Labour want to bring back auto-birthright citizenship

ILoveYourVibes

Gervais08 wrote: »

It absolutely is if they arrived here illegally or their parents did.

All of our ancestors arrived here illegally. Come off it.

Yurt2

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

All of our ancestors arrived here illegally. Come off it.

Yeah the Normans were a right laugh. Heard their cuisine really took off around Portobello and Rathmines. Cromwell too - the New Model Army take on the vindaloo really took the country by storm.

Gervais08

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

All of our ancestors arrived here illegally. Come off it.

You’re clutching at massive straws now, it’s pathetic.

DelaneyIn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

All of our ancestors arrived here illegally. Come off it.

Our ancestors built this national. Theirs didn’t.

Beasty

Posts deleted

Please think about the terms you use as posters can very easily take offence around here

Any questions, PM me - do not respond to this post in thread

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

All of our ancestors arrived here illegally. Come off it.

Which laws were arrivals ca. 5,000 BC breaking?

Pray do tell.

TomTomTim

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Which laws were arrivals ca. 5,000 BC breaking?

Pray do tell.

Said poster claimed to be Jewish in the past, so I think he/she is just a wind up merchant.

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

25% of children born in Ireland were non nationals? That sounds very high where are you getting the figure from

https://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

One in four children in Ireland are born to a non-Irish mother
A new study by Trinity College Dublin has also found that migrant parents face a greater risk of poverty.
Aug 1st 2014

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

In fairness, some of those "non-nationals" could be from other EU/EEA states.

Whilst we should be humane and look after the welfare of the child and mother when born, if there are no issues health-wise and they are there illegally, a one way ticket back out should be in order.

mohawk

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If someone has been here all their life ..its not right to deport them.

I can see where you coming from, however parents should consider such things when having children.

I have a few friends in Oz who waited until after becoming citizens before having children.
I had a relative who was illegal in the USA and used to complain about not being able to visit family in Ireland and that they had no security. They made the choice to outstay a visa and had to live with consequences of that decision.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

Those two stats don't mean the same thing, though there will obviously be signigicant overlap.


I have two kids, both born to a non-Irish mother, who fit in one group but not the other.


There is also the 'born outside the state' statistic, and one of my kids fits in that group also.


But both are Irish citizens since birth.


There is some conflation of these terms which muddies the waters a little - but only a little I'd guess.

marieholmfan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If someone has been here all their life ..its not right to deport them.

Maybe - but in that case we need a framework to deport the parents.

marieholmfan

It would be handy if they could consider the difference between state and island in these things.

osarusan wrote: »

Those two stats don't mean the same thing, though there will obviously be signigicant overlap.


I have two kids, both born to a non-Irish mother, who fit in one group but not the other.


There is also the 'born outside the state' statistic, and one of my kids fits in that group also.


But both are Irish citizens since birth.


There is some conflation of these terms which muddies the waters a little - but only a little I'd guess.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

Yeah, but how do you break down those numbers? I know and have known a fair few non Irish women who had kids with Irish fathers here, all but two(New Zealander/Russian) are from the EU and are all White Europeans in background, so not too many issues with integration as far as standing out goes anyway.

the butcher

Labour trying to create the perfect conditions for a future Irish Donald Trump.

weldoninhio

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If someone has been here all their life ..its not right to deport them.

If Irish parents decide to emigrate, should they be forced to remain if any of their u-18 offspring don’t want to go?

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

If Irish parents decide to emigrate, should they be forced to remain if any of their u-18 offspring don’t want to go?

what a terrible analogy.

Rodin

Labour are wasting their time.

The majority don't believe everyone born here is Irish just as they don't believe a man can become a woman or a woman become a man. No matter how many fools tell us otherwise.

Rodin

Donald Trump wrote: »

Genuine question then. What do they do to the obese girl with the big belly wearing loose clothes? I doubt the people checking or boarding them whip out the rubber glove for a summary examination.


If a pregnant woman gets on the plane and, if questioned, just insists she is fat, what would or could they do?

Sideroom, a cup and a stick

Donald Trump

Rodin wrote: »

Sideroom, a cup and a stick

Well there was an outrage thread on here about some woman transiting through the Middle East being subjected to an examination.


So I reckon that if a heavily pregnant woman gets on a plane and just insists that she is fat and not pregnant, she's not going to be stopped for not having a letter from her doctor saying she is less than 30 weeks or whatever.


The rule about having a letter is great in theory for the law abiding honest people...but it won't stop the person who you might actually want to stop.

Galwayguy35

The Yanks seem to be able to manage to keep out the knocked up visitors who want to drop their cargo on US soil.

They have to prove before going there how far along they are and if it is too near the birth date they don't get in.

Galwayguy35

It's a bit concerning to know that the referendum result could be overturned in the Dail, I don't remember this being mentioned during the debate at the time.

Loopholes like that should have been shored up at the time before we voted so the referendum result could never be challenged.

L1011

Rodin wrote: »

Labour are wasting their time.

The last polling on this issue had 71% in support of reinstatement. It is from two years ago.

Boards, and this forum in particular, are not vaguely representative of Irish voters.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's a bit concerning to know that the referendum result could be overturned in the Dail, I don't remember this being mentioned during the debate at the time.

Loopholes like that should have been shored up at the time before we voted so the referendum result could never be challenged.

The return of power to provide for further options to the Oireachtas was obvious from the text. Its not a loophole, its exactly what was intended.

I say return, as prior to the Belfast Agreement referendum in 1999, the entire power for defining citizenship rested with the Oireachtas. It was the clauses added to work around the dropping of the territorial claim on Northern Ireland that added this. We had birthright citizenship via legislation rather than constitution for decades prior.

The Oireachtas using its power to define other options is not challenging the result of a referendum explicitly intended to give it the right to do so.

Signore Fancy Pants

Dear Labour Party,

Go f*ck yerselves.

Rgds,

Me.

Yurt2

L1011 wrote: »

The last polling on this issue had 71% in support of reinstatement. It is from two years ago.

That poll was conducted right off the back of the hard-case and surrounding the kid in Bray. The publicity around it was a major gaslighting excercise. The mother was served a deportation order because she committed passport fraud, and the people asking for the minister to quash the order got upset when that was revealed. Cry me a river. She should have been on a plane back to Fujian (I'll bet my bottom dollar she's from that province as well). She sealed her kid's fate by committing a serious act of fraud.


We don't make legislation off undercooked Sunday Times polls. Nor should we.

L1011

Yurt! wrote: »

We don't make legislation off undercooked Sunday Times polls. Nor should we.

I'd be fairly certain there'll be future (imminent, probably) polling on this issue; as multiple parties are proposing or supporting it now.

I'd be very surprised if there is less than 50% support for reinstatement even now at a distance to any hard case examples.

This forum and its equivalent predecessors (it replaced the less strictly serious Politics sub-forums, primarily - the AH cleanup element is only part of it) have generally held significantly harder line opinions on social issues than the general populace as anyone around here long enough to remember them will know. There was virulent opposition (in the non-AH forums) to Civil Partnership even, and people sure in 2014 that the SSM referendum would be rejected by a huge margin.

weldoninhio

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what a terrible analogy.

Why? Ireland will be all the child knows. That’s what we’re told when we try to deport criminals.

Yurt2

L1011 wrote: »

I'd be fairly certain there'll be future (imminent, probably) polling on this issue; as multiple parties are proposing or supporting it now.

I'd be very surprised if there is less than 50% support for reinstatement even now at a distance to any hard case examples.

I'd be unmoved if 80+% of people polled favoured reinstatement of jus soli. Even if it were reinstated by the Oireachtas, it wouldn't be long again before it's back on the table after a complete sh*t show of everyone wanting EU residency flooding here. It's seriously a pandora's box we don't want to open.


I'll repeat, for various reasons I'm opposed to jus soli for Ireland, but above all, it will make our immigration system a complete joke and the preferred point of entry for chancers worldwide.

L1011

Yurt! wrote: »

I'd be unmoved if 80+% of people polled favoured reinstatement of jus soli. Even if it were reinstated by the Oireachtas, it wouldn't be long again before it's back on the table after a complete sh*t show of everyone wanting EU residency flooding here. It's seriously a pandora's box we don't want to open.


I'll repeat, for various reasons I'm opposed to jus soli for Ireland, but above all, it will make our immigration system a complete joke and the preferred point of entry for chancers worldwide.

So why bother attempting to discredit the polling if it has no impact on your opinion?

I don't feel that either the current system - allowing people who consider themselves entirely British to dig up a passport via a granny to escape from a disaster of their own voting - or direct jus soli are the answer here.

But there is almost certainly public support for changing from the current system despite an exceptionally one-sided thread on here.

Yurt2

L1011 wrote: »

So why bother attempting to discredit the polling if it has no impact on your opinion?

I don't feel that either the current system - allowing people who consider themselves entirely British to dig up a passport via a granny to escape from a disaster of their own voting - or direct jus soli are the answer here.

But there is almost certainly public support for changing from the current system despite an exceptionally one-sided thread on here.

Because precisely around then there was a noisy bleeding heart campaign around the case for a passport fraudster.

If the poll question had been posed 'do you think that non-nationals found to have committed passport fraud should be deported?' what do you think the reported response would be then?

Privately, and people often don't answer honestly in polls for psycholgical reasons (see shy-Tory effect), I guarantee that a majority of Irish are opposed to jus soli. In the quiet privacy of a polling booth in 2004, people made their true opinions known.