Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Clegg

Don't have a problem with JOB deputising for Keenan really. Won't be as good, but he shares a lot of the latter's characteristics as a player.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170026#Comment_122170026

But the NIQ system was never for a player who is "at least slightly better"

It was for players like Synman/Barrett/Nankivell etc. Real quality players, that has got diluted over the years but that was the plan.

The restrictions are in place for good reason, one I agree with them.

The number of NIQ hasn't been reduced or isn't been forced to be reduced. The restrictions should and hopefully will stay in place so we don't get "slightly better" players and get real stars that can add to the provinces and the young players in the squad

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169984#Comment_122169984

I welcome it. He obviously wants to be an Olympian, which is something very special.

It's a big opportunity for Jimmy O'Brien in the URC playoffs. 11. Lowe, 14. Larmour, 15. JOB is a quality back three.

Zebo and O'Brien to me are the obvious fullback picks for the South Africa Tests, although they're probably more likely to back Frawley instead of bringing Zebo in.

aloooof

Whatever about JOB, I'd way prefer Haley at FB over Frawley.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170111#Comment_122170111

There is zero chance of it being Zebo with him having announced his impending retirement this week.

Some of my reaction to this is probably coloured by the fact I'm generally not a fan of 7s (despite recognising the obvious benefits it's brought in player development over the years).

I completely get why it's a cool thing for Hugo, but to miss the URC playoffs is a significant deal for Leinster. Missing the SA tour also significantly weakens Ireland.

I get the argument that Ireland needs to develop alternatives at 15, but that isn't an applicable argument for Leinster in the playoffs.

The final point - I think it's kind of fundamentally unfair to the 7s players who slog away throughout the seasons, and actually help to qualify the team for the tournament (for pretty lousy money tbh) that one of them will now miss out.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170111#Comment_122170111

Larmour played 15 v Scotland, so I would expect him/JOB/Frawley depending on make up of squad

phog

With the Options now available for the Summer Tour

I think the best FBs in the country are

Keenan - not available

Haley

JOB

anyone

Frawley

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170149#Comment_122170149

Larmour got in because of a late withdrawl tho, right?

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170160#Comment_122170160

Not shocked that your view is the best option is of course the Munster player.

Haley mightn't even be the best full back in Munster right now.

Mod: Post warned.

Interested Observer

There's about as much chance I'll play FB on the SA tour as Haley will.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170123#Comment_122170123

agreed.

This could open the door to Haley touring, probably will actually.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170160#Comment_122170160

Not sure what the issue with Frawley is, he had a brilliant game against La Rochelle in the QF and has been playing at 15 all season.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170017#Comment_122170017

We've capped four different players at 15 in the last twelve months.

And we've literally just given our first choice guy the summer off.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170089#Comment_122170089

Which restrictions are you saying are in place if you think the number allowed hasn't reduced? You're saying the IRFU says 'no' if the NIQ isn't of a high enough standard, is it?

You really think Leinster would be allowed to sign 6 NIQs (or 5 maybe, since project players aren't really a thing anymore) like they had in 2011 if they had the money to attract foreign signings good enough to make their strongest XXIII?

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170111#Comment_122170111

Why on earth would they bring in a retiring player, that hasn't played for Ireland in 7 years, for a summer tour?

Hopefully will see Haley and O'Brien both get an opportunity in SA.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170331#Comment_122170331

I never said 5 or 6, I said 3. 2011 is 13 years ago. Time to get past it now don't you think?

You claimed the numbers are been reduced, as far as I can see they are not.

If you think the answer is NIQ, good for you, I don't. I think 3 NIQ's of high quality if perfect to compliment the players the provinces produce themselves.

At this stage you are going in circles, I explained my point,

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170496#Comment_122170496

Why on earth would they bring in a retiring player, that hasn't played for Ireland in 7 years, for a summer tour?

He's not being serious.

Anyway, what a fantastic opportunity for Keenan. A shot at an Olympic medal, amazing.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170496#Comment_122170496

To give yourself the best shot at winning. Zebo would be ahead of Haley in my eyes. He also has a lot more international pedigree than Haley (35 caps compared to Haley's 1 game for Ireland and 1 game for England), so he'd be more likely to feel at home and hit the ground running.

They haven't shown much interest in Haley, so isn't he just as likely to be a stopgap while Keenan's unavailable?

Haley, Zebo, Shane Daly, Larmour, Frawley, JOB, Stewart Moore, Lowry, McIlroy, Lowe and Stockdale could conceivably be considered. I don't see them actually taking Zebo. It's just what I think I would do.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170544#Comment_122170544

Emmm, I'm not sure what to make of this. I said the total has been reduced slowly over quite a long time. So of course you'd have to go back in time to see when the number allowed was higher. It certainly hasn't been three forever.

I'm not advocating signing NIQs. I'm just making observations about the reality. I'd actually quite like to see a Leinster squad of fully Leinster-developed players. I think that should be a bit of a goal.

Whether the number allowed becomes a hard 2 and then is reduced even further over the coming decade is, like I said, anyone's guess. It's perfectly possible it bottoms out at 2 or 3.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170566#Comment_122170566

I'm a huge fan of Zebo but this is a summer tour at the end of a season in which Zebo retires, there's zero point in playing him.

IMHO, the summer tour should be about trying new players, different combos etc and developing existing players that wouldn't have huge amount of international caps.

I'd play Haley now, I advocated it before but unfortunately for him he was injured or just back from injury when Keenan was last unavailable. He's still the best option to replace Keenan just not the best option to bench for him.

Podge_irl

I would assume Haley and JOB both travel and the jersey is up for grabs.

I hope it's not Frawley but plenty of smarter coaches than me seem to consider him a live option there.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170686#Comment_122170686

Has Haley been involved in any squads recently? I think he is a good player but it would be a huge call to move him in after a number of years

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170720#Comment_122170720

No, but he has had bad timing with injuries so who knows how much that impacted it. But we are not exactly swimming in options - and I personally don't rate Larmour or Frawley there at international level. Frawley will travel though, so it depends on how many people they bring and what the expected cover is I guess.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170720#Comment_122170720

No; I think his lack of versatility cost him as we got closer to the RWC.

Given we're pretty much at the start of a new cycle, and with this development with Keenan, personally I think it's the perfect time to bring him back in.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170621#Comment_122170621

Wouldn't agree with "zero point", because putting your best foot forward in the here and now is important.

Farrell was defence coach when Haley was involved with Ireland in the build up to the 2019 RWC, so he would have an idea already what he is likely to add to the set up. But maybe he gets another opportunity and changes Farrell's mind.

Places will be pretty tight in the touring squad (probably 3 outhalves and 5 back three players). I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with only JOB at fullback, with Frawley covering from outhalf or Larmour/Hansen covering from the wing.

RichieRich_89

I wonder could Addison come into the reckoning now he's fit again. He's a player Farrell's turned to before, albeit briefly due to him getting injured a lot. He could also cover 13 if Ringrose is unavailable.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170854#Comment_122170854

Addison is leaving Ulster, so no.

AbusesToilets

I think it would be more likely that they would look at someone like Osborne or Mcllroy as a backup to JOB and Frawley.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170757#Comment_122170757

Part of the consideration on the squad make-up could come down to whether he intends on going 6-2 also. Frawley obviously in the driving seat for the 22 jersey if that's the case.

But ya, I think it's as close to 0% chance that Zebo gets selected as makes no difference.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170726#Comment_122170726

and I personally don't rate Larmour or Frawley there at international level.

Me neither - but they've each performed well in the opportunities that have come their way and that will carry weight with Farrell.

If JOB and Frawley travel (which is not a given, considering their injuries), then we may not bring any other dedicated FB, it's only two matches after all.