Labour want to bring back auto-birthright citizenship

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Plenty. but l'll stand by what I said. Just because politicians are in power doesn't mean that they can, or should do whatever they want. The referendum showed them where the interests of the people are...

your position is nonsense.

Wibbs

BIG GUNZ wrote: »

Change the demographics of Ireland and create more labour voters in the process.

Even if they believed that it wouldn't work. For a start even in the most long standing diverse nation in Europe the non natives are themselves diverse in outlook, political and otherwise and a minority. Secondly among those demographics the ones who are more successful and integrated are as likely if not more so to vote more conservatively. I'd say this drive by Labour and others is just attention and virtue seeking.

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

The labour party arent in power?


Legisaltion in breach of the constitution wont pass a supreme court challenge(in theory shouldnt be signed into law by president)

,but i do feel such legislation would be in breach of spirit of said referendum,and should be put to people of the country to vote on?

Nothing should be changed in the constitution. That is where the real danger arises. Maybe you mean have some sort of plebiscite in relation to changing the law at the legislative level?



It can be legislated for. It would not be against the constitution to pass such a law. The constitution spells out your basic rights. It is not an exhaustive and exclusive list of everything you are entitled to at that point in time.



I don't think it would pass (and I would hope it would not) but if it did, then it could be reversed quickly and the politicians could suffer the consequences at the next election.

Gervais08

BIG GUNZ wrote: »

Change the demographics of Ireland and create more labour voters in the process.

Worked in the UK - can see them trying that ****e here.

Mad_maxx

suicide_circus wrote: »

What is the impetus behind this drive to overturn the referendum result?

same reason a lot of FF voters made pilgrimiges to Lourdes back in the day

WOKENESS is a religion , whats to be gained is irrelevant , its about a feeling and it feels virtuous

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The labour party arent in power?


Legisaltion in breach of the constitution wont pass a supreme court challenge(in theory shouldnt be signed into law by president)

,but i do feel such legislation would be in breach of spirit of said referendum,and should be put to people of the country to vote on?

Michael D would ratify that bad boy so quick his pen would be on fire

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Michael D would ratify that bad boy so quick his pen would be on fire

Unless there are genuine constitutional concerns he is obliged to do so.

ThunbergsAreGo

Would the EU not br genuinely pissed at us if we brought this in?

ohnonotgmail

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Would the EU not br genuinely pissed at us if we brought this in?

none of their business.

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

Nowhere anywhere did i say,they should change the constitution?

Ok. Given that you used it in the same sentence as referendum I misinterpreted that as being that you wanted another referendum.


In reality, the only decisions people vote on here though are referenda. And a referendum in the Irish context specifically means a vote to change the constitution. There are no other forms of direct democracy here.

Donald Trump

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Would the EU not br genuinely pissed at us if we brought this in?

They might be happy enough in the short term to have a massive draw out to an island on the Western periphery for their own illegals.




If France is spending money dealing with and trying to round up chancers over there....they might be happy that the Irish government will entice a few of them over and give them status and residency and eventually citizenship....saves the French from having to deal with them.....the chancer might return after getting naturalised in Ireland but by then they might be too comfortable here

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Unless there are genuine constitutional concerns he is obliged to do so.

Well undermining the spirit of the amendment would definitely be a concern

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well undermining the spirit of the amendment would definitely be a concern

the language in the amendment is very plain. a similar clause was included in the abortion referendum. the people gave the oireachtas the right to amend the law around citizenship as it sees fit.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

BIG GUNZ wrote: »

You could be right though I believe Labour in the UK had similar strategy.

I firmly believe they want to reduce the white Irish population though.

Adolf Hitler had similar engineered strategies to eliminate certain populations.

This one is targeted at white Irish. You can't be racist against whites though.

AlanG

BIG GUNZ wrote: »

Change the demographics of Ireland and create more labour voters in the process.

As Biden discovered in Florida quite a lot of immigrants, especially second generation want strong immigration control. Like the Irish in the US they want exceptions for their own but they are generally against uncontrolled immigration. I can't see this wining many votes outside of twitter.

Wibbs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

none of their business.

Of course it's their business. Getting an Irish passport automatically means free movement throughout the EU. It would be a major draw for illegal immigrants in other EU countries.

fly_agaric

Change the demographics of Ireland and create more labour voters in the process.

Adolf Hitler had similar engineered strategies to eliminate certain populations.

Out come the far right conspiracy theories.
Such rubbish ends useful discussion on the issue of Labour pushing this stuff no matter how unpopular it is with most voters they want to win over.

The real reasons are alot more prosaic. It ("open borders" or more exactly obligations of "rich" Western countries to offer residence & citizenship to as many people from poorer countries as they can) is a sort of article of faith of activists/most politicians on the Left.

Also Labour lost that referendum, people who are in the party that are still around could still be sore about that defeat (given how much they thought they were on the side of the angels). I remember quite alot of anger from politicians on the opposing side about that referendum result and a shock at how resounding it was.

Wibbs

What Fly said. The demographic change nonsense is well, nonsense.

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the language in the amendment is very plain. a similar clause was included in the abortion referendum. the people gave the oireachtas the right to amend the law around citizenship as it sees fit.

If somebody of a minority party, not in government tried to undermine the repealing of the 8th and table a bill to make abortion illegal or very very hard to obtain , completely undermining (albeit legally) the referendum result how would you feel ?

OneEightSeven

AlanG wrote: »

As Biden discovered in Florida quite a lot of immigrants, especially second generation want strong immigration control. Like the Irish in the US they want exceptions for their own but they are generally against uncontrolled immigration. I can't see this wining many votes outside of twitter.

Not true. Trump only did well among Cuban-America because of their aversion to left wing politics. Trump went around calling Biden a socialist. Trump got 54% from Cuban-America voters in Florida in 2016.

OneEightSeven

Wibbs wrote: »

What Fly said. The demographic change nonsense is well, nonsense.

It's working for the SDP in Germany

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If somebody of a minority party, not in government tried to undermine the repealing of the 8th and table a bill to make abortion illegal or very very hard to obtain , completely undermining (albeit legally) the referendum result how would you feel ?

You do know that any party can table a bill to change our abortion legislation? That the amendment we voted on was specifically written to allow that? if a party introduced such a bill it would not be undermining the result, it would be respecting the result. You keep using the word undermine and I dont think you understand what it means.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

What Fly said. The demographic change nonsense is well, nonsense.

Thats being a bit blind. Demographic change is happening and has happened.

According to the 2016 Irish census, there were 63,443 Muslims living in the Republic of Ireland,[9] representing a 29% increase over the figures for the 2011 census.

Fast paced change, with high growth rates

There were 10,884 children of primary school-going age (5-12 year olds) among the Muslim community in Ireland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#:~:text=According%20to%20the%202016%20Irish%20census%2C%20there%20were%2063%2C443%20Muslims,and%20those%20of%20no%20religion.

Which puts them at 1.9% of the population when then current crop of kids grow up.....if the population doesnt grow (remember they grew by 29% between the 2011 and 2016 census).

Census 2016 shows the population of the primary school age group (5-12) stood at 548,693

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp3oy/cp3/agr/#:~:text=Census%202016%20shows%20the%20population,8.8%20per%20cent%20since%202011.&text=Fingal%20saw%20the%20largest%20increase,13.6%20per%20cent%20to%2011%2C591.

Throw in some growth and we`ll be close to the UKs current 4.4%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Islam%20is%20the%20second%20largest,in%202018%20as%203%2C372%2C966%2C%205.1

You have to ask yourself:
What % is ok? 2%,4%, 10%? 50%?

What % would allow an islamic party to hold the balance of power? At least Ireland will witness, years in advance, that happening elsewhere in Europe before it could ever happen here.

or maybe you take the position that no limit to the growth is ok.

If you think there should be a limit then you must want some way of controlling the intake.

Wibbs

The UK's 4% is still a small minority, and most of it clustered in urban centres. There's zero sign of any great replacement that is all too often trotted out as some grand plan. That's my point.

As for limits: personally I'd remove DP and have a simple setup at every port coming in here. Don't have a passport or ID, then feck off. I'd even go so far as to remove those people who came in here during the boom with anchor babies in tow, if they can't demonstrate working for a living and contributing to Irish society in the interim. And many have an fair enough, but we don't need to import any more underclass because they happen to be exotic. I'd remove the Irish navy from taxi service in the Mediterranean too. I'd set up an enquiry into the host of NGO's pushing this nonsense. I'd massively restrict social welfare to non Irish/EU citizens. On this multicultural stuff I'm somewhere to the right of Mussolini, however the replacement stuff is tin foil hat territory as far as I'm concerned and dilutes and makes it all to easy to deflect from the actual problems of this diversity drive.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

the UK's 4% is still a small minority, and most of it clustered in urban centres. There's zero sign of any great replacement that is all too often trotted out as some grand plan. That's my point...

The replacement stuff is tin foil hat territory as far as I'm concerned and dilutes and makes it all to easy to deflect from the actual problems of this diversity drive.

At a UK "macro" level, the 4% is arguably not population replacement. The numbers are hidden in the overall population. Drill into cities, its more obvious.
While its not engineered, its certainly a demographic change, that will change the face of Britain.

Demographic change between 2001 and 2011*:
(population change is even more worrying/encouraging)

(From 2011 census)
Bradford: 6th biggest UK city
White: 67% (-11% change from 2001)
Aisan/Asian British: 27% (+8%)
Black/Black British: 2% (+1%)

Birmingham: 2nd biggest UK city
White 58% (-12%)
Aisan/Asian British: 29% (+7%)
Black/Black British: 9%(+3%)

London
White 60% (-11%)
Aisan/Asian British: 18% (+5%)
Black/Black British: 13%(+3%)


Pick any city; "Gammon" is heading for the hills/countryside, leaving urban areas for the "New British"


*someone might need to check those

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

AlanG wrote: »

As Biden discovered in Florida quite a lot of immigrants, especially second generation want strong immigration control. Like the Irish in the US they want exceptions for their own but they are generally against uncontrolled immigration. I can't see this wining many votes outside of twitter.

The Latinos in Florida are a bit of an outlier. You've got the Cubans who get benefits other immigrants don't, and the Colombians who hate FARC and love fascist paramilitaries, so they'll always vote for Trump.

TomTomTim

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

The Latinos in Florida are a bit of an outlier. You've got the Cubans who get benefits other immigrants don't, and the Colombians who hate FARC and love fascist paramilitaries, so they'll always vote for Trump.

It's almost like groups who grew up in countries with many Marxists, ended up hating them passionately, and justly so. Marxists are dangerous and reckless, they should be viewed with the same contempt that is far right is.

Arthur Daley

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Demographic change between 2001 and 2011*:
(population change is even more worrying/encouraging)

(From 2011 census)
Bradford: 6th biggest UK city
White: 67% (-11% change from 2001)
Aisan/Asian British: 27% (+8%)
Black/Black British: 2% (+1%)

Birmingham: 2nd biggest UK city
White 58% (-12%)
Aisan/Asian British: 29% (+7%)
Black/Black British: 9%(+3%)

London
White 60% (-11%)
Aisan/Asian British: 18% (+5%)
Black/Black British: 13%(+3%)


Pick any city; "Gammon" is heading for the hills/countryside, leaving urban areas for the "New British"

I'd say there are some (go on at least one or two surely) in Sinn Fein and the 'Republican' movement who view this with smug satisfaction. Partially explaining SF and 'republicans' buying into the agenda to import more and more Non EU into Ireland.

There'll be a fair few who will rue the day they were lead down that path.

biko

If an Irish couple went to Nigeria and had a baby there they could not get Nigerian citizenship for their child. Nigeria doesn't have Jus Soli.


In fact Nigeria isn't an immigrant paradise by any means - they deported 2 million immigrants in the 80s.
Ask your Nigerian friends about Ghana Must Go.

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

I'd say there are some (go on at least one or two surely) in Sinn Fein and the 'Republican' movement who view this with smug satisfaction. Partially explaining SF and 'republicans' buying into the agenda to import more and more Non EU into Ireland.

There'll be a fair few who will rue the day they were lead down that path.

Can see why Labour are pushing it, look at all the Labour elected reps in urban areas.

Cant understand why SF are committing cultural hara-kiri, maybe Marxism is a bigger motivator than republicanism