Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

Cheerful Spring2

cnocbui wrote: »

Your mental model of Iran is near non-existent. I would expect such a poor appreciation for the character and nature of a country from a 12 year old who had never read a news item on world events.

Iran has been sponsoring and fomenting terrorism for decades, particularly aimed at Israel. If I mentioned Hezbollah your response would be 'bless you'.

Iran is a rogue state, and that label has been well earned.

The last 30 years of terrorism in the west and middle east was carried out by people who believe Sunni Islam is the correct religion and all others are wrong. ISIS and Al Qeada and their proxies are known Sunni Terrorists.

Iran Shia and people from that religion haven't attacked the west for a long time. It's well known Sunni terrorist groups are backed by Saudi Arabia, UAE, Turkey and Pakistan there all allies of the United States.

Iran supports the resistance movements in Palestine. Israel seems to get off the hook for having an apartheid state next door to them. Economically it's Israel decides if they can eat and have electricity on. We didn't accept this kind of behavior in South Africa, but the US accepts it here in the Middle east.

Israel the aggressor in the region. Iran has never carried out any military action in Israel. Israel known to carry out terrorism on daily basis in Syria. Israel claims there this threat coming from Syria but it never seems to occur. Iran wanted a war with Israel they be at it already. Of course Israel doing it best for Americans to do the actual fighting for them by killing leaders in Iran. Iran smart they may wait this one out.

tjhook

I'm no fan of the Iranian leadership. But many people believe in "sauce for the goose", "an eye for an eye" and all that. I can see how Iran might now feel justified to do similar. Assassinate an important person (civilian or not) in a neighbouring country. Or in a Western state that backs a neighbouring country. It's not hard to do and now they can even argue that it's justified retaliation.

Although it may be a set-back, I doubt killing one Iranian scientist could have done serious damage to Iran's nuclear aims. I think it's more likely to open the door to tit-for-tat violence. Even if nothing happens, I wouldn't fancy being an important scientist in one of those countries now.

The big picture is that this killing has made the world more unstable, probably for little gain.

cnocbui

Donald Trump wrote: »

How many Iranians do you know?


Your own ignorance is showing through to be fair.

What a fatuous response. I don't have cancer but I haves well informed opinions about it. Have you ever lived in the Middle East?

joseywhales

silverharp wrote: »

Iran seems to be successfully neutered and economically its crumbling, may it continue until they reform, all enhanced by the thaw in relations between Israel and the Arab states. Turkey seems to be the new problem child on the block

Soon there'll be noone left, they'll have to move to a new region to terrorize and de stabilize, not that there is no iraq or syria. Add in Iran and Turkey, who will be left to interfere with? Take a crack at egypt maybe?

Gatling

Actually the only time nukes save you from invasion come true was Ukraine , Russia give us all of your nukes and we will sign a friendship and partnership treaty and you can choose your own destiny ,
A few years later russian forces invade annex and occupy other parts of Ukraine .
Would nukes stopped it possibly , possibly not

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Why does Iran need nukes ,the same reason north korea does it's not to protect nk from invasion they have Nukes to solely protect China from having a unified strong Korea next door ,and the possibility of them having American backed forces in a unified Korea ,
Iran is the same it keeps russian influence in the various stans ,nukes in one side and the other side with relative weak in-between .

Call the yanks acting as some morale police but when these countries get nukes and go full retard who's going to be expected to sort it out or defend other countries

Strange question. Why does any country have nuclear weapons? Obvious answer to stop outside aggression. The bully attacks the weak countries and if Iran had the bomb Israel would likely not be so aggressive in the region.. Iran could build a bomb in months secretly if they wanted so it all nonsense this talk.

Iran bombing Israel with a nuke unlikely. They hardly want their own country turned to ash in return. Iran wants a deterrence to prevent invasion let them have the bomb.

The real fear is rogue actors groups like Isis or similar ones get their hands on a device. Isis would use a nuclear device and not give a crap about the implications and results of that action.

Donald Trump

cnocbui wrote: »

What a fatuous response. I don't have cancer but I haves well informed opinions about it. Have you ever lived in the Middle East?

So no then. :pac:



As they say - "opinions are like ...".

ElJeffe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Strange question. Why does any country have nuclear weapons? Obvious answer to stop outside aggression. The bully attacks the weak countries and if Iran had the bomb Israel would likely not be so aggressive in the region.. Iran could build a bomb in months secretly if they wanted so it all nonsense this talk.

Iran bombing Israel with a nuke unlikely. They hardly want their own country turned to ash in return. Iran wants a deterrence to prevent invasion let them have the bomb.

The real fear is rogue actors groups like Isis or similar ones get their hands on a device. Isis would use a nuclear device and not give a crap about the implications and results of that action.

Iran funded and set up ISIS. You don't see the issue with a state like that having the bomb? It would eventually end up in the hands of one of these headhacker groupings.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iran bombing Israel with a nuke unlikely. They hardly want their own country turned to ash

More likely the scenario would be Irans get nukes , Israel decides Iran will be wiped out ,
It's that simple.

Would nukes stopped Russia occupying the whole of Eastern Europe late 40s - 90s no did Russia use the idea of challenge us and we wipe everyone out yes .
Did it solve anything no

Donald Trump

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran funded and set up ISIS. You don't see the issue with a state like that having the bomb? It would eventually end up in the hands of one of these headhacker groupings.

You have it completely arseways.

It was the US and it's allies that paved the way for ISIS/ISIL. They were handy when they were fighting Assad in Syria!!!!


Shia and Sunni Muslims are pretty strong enemies.

rockatansky

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran funded and set up ISIS. You don't see the issue with a state like that having the bomb? It would eventually end up in the hands of one of these headhacker groupings.

Did it, aye?

Cheerful Spring2

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran funded and set up ISIS. You don't see the issue with a state like that having the bomb? It would eventually end up in the hands of one of these headhacker groupings.

Really? You need to read a history book as it well known ISIS emerged in the North of Iraq to do battle with the Shia recognized government in Iraq. Iran militias and Iraq forces were fighting an imaginary enemy in Mosul? ISIS then attacked Assad forces in Syria a country backed by Iran and the civil war there expanded. Claiming Iran funded ISIS is something you read in a Comedy book.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Really? You need to read a history book .

Which history books would you recommend exactly.

Donald Trump

Here is a link from NY Times from 2012 about most of the arms aid being sent via Saudi and Qatar to fight against Assad were going to Jihadist groups (i.e. that later became part of ISIL/ISIS)
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists-receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all

And Turkey, another ally of the US, was frequently rebuked for allowing and facilitating ISIS fighters to slip back and forth across its border into Syria.

Yet now you have eejits claiming that ISIS were some sort of product of Iran. Mental stuff. ISIS would have wanted to destroy Iran and its regime even more than the US or Israel


Edit: Another link about same article as one above may be firewalled https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/rebel-arms-flow-is-said-to-benefit-jihadists-in-syria/

The United States is not sending arms directly to the Syrian opposition. Instead, it is providing intelligence and other support for shipments of secondhand light weapons like rifles and grenades into Syria, mainly orchestrated from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The reports indicate that the shipments organized from Qatar, in particular, are largely going to hard-line Islamists. . . .

American officials have been trying to understand why hard-line Islamists have received the lion’s share of the arms shipped to the Syrian opposition through the shadowy pipeline with roots in Qatar, and, to a lesser degree, Saudi Arabia. The officials, voicing frustration, say there is no central clearinghouse for the shipments, and no effective way of vetting the groups that ultimately receive them.

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Which history books would you recommend exactly.

Maybe watch some documentaries from the region. It's well known Soleimani came to Iraq to help the Iraq government and Kurds fight ISIS. The Kurds condemned the murder of Soleimani by US forces, as they knew Iran stopped that genocide of their people. Frankly, US forces did not want to destroy ISIS until the Russian airforce came to Syria and started bombing them. Only then it seemed to dawn on them: the Russians were playing the good guys. People seem to forget the head choppers were only 50km from Damascus and were only weeks before the country fell to them, a win for the US and its allies. Russia saw the evitable threat coming from Syria and joined to prevent that.

Mad_maxx

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran funded and set up ISIS. You don't see the issue with a state like that having the bomb? It would eventually end up in the hands of one of these headhacker groupings.

why would IRAN set up a fundamentalist Sunni terror group ?

rapul

Mad_maxx wrote: »

why would IRAN set up a fundamentalist Sunni terror group ?

Absolute nonsense

myfreespirit

To poster Donald Trump:
You made a claim that "If they [Iran] weren't being threatened with destruction all the time by external forces..."

You have not responded to a question about your source for this claim - do you have reliable evidence that some sources are planning the destruction of Iran, and if so, what are these sources?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Maybe watch some documentaries from the region. It's well known Soleimani came to Iraq to help the Iraq government and Kurds fight ISIS. The Kurds condemned the murder of Soleimani by US

Iran stopped that genocide of their people. Frankly,

US forces did not want to destroy ISIS until the Russian airforce came to Syria and started bombing them.

No the Iranians wanted to put their proxies into Iraq to they have a permanent presence in the country they consider to be an enemy and counter American presence which was drawing down,

Seriously stop watching RT and Sputnik ****e

Zebra3

myfreespirit wrote: »

Mr. Fakhrizadeh was named in the Guardian as a brigadier general in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps; this alone makes him a legitimate target for assassination, considering the thuggish nature of the Revolutionary Guard. Added to that fact, he was a leader of the Iranian nuclear program.
No one can seriously believe the current Iranian regime when they claim that the program is peaceful in nature.

The killing is in my opinion justified given the circumstances and the threats made by Iran to Israel.

(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/mohsen-fakhrizadeh-iranian-nuclear-scientist-reportedly-shot-dead-near-tehran)

So an English newspaper says something about someone and that's an ok to murder them?

You've a truly warped mind.

myfreespirit

Zebra3 wrote: »

So an English newspaper says something about someone and that's an ok to murder them?

You've a truly warped mind.

Shall we try the German Deutsche Welle website information about the Revolutionary Guard (IRGC)?

"The group oversees Iran's ballistic missile program and has conducted several tests since the nuclear deal. Its missiles can reach Israel and in March 2016 it launched a ballistic missile with the words "Israel must be wiped out" in Hebrew.
Source: https://m.dw.com/en/what-is-irans-revolutionary-guard/a-40948522

From wikipedia:
"The European Union has already sanctions in place on the IRGC, though it is not designated as a terrorist group as such.

The Basij (part of IRGC) serve as an auxiliary force engaged in activities such as internal security as well as law enforcement auxiliary, the providing of social service, organizing of public religious ceremonies, and as morality police and the suppression of dissident gatherings."

The IRGC are undoubtedly scoundrels of the deepest dye, the action to disrupt their activities is fully justified IMHO.

Or maybe you believe that all of the above is western propaganda?

Gatling

Zebra3 wrote: »

So an English newspaper says something about someone and that's an ok to murder them?

You've a truly warped mind.

Didn't they say something similar about Soleimani ,

We all know how that ended ,

a better place

kildare lad

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran funded and set up ISIS. You don't see the issue with a state like that having the bomb? It would eventually end up in the hands of one of these headhacker groupings.

That's the biggest load of horsesh*t I've heard . Since most of iranians are Shia , I doubt theyd be joining isis. Most of isis are sunni muslims , it's actually the Shia muslims who are fighting them.
Btw all the hijackers who flew in the world trade center were sunni arabs from Saudi arabia . Are you from the george bush school of taught when it comes to the middle east.

Zebra3

myfreespirit wrote: »

Shall we try the German Deutsche Welle website information about the Revolutionary Guard (IRGC)?

"The group oversees Iran's ballistic missile program and has conducted several tests since the nuclear deal. Its missiles can reach Israel and in March 2016 it launched a ballistic missile with the words "Israel must be wiped out" in Hebrew.
Source: https://m.dw.com/en/what-is-irans-revolutionary-guard/a-40948522

From wikipedia:
"The European Union has already sanctions in place on the IRGC, though it is not designated as a terrorist group as such.

The Basij (part of IRGC) serve as an auxiliary force engaged in activities such as internal security as well as law enforcement auxiliary, the providing of social service, organizing of public religious ceremonies, and as morality police and the suppression of dissident gatherings."

The IRGC are undoubtedly scoundrels of the deepest dye, the action to disrupt their activities is fully justified IMHO.

Or maybe you believe that all of the above is western propaganda?

I was pointing out that you said because he was named in the Guardian it was acceptable to murder him.

Not sure what your response to me has to do with any of that.

grassylawn

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I wonder if the British will call for boycotts of the country responsible? Or do they only do that when Russia is involved?

Criticising Israel in the UK seems to result in being painted as an anti-semite, a la Corbyn.

grassylawn

How credible is Iran's claim that they want to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes? Would their level of investment in it make sense if they genuinely are only trying to develop power sources?

I'm guessing that it's not very credible. Wikpedia says they#ve made losses of 500 billion as a result of ploughing ahead with the nuclear programme, aside from the money they invested into it.

Jimbob1977

The younger generation in Iran want change and to normalise relations with the West and their neighbours.

Iran is an industrious and highly educated country.

Unfortunately most people associate Iran with terrorism and religious fanaticism.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Islamic Republic was overthrown by street protests or softened by reformers in the next ten years.

CinemaGuy45

Donald Trump

myfreespirit wrote: »

To poster Donald Trump:
You made a claim that "If they [Iran] weren't being threatened with destruction all the time by external forces..."

You have not responded to a question about your source for this claim - do you have reliable evidence that some sources are planning the destruction of Iran, and if so, what are these sources?

Are you taking the piss? In a thread where (presumably) external governments are assassinating its scientists and military leaders?




https://www.politico.eu/article/ahead-of-peace-meeting-in-warsaw-netanyahu-threatens-war-with-iran/

As officials from dozens of nations gathered for the U.S.-sponsored event in the Polish capital Wednesday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted a tweet threatening war with Iran.
Proclaiming the historic importance of the event, the Israeli prime minister’s official account tweeted: “This is an open meeting with representatives of leading Arab countries, that are sitting down together with Israel in order to advance the common interest of war with Iran.”

What are you going to do? Play around with semantics?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1305704032988622848


Assassinate one of their top military people and then basically threaten them with annihilation if they respond to it?


That's like me walking up to a 6 year old and poking him over and over in the eyes and "reasonably" telling everyone that if he retaliates I'm going to smash every bone in his body and expecting people to think he started it :pac:



Do you not even remember that a certain President threatened the destruction of cultural sites (and was called out on it as it would most definitely be considered a war crime under international law)

end of the road

Pkiernan wrote: »

Irans record on minority rights is appalling

agreed, and that needs to change.
however, saudi arabia also has a horrible human rights record and israel isn't known for having a good human rights record either, due to it's breaches of possibly every single international and human rights law.
yet for some reason that's fine apparently, well according to governments anyway.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Iran stockpiled 12x the nuclear material its agreement with the West allowed.

unfortunate but tbh if other countries can have such material then so can iran.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Nuclear proliferation is not a good thing.

it's not, agreed.
however until the main nuclear powers give up theirs they don't really have any right to dictate to others.
either all give up nuclear weapons or they keep them and deal with the reality that other countries will acquire them.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Yet the left wing snake that is eating itself thinks its OK for Itan to build nuclear weapons.

no, we don't think it's okay, but rather we recognise that if others can do it then unfortunately we cannot dictate to iran that they can't do the same.

Pkiernan wrote: »

The protestation here is just wokeflake virtue signalling.

No better than the Irish BLM folks who don't care about the poor black people slaughtered by Government forces in Africa, or Muslims in concentration camps in China. Not cool enough for 1st year Arts Students apparently .

that's just an irrelevant whataboutery rant with no substance to it what soever.
presumably you have done a survey to gauge and show that blm don't care about black africans being slaughtered or muslims being held in concentration camps in china? i doubt it some how.
lets face it, you aren't exactly known for caring about the plight of muslims or black africans, so it's perhapse best if you avoid judging others by your standards.
by the way there has been plenty of condemnation for china's actions and there have been plenty from this country who have gone out to volunteer in africa over the decades, among many other countries.
not to mention that only governments have the power to deal with china or try and get other countries to change their ways, a protester in ireland can do little to nothing to stop a country like china who has one of the most apauling human rights records in the world from doing what they do.