact was that Munster under the new coaches had a longer journey time in bringing in new plays into their game as the preseason started without the Internationals and then as they were drip fed back we lost players to the EI so it was well into the season before the full squad could meet, train and learn as a squad.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2023 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223140#Comment_120223140

I can make a pretty good fist of it tbh.

This is the side that went to the Dragons and lost. The Dragons. A team who hadn't won at home for 18 months.

Mike Haley; Keith Earls, Malakai Fekitoa, Dan Goggin, Simon Zebo; Ben Healy, Craig Casey; Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony (C), Jack O’Sullivan

Scott Buckley, Liam O’Connor, Keynan Knox, Edwin Edogbo, Tadhg Beirne, Paddy Patterson, Joey Carbery, Liam Coombes.

Who among that 23 is not good enough to hold their own against the Dragons?

A very similar team lined out against Zebre. Somehow the EI tour didn't prevent them racing into a 21-0 lead after 20 minutes, but did prevent them kicking on from there? OK...

Whatever happened in the early part of the season, the EI tour wasn't the root cause. Far more likely the bedding in of new coaches was the issue.

Interested Observer · 10-02-2023 11:38am

Never would have thought Kilcoyne was near 50 caps. Well done to him. Ryan and Porter hitting 50 at ages 26/27, both will sail past 100 caps. If they stay fit either could end up our record caps holder. Both playing in positions where they're probably a few years still of what would be generally be considered peak for that position.

aloooof · 10-02-2023 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223199#Comment_120223199

Whatever happened in the early part of the season, the EI tour wasn't the root cause. Far more likely the bedding in of new coaches was the issue.

I agree with that; but it doesn't follow that, due to that, the EI tour had no impact. The bedding in of the coaches can have been the (main) cause and the EI tour can still have had an impact too.

Both those things can be true.

Akrasia · 10-02-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222715#Comment_120222715

A lot of the players Munster lost to that tour would have been playing in those games that we lost at the start of the season. We had to bring senior players back early and they didn't get a chance to complete pre-season

Munster have been chasing those points ever since and are still in a precarious position in the league re qualification for Europe next year.

So, while it benefitted the Irish camp, it did that at the expense of the provinces who had been planning on using those players.

Akrasia · 10-02-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223199#Comment_120223199

A lot of those players were not due to play that game, they had not completed pre-season and were brought in early because the players who were prepped to play in those games were yoinked to South Africa to play warm-up matches against 2nd string teams.

phily2002 · 10-02-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223900#Comment_120223900

The tour was announced late August so they had nearly a month to prepare for this match knowing they'd be losing some of the young lads.

I think it would have had some effect but adjusting to the new game plan I'd say was the cause.

Interested Observer · 10-02-2023 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224111#Comment_120224111

Also didn't seem to bother Leinster or Ulster too much.

aloooof · 10-02-2023 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224136#Comment_120224136

It didn't bother the teams with the most established coaching tickets is another way of phrasing that. Still doesn't mean it had no impact to Munster.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2023 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224217#Comment_120224217

But the initial point (remember that) was that only fans of one province weren't annoyed about it because only one province had the depth to cope.

Whatever the problem was at Munster, it absolutely wasn't depth and the other provinces managed just fine, so the damage of the EI tour is massively overstated.

Sometimes a team just plays shite for a couple of weeks. Seems to me that's what happened here.

aloooof · 10-02-2023 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224328#Comment_120224328

But I didn't say "only one province had the depth to cope." I said "the one with the most depth to cope". There is a difference.

Munster should have done better. But equally they may have done better if they had access to the players on the EI tour.

Again, both of those things can be true.

You said the bedding in of the coaches was the issue. But you don't think the EI tour might have hampered that bedding in?

We had to field a team with 0 senior back-3 players vs Connacht for example, with Joey Carbery starting his first ever game for Munster at 15. I can't remember the last time we had 2 academy players strating in any row/unit of the team tbh. We didn't even have that against Wasps last year when we were missing 34 players, for example.

phog · 10-02-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224111#Comment_120224111

The internationals were on a rest period, they weren't with the squad and new coaches which is the point some posters are making.

phog · 10-02-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224328#Comment_120224328

But the initial point (remember that) was that only fans of one province weren't annoyed about it because only one province had the depth to cope.

No the initial point (#20410) was that "The people I seen complaining about it all supported one province." which is entirely incorrect.

Jump_In_Jack · 10-02-2023 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223199#Comment_120223199

Munster were winning until a late wonder try from Rio Dyer running it in from inside his own half to pinch the win for Dragons, he broke through a terrible effort by Fekitoa (went for a ball rip for no apparent reason instead of just smashing him) and also brushed past O'Mahony's effort, then jinked past Haley I think and outran Zebo.

Watch it from 3:10 in this highlights reel from that match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kqpujZ30QU

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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